I just atended the west yellowstone expo this last weekend, and stopped by to watch the races, what happened to the sport? I stopped racing snocross in 2002, and had raced at west yellowstone since 1994: there used to be over 100 racers in the sport class, and now there wasn't even 60 racers all together; Did the sport just die out? it's to bad one of the best tracks i've seen built at west and no one to ride on it...
west yellowstone.what happened to r sport?
- Thread starter lostNthesauce
- Start date
That is what we all would like to know. We would like to find out why people are not racing and what would bring them back. Why did you stop racing lostnthesauce and what would it take to get you to start again?
We have been racing since 1998 and it has changed alot. It's not just in the West, when you go back to a National the numbers are down there too (racers and spectators alike).
Any suggestions out there as to what could be done to get people back into (or start) racing?
We have been racing since 1998 and it has changed alot. It's not just in the West, when you go back to a National the numbers are down there too (racers and spectators alike).
Any suggestions out there as to what could be done to get people back into (or start) racing?
I personally I don't know if there is any one answer to what is happening to our sport. I think alot comes down to that it is just getting way too expensive. Now that fuel is over 4 bucks a gallon it really has us reevaluating what we are going to do next season if we race at all. It will be a very hard decision, but in the end the bank account decides for us. Also I have heard rumor that WPSA is in the process of folding unless someone comes along and saves the circuit financially. Once again-money!
I think there are several things that can help save our sport. One-the manufacturers need to quit the limited build sleds. I don't know if this is ISR or the Big 4, but we need to make it where Joe Consumer can buy his race sled right off the showroom floor and race it instead of him having to special order it after he has been accepted to the race program. Look at motocross-I can go buy the same bike that Bubba or Ricky are racing from my local dealer. I don't have to special order the bike or be accepted to a race program. Another thing that the manufacturers aren't helping out with is entry level sleds for our future riders. Polaris and Arctic Cat haven't built an entry level sled since 2003. Ski-Doo has been the only one and then you are spending a lot of money to take what is really a trail sled and try to make it fit a race application and lot of times that sled can't take the abuse that you give it. Once again look at motocross-all the bike manufacturers have entry level bikes you can buy from your local dealer. I think ISR and the insurance some how needs to help in this area also because we all know that fan cooled sleds are not what most consumers want to buy so the Big 4 don't want to build those sleds just for racing. I would think the manufacturers, ISR and the insurance could come up some type of govenor or restrictor that could be used on the same liquid 600s that the upper classes are racing.
The other thing I think would help is do like back in the '60s and '70s with oval racing. My dad said that there used to be one governing body and divisons under that. Maybe with WPSA on the way to a new owners or restructuring maybe this is the time for all the circuits to come together and work together to save the sport. My dad said that they had a National Body with a Eastern, Central, Western and Alaska divisions.
One last thought I have is which I know is almost impossible, but limit the distance a person has to travel to race. I don't know if that is even possible, but try to centralize the race locations. For us right now one of our largest expense is fuel and it is only getting worse! The other thing that I think would help is to hold races in major metro areas-More spectators and hopefully more racers. I think that the larger metro areas would give the sport more publicity which would equal growth!
Just a penny for my thoughts!
I think there are several things that can help save our sport. One-the manufacturers need to quit the limited build sleds. I don't know if this is ISR or the Big 4, but we need to make it where Joe Consumer can buy his race sled right off the showroom floor and race it instead of him having to special order it after he has been accepted to the race program. Look at motocross-I can go buy the same bike that Bubba or Ricky are racing from my local dealer. I don't have to special order the bike or be accepted to a race program. Another thing that the manufacturers aren't helping out with is entry level sleds for our future riders. Polaris and Arctic Cat haven't built an entry level sled since 2003. Ski-Doo has been the only one and then you are spending a lot of money to take what is really a trail sled and try to make it fit a race application and lot of times that sled can't take the abuse that you give it. Once again look at motocross-all the bike manufacturers have entry level bikes you can buy from your local dealer. I think ISR and the insurance some how needs to help in this area also because we all know that fan cooled sleds are not what most consumers want to buy so the Big 4 don't want to build those sleds just for racing. I would think the manufacturers, ISR and the insurance could come up some type of govenor or restrictor that could be used on the same liquid 600s that the upper classes are racing.
The other thing I think would help is do like back in the '60s and '70s with oval racing. My dad said that there used to be one governing body and divisons under that. Maybe with WPSA on the way to a new owners or restructuring maybe this is the time for all the circuits to come together and work together to save the sport. My dad said that they had a National Body with a Eastern, Central, Western and Alaska divisions.
