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Wasted Votes?

I am still not for sure who will be on thet ticket in WY besides the obvious two. I like Ron Paul, but with the two party dictatorship he doesn't stand a chance. Only another reason why I am Independent.............:(
 
Gentlemen, in all seriousness you need to read up on the history of this issue. The popular vote is the WORST thing that could possibly happen to this country. Our country's founders were wise, brilliant men who understood that public opinion was volatile. We have survived for 232 years because we are a Republic and not a pure Democracy. The Electoral College was devised (along with the Senate: see Great Compromise) to specifically protect the interests of lightly populated states (like where you live & ride). If not for the EC Presidential elections would be decided by the 10 most populous states which happen to be overwhelmingly liberal.

So if you want your "western" way of life dictated to you by New York, New Jersey and Massachusettes etc. go ahead and persist with this utterly retarded idea.

No, that is not true. It was done because there was no technology to be able to accurately count each and EVERY vote. So they had a representative that would cast the votes for the state.

Now that we are able to accurately count votes and have the technology to share that information across the nation there is no need for the Electoral College.

The "highly liberal states" are the important states, the less populated states do not mean diddly to hopefulls.

On that note I do not think we should have a computerized voting system UNLESS the system produces a hard card showing the vote. Too easily comprimised
 
No, that is not true. It was done because there was no technology to be able to accurately count each and EVERY vote. So they had a representative that would cast the votes for the state.

Interesting point... I never thought of it like that.

The electoral college does give more say to the less populated states then a shear popular vote... but the difference as much as would be expected.


Interesting.......
 
Another reason for the electoral college is that voters did not know near as much about candidates in the first years of our country as they do now with TV, radio, internet, etc. They figured voters would not know enough about the candidates to vote accordingly. So the electoral college was formed so that votes could be cast by more informed people.

I love technology but these electronic voting machines made by private business' should not be used in our elections.
 
I'am not voting. i will vote for mccain and my dumbass wife will vote forosama, to cancel out my vote

All the more reason to do it. In your case a vote not cast IS a vote for Obama.

I'm in the same boat as you, but like South Park explained you'll always have to choose between a douche and a turd sandwich.
Right now I'm with Blu, I'm not voting cause if I vote Republican my wife will divorce me.

LIE!!! and if she'll divorce you over that then do you really want to stick around for the next little thing that PIZZES her off. I know your pain in a way my grandmother (diehard dem) won't even talk to me after she figured out I voted for Bush. It's been about 7 years now.

I hope you all are joking about the divorce part. :eek: Vote for whoever you want.

Exactly!!



X - like you mentioned MN got fed up with this BS and voted in Ventura. Not saying his term was the best thing for the state, but it made the other two parties take notice at how unhappy people were. Although I also think that Ventura was a lot more timing and a phenomenon like Obama Mainia than anything.

MN is becoming more and more of a swing state than it used to be. It has 1 Republican US senator and a Republican Governor. Last I checked the State legislature was pretty even but it's been a while.
 
I love technology but these electronic voting machines made by private business' should not be used in our elections.

It should be made by the gov't then? They just farm it out to private businesses anyways....

I think the hard copy receipt idea was good. That way if there is an issue, you only need to look at the cards and go back to the old method.

At least it would stop the whole hanging chad business.... Though I am sure the old folks in Florida would still find a way to screw it up..
 
It should be made by the gov't then? They just farm it out to private businesses anyways....

I think the hard copy receipt idea was good. That way if there is an issue, you only need to look at the cards and go back to the old method.

At least it would stop the whole hanging chad business.... Though I am sure the old folks in Florida would still find a way to screw it up..

Last time I voted was when I was in MN. (less than 2 years so don't flame me) and they had a fill in the circle and run it through the machine system. If you double vote it rejects it and you'd have to be a drunken chimp to vote for an unintended candidate. The Ballots are kept for hard copy backup and the machines are tested and audited immediately before and after the election. the punch card thing is so outdated it's ridiculous.
 
All the more reason to do it. In your case a vote not cast IS a vote for Obama.



LIE!!! and if she'll divorce you over that then do you really want to stick around for the next little thing that PIZZES her off. I know your pain in a way my grandmother (diehard dem) won't even talk to me after she figured out I voted for Bush. It's been about 7 years now.



Exactly!!



X - like you mentioned MN got fed up with this BS and voted in Ventura. Not saying his term was the best thing for the state, but it made the other two parties take notice at how unhappy people were. Although I also think that Ventura was a lot more timing and a phenomenon like Obama Mainia than anything.

MN is becoming more and more of a swing state than it used to be. It has 1 Republican US senator and a Republican Governor. Last I checked the State legislature was pretty even but it's been a while.



