As long as he's not out testing his theory it's all good.
MD.
MD.
Wear Sunscreen!
- Thread starter MtnDoo
- Start date
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stingray719
Well-known member
LOL! When you can't make your point attack the other party. Glad to see you gave up.
Incorrect. (ironically)
Putting 3-4 sleds on a loaded slope at the same time is a recipe for body bags.
Multiple triggers, more weight, movement & exposure.
I've offered you resources to reference your flawed theory.
Rather than using the resources, you choose to continue to flap your jaws in ignorance.
Keep yer friend's batteries fresh & wear sunscreen!
You're going to need both.
MtnDoo
http://nsidc.org/snow/avalanche/
8. Tips for avalanche survival
Before crossing a slope where there is any possibility of an avalanche, fasten all your clothing securely to keep out snow. Loosen your pack so that you can slip out of it with ease and remove your ski pole straps. Make sure that your avalanche beacon is on and switched to "transmit" rather than "receive." Cross the slope one at a time to minimize danger.
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If humans are involved with an avalanche, the humans are at fault.
To be fair, I'll give Stingray719 some props for his correct statement:
<<Your avy gear is not a magic shield, it only increases your chances of survival.>>
Too many people assume otherwise.
Think of your ave gear as a hockey goalie.
He's only effective if the rest of the team actually shows up to play the game.
Now to be realistic, think of your ave gear as an 18" tall hockey goalie.
MD.
To be fair, I'll give Stingray719 some props for his correct statement:
<<Your avy gear is not a magic shield, it only increases your chances of survival.>>
Too many people assume otherwise.
Think of your ave gear as a hockey goalie.
He's only effective if the rest of the team actually shows up to play the game.
Now to be realistic, think of your ave gear as an 18" tall hockey goalie.
MD.
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P Money
Well-known member
HA, I don't give up on beliefs my friend, I was busy having sex and other important stuff... I believe I have said enough, and others that know what they are talking about have said enough, and I realize that you are the only one that feels you are correct, so I'm done with this I hope you learn the easy way...
But please, anyone reading.g this for info, do your own research on how to approach Avy terrain and don't listen to my dumba$$ and any of my info I have to offer... sorry I tried to help.
Wear sunscreen, maybe you'll listen to that?
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stingray719
Well-known member
Interesting that you put words in my mouth I did not say. I never said anything about crossing a loaded slope, I just don't do it. I was talking about driving by under an avy area. The idea of stopping and all going across at the same same speed spaced apart is to MINIMIZE movement and NOT disturbing the snow any more than possible.
But hey, you have all the answers.....good luck!
This has degenerated into a Jr high argument now so this is my last post on this thread.
I realize that you dont get it, However, what you are suggesting will put EVERYONE in your party at risk not just the one crossing under it. That is all everyone is trying to say. That is what they teach at all avy classes. In fact they specifically say NOT to do what you are suggesting. I would stick to the beet fields if I were you!
Lemme take a swing at this.
If you & your group are in a position where you need to travel through what could be a debris field if the slope above lets go, there's one constant - risk. The snow above MIGHT slide.
That's the constant. You can't change that. Crossing below that slope MAY result in an avalanche - you've been playing this game long enough that I suspect you know that it is possible to trigger an avalanche from quite a distance away, and cutting the bottom of a slope is a good way to do it; kinda like taking a Jenga block out of the bottom of the tower; remove a bottom block, the weight of all above takes over.
So, crossing under an avy area, or, in your words, "driving by under an avy area" leaves you with two choices (beyond rerouting, looking for a safer route, etc).
1. Stop & cross as a group, the idea being that if it lets go, everyone can get on it & hopefully all make it across.
2. Stop, one at a time - one crosses, gets to the next safe zone, signals/radios for #2, who crosses, stops in safe zone, observes the next rider, etc etc etc.
#2 is the right answer. /spoiler.
#1 SOUNDS sorta reasonable at first, but there are TONS of flaws with it.
- ALL parties in your group are exposed instead of just one.
- If there IS an issue, NO ONE will be able to see the "last seen point," as everyone else in the group is focused on getting out of the way of the slide.
- If someone panics, pins the throttle & trenches, falls off, whatever, everyone behind is faced with going around or getting buried.
- "driving by under an avy area" means that there IS risk. It COULD slide. If there's a possibility (beyond random chance) that I'll get caught in a slide, hit by debris, I want all of the people I'm with watching me - and I want to be watching them so we have an idea of where to start searching.
Think about it; four guys, all nose-to-tail, slope lets go, everyone pins it, by the time you get across, stopped, turn around to look at where the rest of the group is, all you're going to see is a giant cloud of snow. You'll have NO IDEA how far across the guy who got hit was when he got hit. ALL YOU'LL KNOW is that he is not above the track. That's a lousy place to start looking; if the 4th guy got hit, the 3rd guy will not know WHEN #4 got hit, because HE'LL have been busy getting his butt across the hill and out of harm's way.
Make sense?
Doing it the other way, you've REDUCED risk - ONE person is at risk for getting hit, not four (or however many), everyone else is watching THAT person, someone can be looking up the hill & possibly SEE the slide coming, hopefully communicate with the person on the hill to get on it, if the person on the hill DOES get hit, the rest of the group has an idea of how far across the victim was, which makes searching more effective.
You cannot reduce the risk - if you're weighing these options, there IS a risk. You CAN reduce the NUMBER of potential victims. One at a time, rest of the party watches.
There may or may not be validity to having all four cross the hill. Impossible to judge, depends on snowpack, cohesion, etc etc etc. Impossible (!!!!) to say, so it reverts back to reducing the number of potential victims.
I was faced with a similar situation last Sunday - needed to cross under some decidedly scary stuff. Stopped my partner, rode across, ensured things were not moving, waved partner through. No issues. On our way back down, it turns out that our caution was warranted - a snowcat had followed us up the road, and sometime after the cat passed, the hillside above let go. See attached.
Had I been riding directly ahead of my partner, gotten to the safe zone and looked back, I'd have NO idea - the debris were about 50' across; did my partner get buried? Shoved off the side of the road? Safe but out of sight on the other side? I'd have had no idea.
One at a time makes the most sense. It really does; the only constant is that the hill above MIGHT slide, by doing it one at a time, you're limiting exposure (the constant IS exposure) to ONE person, not three or four.
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Zachcreek
Well-known member
I should have called this thread "Wear a condom"
I should have called this thread "Wear a condom, covered with sunscreen"
^^^ Problem solved... ^^^