One last thought I have is which I know is almost impossible, but limit the distance a person has to travel to race. I don't know if that is even possible, but try to centralize the race locations. For us right now one of our largest expense is fuel and it is only getting worse! The other thing that I think would help is to hold races in major metro areas-More spectators and hopefully more racers. I think that the larger metro areas would give the sport more publicity which would equal growth!
Just a penny for my thoughts!
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metro areas = more dealers = more riders and more fans. more sponsors so the racers dont have to take the burden of keepin the circuit running.I also use to race but having to miss work on friday every week to make it to the sign ins and then paying up to 100$ a class just gets to a guy
when we first started snocross (mid ninties) racing there were a lot of trail sleds racing the course and then they would go trail riding later. In Pro-masters classes there were 440 to 700s (I don't remember 800s yet)... there were a few jumps but juniors and women were not allowed to jump and it was optional for masters and sport classes... then the jumps got bigger and I remember trail sleds started disappearing because of bent tunnels and injuries. We left after multiple injuries to three of our team (severe broken leg, a knee, and a fx back).. plus we got too old and the every year purchase of a purpose built sled.. got too expensive. mike
Money, Money, Money....
The sleds also got too specialized. Like Plumnuts mentioned, back in the day, you could take a trail sled and go out there and do well. Sleds advanced so far that they turned into one trick ponies. No one says you have to update every season, but most people gave up on that when they were getting stabbed in the wallet when they had to give away the old iron to buy new. I had a lot of fun racing, but my decision came down to my responsibilty at work, and the fear of not making it there Monday morning and being functional.
Snocross is a great sport, but it fell on it's own sword with the technological advancements, IMO.
The sleds also got too specialized. Like Plumnuts mentioned, back in the day, you could take a trail sled and go out there and do well. Sleds advanced so far that they turned into one trick ponies. No one says you have to update every season, but most people gave up on that when they were getting stabbed in the wallet when they had to give away the old iron to buy new. I had a lot of fun racing, but my decision came down to my responsibilty at work, and the fear of not making it there Monday morning and being functional.
Snocross is a great sport, but it fell on it's own sword with the technological advancements, IMO.
I thank you for the comments on why people are not racing, but so far only SnoXDad has any suggestions as to what can happen to turn it around.
We really need ideas on how we can change it and I am sure there are alot of them out there. Help?
We really need ideas on how we can change it and I am sure there are alot of them out there. Help?
K
kssnow987
Well-known member
When did your sled go down, before racing started or during qualifying? That would make a difference.
As KSSNOW said, it is timing. If you are signed up to race and something happens that you cannot, the rulebook states that you contact the officials BEFORE 3:00 pm on Saturday in order to receive a refund.
Did you contact the officials before 3:00 pm on Saturday? If you did, then you would be entitled to a refund.The rulebook is there for the racer so there is not mis-understandings.
Did you contact the officials before 3:00 pm on Saturday? If you did, then you would be entitled to a refund.The rulebook is there for the racer so there is not mis-understandings.
I've been a promoter for sno-x in Wisconsin for 5 yrs. now.
I agree with snox dad on many points
The "one off" race sleds have hurt the sport-
The new 600's was a step in the right direction but they still are very expensive
Still going to cost alot to trail convert one- add oil injection, still need 92-93 octane fuel, big tank, not to mention the Polaris 600 will still have crank issues if trail ridden due to the speed of the waterpump and not having oil injection
1 7/8" track not very trail friendly
My suggestions-For sleds
1)Use a consumer production sled as the race sled, comes with big fuel tank( not a weight issue, just put less fuel in it). Plus then it's ready for cross-country
2) Comes with oil injection, allow them to take it off if they really want to
3) Go back to a 1 1/4" track
4) Shocks- have 2 models available, 1 with decent shocks and 1 with race shocks or all come with decent shocks and offer an affordable shock upgrade kit from the factory for those racing them
5) Only allow stock skis-another $300-$400 expense
6) Maybe even ban studs-everyone would be in the same boat. Or at least with a 1 1/4" track they'd be alot less $$
For promoters/factorys
1)There needs to be another sanctioning body for insurance
Ins. is very expensive thru ISR, that cost is passed onto racers ($15 ins. fee)
2) Get the factories to help out the "feeder" circuits, without ISR sanctioning they won't, I've tried
3) Lower race fees- fees have increased ALOT in the last 10 yrs., I believe that has drove alot of people out of the sport. As entries go down fees are increased even more to make up for it, then entries go down again
5) Be racer friendly-listen to riders input, it's been working for us
