water to air intercooler

[fredw]

well i received my Barrel Style Liquid to Air Intercooler today and plan to install it soon, wanted to see what others are doing for the heat exchander...

i could indepently just use the front cooler down at the drivers on the etec, or second choice to tie in before cold water makes it to the motor

i think tieing it in just before the motor with a seperate 12v pump, might be the best idea

is there a desirable flow rate of coolant needed to run threw the intercooler for maximum effecieny?? on 350cf/m any one know of a tested pump

plan to tie in soon for next trip out

 

[TreeThrasher]

Ive done it both ways...you get maximum cooling from the separate heat exchanger but you will have some issues with the sled wanting too get hot. By just tagging in you will create very stable charge temps and a reasonable level.

Lots of flow through the intercooler seems best. I use a pretty beefy pump built by Bosch (dont have the number handy sorry)

 

[CBX]

For simple just tag it in. If this Etec turbo thing works this year i'm going to build one and use that tubing (extrusion?) with the fins on it, like the old rmks had. Run it under the running boards close to the track, and add two coolers on the tail section on both sides of the existing xp cooler, were the track doens't run. Just bridge across like the yammis over the OE cooler and loop back. Best of both worlds.

It would take a little bit of fab. I think i'd rivet the whole thing rather than weld. that way its all removeable. Plus, as a bonus you running boards would be thawed out some.

Frozenboost used to have a kit using a bosch pump on 12v. that would be my first choice. You could get charge temps around 30-50 deg. How cool (no pun intended) is that. I bet reeds will last alot longer also.

 

[badass1000]

I have ben wanting to put a water to air intercooler on my xp. I just can't decide. Obviously the intercooler would be nice performance wise. It will make more hp per lb of boost.
For now I think I am just going to turn the boost up another lb or two and run a little more race gas. then I don't have all the extra weight, and posible extra lag from having a intercooler. I would think the reeds would last longer with the cooler charge temps. definatly can't hurt.
Their are several posts in the arctic cat turbo section on water to air intercoolers.

I have ben trying to decide if I want to do a cold air intake. For now I am going to get the 2012 clutch gaurd. It is supposed to move alot of air. I have alot of venting and hopefully the gaurd drops the underhood temps a little. This year I am going to build a box to go over the turbo intake and cover it in prefilter material. Right now on the really light, deep, days it gets a little powder in the turbo when doing right sidehills. Sled sputters and bogs when it gets the powder in the turbo. I want to put a temp prob by the turbo inlet to see what the intake air temps are under the hood.

 

[fredw]

well that is my first concern, i really do now want my enging temp spikeing on pulls or running the risk of overheating, and do not want to add much weight, i might just tie into exsiting to start with

anyone have any ideas on parts and such for tieing in, pictures... thanks

 

[fredw]

little info on it

Barrel Style Liquid to Air Intercoolers are a proven and stealthy way to cool your intake air.

100% Lightweight aluminum, No Epoxy Used In Core

Recommended for up to 390 CFM and 270 HP
Pressure Drop: 1.1 PSI.
Core type: Tube and Fin
Air Inlet/outlet: 2.25"
Water Inlet/Outlet: 1/2" NPT Female
Maximum water/air pressure: 70 PSI
Core Size: 6" long x 4" (Endtanks add to length)

 

[badass1000]

sorry I can't help that much as I have not done it.
But tieing into the stock coolant before the motor would definatly be alot lighter without all the extra hoses, coolant, and coolers. Extra closed loop dedicated cooler would work the best, but be the heaviest.

Here is a good idea for a pump. frozenboost.com probably sells the same thing. Not sure what their price is.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-OEM...ubmodel:Lightning&vxp=mtr&hash=item43ab0053f3

I have heard to tie into the hoses before it goes to the motor. T in before the engine, put in a check valve so the water can only flow one way, then T in after the check valve for return from cooler. I would verify yourself, but this is what I remember from when I checked into it. Should have alot lower charge temps and be alot more consistent for tuning.

Something else that would work great would be to run the intercooler off of the front heat exchanger and motor off of the tunnel. I know hrp makes a front cooler delet and some have ran their xp without a front cooler.
My turbo xp seems like the tunnel is hotter then a NA xp. Seems like the snow melts off alot quicker then a NA xp. It has never overheated or had the check engine light come on from being too hot. I have rod with guys on the trail when it was hard pack and their stock xp's were overheating and mine was not. I have one of those billet thermostat houseings with the older rev thermostat in it. I believe the older rev stats open at 140 or so degrees and the xp stat opens at 160 degrees. I believe the xp has to run hotter from the factory then the revs to pass emisions. Not sure if that is all true. The billet houseing and rev stat seemed to help keep the sled from getting too hot and performance droping off like xp's are known for after runing them hard for a long time. I am runing a stock head with stock compresion.

Good luck and keep us updated. Can't wait to here your results on the reeds either. Too bad you don't have a set of rage cages with turbo reeds to try against all the other reeds in the stock cages.

 

[fredw]

i want the pump to work on existing power that the etec makes rather than adding a battery, is that possible??

 

[TreeThrasher]

Ya just tie it into the accessory port. Excessory port delivers 12V power, works great.

 

[spacehog21]

over 1 psi pressure drop is a lot

maybe look into a more efficient intercooler

the one I have is .1 drop - very efficient

The pump I have is the same one HM turbos company uses with their setup.

It has a lot of flow and runs on one or two amps. I would have to look at the numbers again to find the specifics. It is a magnetic drive pump that will not burn up the electric motor if the line freezes or particles get lodged into the drive section. It just kicks into free wheel until the blockage is addressed.

It moves a lot of fluid - plenty for cooling an intercooler


Fred did you ever put any holes in your three inch yet to help clear out the skid?

