Weight loss on my 13 XM

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Ive talked to a lot of guys about this the past couple years, and the best thing ive seen is powder coat in the black hammer. Total PITA to tear the sled down, besides not everyone is down for black parts, not to mention the fact that powder coating ovens can destroy the integrity of the material. Its the type of black I use on some of my arms just for that reason, but only the cromoly. I think anything you apply in a spray form will have to be reapplied frequently. With technology as advanced as it is its just a matter of time before something super user friendly and effective comes along. Hurry up and wait! JMO Thanks!
Dan

 

[pepperhouse]

Why doo or any of the sled manufactures haven't started coating parts with hydrophobic coatings ie tunnels,rails, a-arms at factory I don't get. What an easy "new" feature to sell with no retooling costs.

This year I'm trying the between the lines running board coating inside my tunnel. See if it holds up. If not going to just wrap inside of tunnel with vinyl or uhmw film.

 

[AndrettiDog]

Matt,

Why not dump the e-start and get Doo's pull start kit? That sounds like a big savings there. Also, I thought the Floats were heavier than the stock shocks, is that not the case?

I think the XM seat is very comfy but surely someone has some savings in aftermarket seats (maybe Skinz or Wasatch).

To me there comes a point where you are just done. $245 on Ti bolts for 1.2 lbs seems like the line for me. I get it and I think it is cool, but I'd rather increase the power to weight ratio and spend the money on performance mods like a brand new turbo!

Cool to see what you've done. You're close to Pro weight with Doo power.

 

[Matte Murder]

Thanks. Man I love the E start. I have had a ton of issues with my right shoulder and neck. I can ride all day and get sore but bounce back for the next days ride. Pull start my sled (the ETEC has a pretty stiff pull but at least you only have to do it once) 25-30 times a day and my neck is effed for a week. For 10 lbs I will take the E start but I get crap for that all the time. The Ti bolts don't seem to be worth it unless you do them all. On the cat it's 5lbs and they are about $500 for the BDX kit. Seems like $100 a lb is about what it costs overall. I wouldn't do it on a stock or near stock sled but when you are going full retard like I am ( I know, never go full retard) it all adds up. The big ones first for sure. Also, I am a big guy, 6'5" and about 225-230 so i give up 50lbs to most of the guys I ride with some it's more like 80lbs. It is really hard to ride around 80lbs.

 

[Rotax_Kid]

Ive talked to a lot of guys about this the past couple years, and the best thing ive seen is powder coat in the black hammer. Total PITA to tear the sled down, besides not everyone is down for black parts, not to mention the fact that powder coating ovens can destroy the integrity of the material. Its the type of black I use on some of my arms just for that reason, but only the cromoly. I think anything you apply in a spray form will have to be reapplied frequently. With technology as advanced as it is its just a matter of time before something super user friendly and effective comes along. Hurry up and wait! JMO Thanks!
Dan

Thanks for the Info Dan!

I tried a few silicone based hydrophobic coatings a few years ago. Between two tunnels, I tested 4 different products. I approached a few companies, after stating my cause, they offered to give me some sample product in return for some test data. In the end none of them really helped. The product is actually fairly dense. As soon as it starts to wear, it comes off exponentially. I managed to get close to 500 miles on that tunnel before the product was pretty much gone. I wouldn't recommend anyone trying this stuff and hoping for a solution.

Without risking sounding like a geek, to find a good solution, a guy needs to do a bit of homework and look at this from a different angle. Why does snow stick to aluminum? Likely because of a combination of a high thermal conductivity and frictional factors. Make a barrier to reduce these factors and you'll have something that will shed snow quite easily. No different than why your tongue sticks to metal...the moisture freezes because of the metals high thermal conductivity and it's ability to dissipate heat.

I'll quit rambling and sorry for derailing this thread, but I've been interested in this for a few years now and after some experimentation, started thinking about the science behind it.

 

[Matte Murder]

Rotax that is not a derail. The 50-70lbs of snow that stick to a sled should be counted as the RTR weight. Anything to get that weight off is probably cheap and massively important. Thanks

 

[storm trooper]

Thanks for the Info Dan!

I tried a few silicone based hydrophobic coatings a few years ago. Between two tunnels, I tested 4 different products. I approached a few companies, after stating my cause, they offered to give me some sample product in return for some test data. In the end none of them really helped. The product is actually fairly dense. As soon as it starts to wear, it comes off exponentially. I managed to get close to 500 miles on that tunnel before the product was pretty much gone. I wouldn't recommend anyone trying this stuff and hoping for a solution.

Without risking sounding like a geek, to find a good solution, a guy needs to do a bit of homework and look at this from a different angle. Why does snow stick to aluminum? Likely because of a combination of a high thermal conductivity and frictional factors. Make a barrier to reduce these factors and you'll have something that will shed snow quite easily. No different than why your tongue sticks to metal...the moisture freezes because of the metals high thermal conductivity and it's ability to dissipate heat.

I'll quit rambling and sorry for derailing this thread, but I've been interested in this for a few years now and after some experimentation, started thinking about the science behind it.

Yup. That's why I'm thinking plastidip may work. As test at least. If its not tough enough box liner coating should do the trick. If you have never used or heard of plastidip, check it out. Lots of cool applications. Lots of videos on YouTube.