6) One day races- saves racers alot of $$. Motel/hotel fees, meals, etc. We've run as many as 250+ entries thru in a day. Other circuit around here is racing two 1/2 days at best, sometimes done by 1-2pm each day
7) Offer enough classes to give everyone a place to race- beginners, trail sled only, mechanics. We even did a Mom's race that went over well
8) Average rider can't even bother doing a National- Sport riders at National are guys that are running Semi-pro and sometimes even Pro at regional events
9) Give racers their payout before they leave the track, has been an issue this year- Some racers haven't seen a dime this year
RACERS-
1) Support the small promoters that are trying to give you an option. They have the same expences but try to hold races on a shoe string budget
I agree with snox dad on many points
The "one off" race sleds have hurt the sport-
The new 600's was a step in the right direction but they still are very expensive
Still going to cost alot to trail convert one- add oil injection, still need 92-93 octane fuel, big tank, not to mention the Polaris 600 will still have crank issues if trail ridden due to the speed of the waterpump and not having oil injection
1 7/8" track not very trail friendly
My suggestions-For sleds
1)Use a consumer production sled as the race sled, comes with big fuel tank( not a weight issue, just put less fuel in it). Plus then it's ready for cross-country
2) Comes with oil injection, allow them to take it off if they really want to
3) Go back to a 1 1/4" track
4) Shocks- have 2 models available, 1 with decent shocks and 1 with race shocks or all come with decent shocks and offer an affordable shock upgrade kit from the factory for those racing them
5) Only allow stock skis-another $300-$400 expense
6) Maybe even ban studs-everyone would be in the same boat. Or at least with a 1 1/4" track they'd be alot less $$
For promoters/factorys
1)There needs to be another sanctioning body for insurance
Ins. is very expensive thru ISR, that cost is passed onto racers ($15 ins. fee)
2) Get the factories to help out the "feeder" circuits, without ISR sanctioning they won't, I've tried
3) Lower race fees- fees have increased ALOT in the last 10 yrs., I believe that has drove alot of people out of the sport. As entries go down fees are increased even more to make up for it, then entries go down again
5) Be racer friendly-listen to riders input, it's been working for us
6) One day races- saves racers alot of $$. Motel/hotel fees, meals, etc. We've run as many as 250+ entries thru in a day. Other circuit around here is racing two 1/2 days at best, sometimes done by 1-2pm each day
7) Offer enough classes to give everyone a place to race- beginners, trail sled only, mechanics. We even did a Mom's race that went over well
8) Average rider can't even bother doing a National- Sport riders at National are guys that are running Semi-pro and sometimes even Pro at regional events
9) Give racers their payout before they leave the track, has been an issue this year- Some racers haven't seen a dime this year
RACERS-
1) Support the small promoters that are trying to give you an option. They have the same expences but try to hold races on a shoe string budget
K
kssnow987
Well-known member
I can appreciate what you have done to help the sport of snocoss IRACE and motomom163. But people try to compare Motcross with Snocross and you can't. I don't want my Son racing a 700 Dragon with a 163" track. It won't survive. Last weekend at West Yellowstone a guy signed up with an older IQ 600 trail sled(had the body style of a 900). He didn't even make it through qualifying. He should have been put in a beginner class. And I don't mean just put him in Sport. Those kids are would tear him up also. To make a snowmobile strong enough to make it on the track for a whole year it cost more than building a trail sled. Trail sleds are 12 grand now but nobody is saying how that is killing the sport. Maybe that has removed alot of people. I can only speak for Polaris, but, in the last few years they have really kept the cost of sleds down for the average racer(that's me). I think that there is more to the decline than just Sleds and ISR. The economy sucks, diesel cost now what we paid for race fuel (3) years ago and everybodys budget is stretched. I think it will turn around but it is going to take a few years. I'll be done by then and hopefully there are still hard working promoters like you guys to kept it going for the next generation of racer.
T
Trinity Taz
ACCOUNT CLOSED
This sport can be compared to a bee hive:
there's lots going on on the inside...everyone has a common goal, that is , to enjoy the outdoors(the honey) and beat old man winter at his own game. We don't look out much and wonder why no-one ever comes in to play.
People's view from the outside is a little different:
there's a lot of buzzing going on and everyone is going in different directions doing different things and it looks like confusion at best. They don't know were making the sweetest honey (snowmobiling is some of the best enjoyment to be had on terra-firma). When someone tries to come in to the sport, they have no coaching and end up getting stung by an overcharging, lying dealer somewhere looking to make an easy buck on a dummy.
The thing is, we need to swing the doors of this sport wide open so the public can see inside and taste the honey...you know, the reason we spend all the big bucks in the first place.