 

[Aerocharger_Brad]

Fred W.
We currently use Air/Water in 5 applications. We are also currently testing Air/Water systems on the e-Tec. An A/W system will ONLY be release if the testing performs within our design parameters. Our current system was not intended to have an A/W system because BRP had certain requirements for the system specific to the Race Team.

Current water pump is a Bosch pump. Be careful of the amps!

A 1.1 psi pressure drop is probably not accurate and is excessive.

Here are some of my calculations and assumption that may be helpful.

800cc E-Tec, 7000ft or 11.3psia, 34f Ambient air, 110f engine coolant returning from tunnel (from test data), Water temp on a dedicated system 32f (again from test data), 10psi, 1.88 P/R, 12.8afr, 72% compressor Efficiency, 70% intercooler efficiency, and .5 pressure drop.

No intercooler, 307cfm, T2 170f (Compressor Out), 170f Charge Temp, and 213hp at attitude not corrected.

A/W, 363cfm, T2 170f, 73f Charge Temp, and 251hp

A/W W/ engine coolant, 329cfm, T2 170f, 128f charge Temp, and 228hp

No boost A/W, charge temp 33f

No boost A/W w/ engine coolant, charge temp 87f

Max delta w/ engine coolant 41f

Max delta w/ closed loop coolant, 40f.

 

[Boyko]

A good water to air system is going to want more air out of your turbo


Note that this system mapped is a water to air system running a 4 stroke @ 300hp with a +100% intercooler efficacy. Part of the reason that I set it at +100 is because it is a propane system (cold vapor) and I am a dreamer……. Lol

The point, turbo maps graph a heated charge if you cool that charge you need more air flow out of the turbo, altitude also manifests the condition and the need of more air volume.

The turbo air flow for the turbo in the map is vary close to a garrett 2871

The maps are put together from BorgWarner MatchBot program.


The two maps are at 2500 and 10000 feet




2500 FEET

10000 FEET

The link is for the online program
NYTRO @ 2400
http://www.turbodriven.com/performa...wts=400&pt6_wd=83&pt6_wd2=74&pt6_wrsin=92044&


NYTRO @ 10000
http://www.turbodriven.com/performa...wts=400&pt6_wd=83&pt6_wd2=74&pt6_wrsin=92044&

 

[fredw]

few things that stand out with your post brad, i would of thought the collant coming back from the coolers would of been cooler than 110f, seams still very warm...

would you recomend the bosch pump or is it a issue waiting to happen??

seams the dedicated system is much more effecient than using the engine water, and worth the dedication of the cooler, do you feel the one rad is enought for keeping the motor cool enought

will the No boost A/W w/ engine coolant, charge temp 87f be a issue in throotle response?? or hessitation??

thanks for the great info, i think you just changed my decision

Fred W.
We currently use Air/Water in 5 applications. We are also currently testing Air/Water systems on the e-Tec. An A/W system will ONLY be release if the testing performs within our design parameters. Our current system was not intended to have an A/W system because BRP had certain requirements for the system specific to the Race Team.

Current water pump is a Bosch pump. Be careful of the amps!

A 1.1 psi pressure drop is probably not accurate and is excessive.

Here are some of my calculations and assumption that may be helpful.

800cc E-Tec, 7000ft or 11.3psia, 34f Ambient air, 110f engine coolant returning from tunnel (from test data), Water temp on a dedicated system 32f (again from test data), 10psi, 1.88 P/R, 12.8afr, 72% compressor Efficiency, 70% intercooler efficiency, and .5 pressure drop.

No intercooler, 307cfm, T2 170f (Compressor Out), 170f Charge Temp, and 213hp at attitude not corrected.

A/W, 363cfm, T2 170f, 73f Charge Temp, and 251hp

A/W W/ engine coolant, 329cfm, T2 170f, 128f charge Temp, and 228hp

No boost A/W, charge temp 33f

No boost A/W w/ engine coolant, charge temp 87f

Max delta w/ engine coolant 41f

Max delta w/ closed loop coolant, 40f.

 

[spacehog21]

Check out the Johnson magnetic drive pumps

made in Sweden

 

[dicey]

fred ive never tested the return but if you grab the return it feels rather warm, body temp around 98f 110f sounds right

 

[fredw]

etec fuel pressure

i been seeing on long wot runs that i would get a boggle, or miss, i have been thinking it has been to do with high charge temps

today i had a good discussion with another builder and he thinks it could be lack of fuel pressure causing the problem, i might have to install a fuel pressure gauge to see if its droping, has any others looked into this

also is there any info on some small heat exchangers that would fit under a running board, thanks

 

[Rocky]

high charge temp,,,rich condition from Etec seeing heat

 

[turbo800]

i been seeing on long wot runs that i would get a boggle, or miss, i have been thinking it has been to do with high charge temps

today i had a good discussion with another builder and he thinks it could be lack of fuel pressure causing the problem, i might have to install a fuel pressure gauge to see if its droping, has any others looked into this

also is there any info on some small heat exchangers that would fit under a running board, thanks

Maybe you could rob some from an old XLT...

 

[fredw]

we were out with kyle from tss, he had two etec turbos set up with their own air to water air boxs, they look real sweet, he dedicated the front heatexchanger to the air box and seen no engine overheating conditions over the day, and charge temps seam to stay in line all day

i plan to start on this install this week, but still have not found the right pump, does anyone have a model number or webpage for assisantence

 

[Aerocharger_Brad]

we were out with kyle from tss, he had two etec turbos set up with their own air to water air boxs, they look real sweet, he dedicated the front heatexchanger to the air box and seen no engine overheating conditions over the day, and charge temps seam to stay in line all day

i plan to start on this install this week, but still have not found the right pump, does anyone have a model number or webpage for assisantence

Bosch #0 392 022 002