 

[Matte Murder]

plastidip is going to be heavy? I bet 6-8lbs to cover the whole inside of a tunnel. I think a thin sheet or UHMW might work too. Wish I could get a CF tunnel, they work awesome for shedding snow.

 

[bnorth]

plastidip is going to be heavy? I bet 6-8lbs to cover the whole inside of a tunnel. I think a thin sheet or UHMW might work too. Wish I could get a CF tunnel, they work awesome for shedding snow.

My rt is a full CF chassis and it still holds quite a bit of snow in the tunnel.

 

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Matte, I will have a new product announcement maybe as soon as late tonight on here. Its actually an addition to whats already there but wont say until I finalize and can get pics. Top secret stuff you know. Ive had them on several sleds the last couple years, but it was so much extra fiddling, and added to the cost just a little of an already expensive kit I just didn't put them in. I guess your thread inspired me...lol. With the manufacturers closing the gap it was also just demanded. Don't lose any sleep its not bigger than the new iphone. Thanks!
Dan

 

[winter brew]

Helium.

 

[alt]

Helium.

No but your getting warm... This is absolutely no fun when matte is not here to tease. Where the he!! does he go? This is his thread and he just comes and goes as he pleases. Anyway, didn't mean to completely direct the last reply to matte, but it is or must be his birthday. Ill see if I can get these pics on here, but im a little better with electricity and metal in my hand than the putor. Thanks!
Dan

 

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New 7075 aluminum rod ends. .25lbs each lighter 1/2lb per set to make it easy math for myself. Again I have several guys that have been riding with these for the past couple years including myself. Also modified the upper arm for the narrow stance to eliminate a binding issue for these Doo's. Not the thrusters for the space shuttle but every ounce counts. I will also be doing these for the Polaris Pro as well. Thanks!
Dan

 

[madsigntist]

Here's a suggestion: why not try a decal installed inside the tunnel, around the cooler to resist snow and ice adhesion?
As long as you prepped well prior to installation, it should hold up pretty well.
If you've had experience with a wrapped tunnel, you know that it makes a huge difference in residual snow and ice adhesion/build-up.
High gloss material is going to shed/resist more than others. Slicker the better.
Really anything that will break the thermal bond attraction of the cold AL will help.
HDPE and UHMW are amazing at this, but mounting it inside of the tunnel really isn't going to work.
I am going to try some different things this year on my sled.
Options are laminated wrap material, clear bra and un-laminated wrap material.
Added weight should be minimal.
But I also want to see what the Rustoleum product will do to.

 

[off trail mike]

Rotax that is not a derail. The 50-70lbs of snow that stick to a sled should be counted as the RTR weight. Anything to get that weight off is probably cheap and massively important. Thanks

Hey Matte,

Great point about snow being part of RTR weight. I have a post over on TY about weight gain from snow accumulation. I did a test by putting 6 plastic tote covers underneath my MTX to catch all the melt water coming off the sled after a day of riding. Not really surprising that the gain was around 50 lbs, and totally biased to the rear.

But it does show how fixing an issue with ice buildup can save a lot of weight. On the MTX there is an area between the A-Arms notorious for ice build up and by putting in a $2 piece of foam eliminated a 10 pound block of ice.

I think there are also pretty big differences in rear suspension designs and their "ice retention". Would be curious to compare, but hard to figure out which one has the best design. Cleaner is better for sure, so I'd put Timbersled up there.

OTM

 

[Idaho Slim]

I am at a reduction of 38 lbs from my new XM 163 project sled so far. I have Alt Impact narrow front A-Arms (btw Dan is one of THE BEST in customer service out there!), Timbersled rear with Fox Floats rear, Pipe insulation and HPS muffler.

Am I missing your posts, but I did not see that you removed the stock suitcase (-12 lbs.). Ah, wait, you did a full SLP kit??????

p.s., by just swapping out with an HPS and ceramic coated the stock pipe, you lose 15 lbs. Not the 12 you are saying with SLP. IMO, the SLP is a mistake. If you have already bought it, I hope it works good for you and would be interested on your performance gain (which I think will be nil). SLP exhaust just has never been proven to be an improvement over stock or HPS.

 

[zEEx]

I have not done this but, being a aircraft refinisher Teflon coatings are used considerably in high wear area's i.e. leading edge slats and flap surfaces. Teflon applied to any parts, tunnels etc. would be great for snow ''slipping'' off. They trade off is these coatings are heavy!!

 

[i'llDooit]

my best guess for snow elimination would be a powder coating that is strong and will not fail over time. maybe a hybrid type of powder coating that has silicone or Teflon infused with it?????
we need a chemist... wheres walter white?

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

I know its a pro but you could do the same.
Chromoly exoskeleton with hdpe insert.

 

[Matte Murder]

Slim I'm running teh full SLP set up on one sled now. It's well made, sounds great(just slightly louder than stock but a "better" sound especially at 7500 plus). The problem is its costing power. We have to run less weight in the clutch. I'm also doing Trygstad 872 BB on both of these sleds and he only uses the full stock exhaust. Says ALL aftermarket exhaust parts cost power. We have also seen running issues with the HPS cans. Codes, idle issues, poor throttle response etc. Sucks as the exhaust is easy, cheap weight loss. I'm going to test the Diamond S can on the hill.