When was the last time Tucker Hibbert, for example, used his mike time at a supercross to promote the sport? Is he ashamed of it or is he embarrassed to tell the world about his passion for snowmobiling? His dad would be ever so proud if he did, as he has dedicated his life to making this sport better.
What we need is to invite others to the sport that have a high profile in the public eye that can share their newfound love for the sport with others.
Someone needs to write a book about snowmobiling, one that describes the sport in an easy to understand, responsible way. This book would sell in large volumes if written right, you know it.
Simply put, our sport lacks icons visible to the outside world.
Anyone have Will Smith's phone number, I think I'll give him a call and invite him snowmobiling.
there's lots going on on the inside...everyone has a common goal, that is , to enjoy the outdoors(the honey) and beat old man winter at his own game. We don't look out much and wonder why no-one ever comes in to play.
People's view from the outside is a little different:
there's a lot of buzzing going on and everyone is going in different directions doing different things and it looks like confusion at best. They don't know were making the sweetest honey (snowmobiling is some of the best enjoyment to be had on terra-firma). When someone tries to come in to the sport, they have no coaching and end up getting stung by an overcharging, lying dealer somewhere looking to make an easy buck on a dummy.
The thing is, we need to swing the doors of this sport wide open so the public can see inside and taste the honey...you know, the reason we spend all the big bucks in the first place.
When was the last time Tucker Hibbert, for example, used his mike time at a supercross to promote the sport? Is he ashamed of it or is he embarrassed to tell the world about his passion for snowmobiling? His dad would be ever so proud if he did, as he has dedicated his life to making this sport better.
What we need is to invite others to the sport that have a high profile in the public eye that can share their newfound love for the sport with others.
Someone needs to write a book about snowmobiling, one that describes the sport in an easy to understand, responsible way. This book would sell in large volumes if written right, you know it.
Simply put, our sport lacks icons visible to the outside world.
Anyone have Will Smith's phone number, I think I'll give him a call and invite him snowmobiling.
R
Rob1334
ACCOUNT CLOSED
I believe that they need to be able to make this more available on a local basis, without all the travel. Even if it isn't getting the biggest numbers, how about having more than one race weekend a year, how about a series compitition at the track like the dirt slingers have in the summer? That wayy you aren't buying a purpose sled for three races out of the year. And I agree, make a factory sled, that falls under certain requirements that is trail worthy, keep the cost down, and get back to the fun side of the sport.
Due to the large sanctioning of all the events, it ran the only sled race we have ever had out of our town, a hill climb up the local ski hill. Fun to watch, cheap to enter, anyone could enter it if they passed inspection, I even rode it with a '98 skidoo 583, most fun I ever had. Sanctioners found out about it, took it away.
I love watching it on tv, and there is definatley a following in the sport. It is possible to build factory trail/race sleds at a cost that is affordable, these manufacturers are killing themsleves limiting the sport of snocross.
Due to the large sanctioning of all the events, it ran the only sled race we have ever had out of our town, a hill climb up the local ski hill. Fun to watch, cheap to enter, anyone could enter it if they passed inspection, I even rode it with a '98 skidoo 583, most fun I ever had. Sanctioners found out about it, took it away.
I love watching it on tv, and there is definatley a following in the sport. It is possible to build factory trail/race sleds at a cost that is affordable, these manufacturers are killing themsleves limiting the sport of snocross.
Polaris 1334,
How did sanctioning drive a race away?
There is ins. that doesn't require sanctioning that is alot more affordable, I use it. You just need to follow the safety requirements as far as track and safety gear riders are required to wear.
Anyone interested in this ins. pm me
It's unfortunate that alot of the promoters that were doing "grass roots" races are no longer holding events cuz they can't make ends meet. Alternatives give riders options and help keep price of racing down, monopolies give free reign to charge whatever you want and treat your customers any way you want.
The economy and fuel prices have an impact with the travel that is required however, #'s of racers at events went down well before the price of fuel went up and economy got bad.
There's alot of things that come into play- nice to see input from those connected to the sport. Voicing opinions is a step in the right direction for changing things. I'm sure there's alot of people who have read this without posting how they feel/ideas.
How did sanctioning drive a race away?
There is ins. that doesn't require sanctioning that is alot more affordable, I use it. You just need to follow the safety requirements as far as track and safety gear riders are required to wear.
Anyone interested in this ins. pm me
It's unfortunate that alot of the promoters that were doing "grass roots" races are no longer holding events cuz they can't make ends meet. Alternatives give riders options and help keep price of racing down, monopolies give free reign to charge whatever you want and treat your customers any way you want.
The economy and fuel prices have an impact with the travel that is required however, #'s of racers at events went down well before the price of fuel went up and economy got bad.
There's alot of things that come into play- nice to see input from those connected to the sport. Voicing opinions is a step in the right direction for changing things. I'm sure there's alot of people who have read this without posting how they feel/ideas.
R
Rob1334
ACCOUNT CLOSED
Sorry, should have been more specific.
A group took over the event from us saying that they could make it more popular and get more riders by getting it sanctioned. That group ran off after getting the OK, and here we are stillw aiting to hear from them, three years running now. I'm sure they have a great system setup, but when the sanctioning body comes in and cuts down the event we have and promised to improve it, and in a round about way ended up ruining our fun. I guess it isn't the sanctioning but the sanctioning body that ruined it for us, and yes, the grass roots was way better atmosphere thatn anything they could put together for us. Rode early on, sat on the hill side drinking beer and eating brats, I don't think anyone was dissapointed at the end of the day(unless you wrecked, smile).
I think what really hurt them was trying to make it so big so fast that the endless planning never got anything off the ground. Word of mouth was all they needed the first time and they had I bet 800 people out there. I don't care about purse monies, where I finish, etc. I'm out there to have fun, and thats what snowmobiling should be.
A group took over the event from us saying that they could make it more popular and get more riders by getting it sanctioned. That group ran off after getting the OK, and here we are stillw aiting to hear from them, three years running now. I'm sure they have a great system setup, but when the sanctioning body comes in and cuts down the event we have and promised to improve it, and in a round about way ended up ruining our fun. I guess it isn't the sanctioning but the sanctioning body that ruined it for us, and yes, the grass roots was way better atmosphere thatn anything they could put together for us. Rode early on, sat on the hill side drinking beer and eating brats, I don't think anyone was dissapointed at the end of the day(unless you wrecked, smile).
I think what really hurt them was trying to make it so big so fast that the endless planning never got anything off the ground. Word of mouth was all they needed the first time and they had I bet 800 people out there. I don't care about purse monies, where I finish, etc. I'm out there to have fun, and thats what snowmobiling should be.
IMO what has hurt snox so much has been the cost of everything involved. The cost of the sleds and also the cost of getting yourself there and even the entry fees are getting too much. The amount of money it is taking just to get to a race and enter is the main reason I quit. If the cost ever goes down i will for sure go at it again but untill then i will just stick with motocross.
It is getting to be if it is not already a rich mans sport.
It is sad to see it but the sport is almost dead. Back in 2002 MN regionals had 120 races per round with 3 rounds a weekend. Now they have maybe 60 at the most. The cost of sleds, registrations, and gas have all caused this. Injuries may also helped out. I have raced snocross since 98 and this could well have been my last year. I think the sport grew too fast, there is such a difference in funds between the top and bottom teams. Who wants to get in when you know you have to race people with unlimited funds in the sport or even beginner classes?
One issue is the aging population of motorheads that snowmobile, its an expensive sport at any level and finding younger riders to buy into the expense it tough, and tougher to buy and maintain a race sled. Same 20 year old can finance a Moto X effort for about 1/3 the money, and be competative.
For sno x to make a come back it has to evolve back to a grass roots sport, local races, run what you brung, tracks that don't have MONSTER jumps, flexible schedule to accompdate weather, easy format for clubs or promoter to operate. None of these issues are friendly to the scattered few intense racers still making an effort. TV won't make the sport, big sponsers won't make the sport, more intense organization won't make the sport. Gotta get back to a 5 hour every other Sat sport at the nearest resort. Everybody cuts a few laps and goes home.
Almost all the motor sports are suffering the same, TOO BIG / TOO EXPENSIVE/NO LOCAL SUPPORT issues. The little fun tracks are gone, the fun is gone.................THE WHOLE SPORT IS GONE.
For sno x to make a come back it has to evolve back to a grass roots sport, local races, run what you brung, tracks that don't have MONSTER jumps, flexible schedule to accompdate weather, easy format for clubs or promoter to operate. None of these issues are friendly to the scattered few intense racers still making an effort. TV won't make the sport, big sponsers won't make the sport, more intense organization won't make the sport. Gotta get back to a 5 hour every other Sat sport at the nearest resort. Everybody cuts a few laps and goes home.
Almost all the motor sports are suffering the same, TOO BIG / TOO EXPENSIVE/NO LOCAL SUPPORT issues. The little fun tracks are gone, the fun is gone.................THE WHOLE SPORT IS GONE.