The problem with jessse was that it's always all about jesse. jesse had the political capitol to become the father of a new theird party in this country and he squandered it all on jesse.
 
Gentlemen, in all seriousness you need to read up on the history of this issue. The popular vote is the WORST thing that could possibly happen to this country. Our country's founders were wise, brilliant men who understood that public opinion was volatile. We have survived for 232 years because we are a Republic and not a pure Democracy. The Electoral College was devised (along with the Senate: see Great Compromise) to specifically protect the interests of lightly populated states (like where you live & ride). If not for the EC Presidential elections would be decided by the 10 most populous states which happen to be overwhelmingly liberal.

So if you want your "western" way of life dictated to you by New York, New Jersey and Massachusettes etc. go ahead and persist with this utterly retarded idea.



HERE HERE!! We have the crap government we have because not enough people vote. Voter apathy sends the signal to Washington that the public isn't paying attention so they're free to do whatever they want.

Vote your heart, vote for someone who's "good enough", or vote against someone you totally disagree with but get off your a$$ and vote.



This is a myth.
We have like 30 registered political parties in this country, but being a free society that encourages competition...the top two parties usually end up in the "championship game." Our whole society is a two party system---American League vs National League, AFC vs NFC, North vs South, East vs West etc. etc.

We have the same two parties because the essence of politics is compromise. When we vote we compromise. If our ideal candidate is not on the ticket we vote for the the one who's close, or we vote against the one we can't stand.


BRAVO! Took the words out of my mouth and added a couple that I didn't think of.

MHA - I highly doubt that what is now called the electoral college was designed because the limitations of technology. I would submit that it was a compromise worked out to keep the integrity of the election process and the office of President as pure, for a lack of a better word, as possible. I believe initially it was the job of the legislature to put forth an individual for President. However, seeing that a small group of people who meet regularly electing one of their own to the highest office might be construed as a little too cozy.

I can't disagree with your representational weighed avg though. Y'all in WY have a 171666:1 ratio and I (on the far left coast) have a mimiscule 662864:1 ratio.

One last thing as I head out for the day to reap yours and my sustainence fruit the vast fruited plain. If you feel your vote doesn't count I urge you to reconsider your "not voting" stance. The reason is that perhaps you have an arguement when it comes to the President, but typically the E.C. votes with the masses. Your vote does count on every other office. We elect judges and Legislators and School Boards and commissioners etc. These offices are really just as important because much of the "bureaucracy" is administered at the local level.

Good Day fellow citizens!
 
No, that is not true. It was done because there was no technology to be able to accurately count each and EVERY vote. So they had a representative that would cast the votes for the state.

Now that we are able to accurately count votes and have the technology to share that information across the nation there is no need for the Electoral College.

The "highly liberal states" are the important states, the less populated states do not mean diddly to hopefulls.

On that note I do not think we should have a computerized voting system UNLESS the system produces a hard card showing the vote. Too easily comprimised

There was this guy...Alexander Hamilton. Maybe you heard of him?

(Pasted from from historycentral.com)
The Electoral College was created for two reasons. The first purpose was to create a buffer between population and the selection of a President. The second as part of the structure of the government that gave extra power to the smaller states.

The first reason that the founders created the Electoral College is hard to understand today. The founding fathers were afraid of direct election to the Presidency. They feared a tyrant could manipulate public opinion and come to power. Hamilton wrote in the Federalist Papers:

It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations. It was also peculiarly desirable to afford as little opportunity as possible to tumult and disorder. This evil was not least to be dreaded in the election of a magistrate, who was to have so important an agency in the administration of the government as the President of the United States. But the precautions which have been so happily concerted in the system under consideration, promise an effectual security against this mischief.
(See All of the Federalist 68)

Hamilton and the other founders believed that the electors would be able to insure that only a qualified person becomes President. They believed that with the Electoral College no one would be able to manipulate the citizenry. It would act as check on an electorate that might be duped. Hamilton and the other founders did not trust the population to make the right choice. The founders also believed that the Electoral College had the advantage of being a group that met only once and thus could not be manipulated over time by foreign governments or others.
________________________________________________________________


Additionally, the greatest debates and dialog over the role of government were between Hamilton and James Madison. Hamilton and Madison disagreed bitterly over the role of the Federal Government but both warned in various essays and personal letters about the "...the vagaries of the opinions of men." and how it is "...easily inflamed".

Our country's founders were highly educated in history, politics and philosophy. The foundations of the system of government they devised, i.e. representative democracy, were anchored in a profound understanding of the successes and failures of those who came before them.

We don't have a direct democracy because they understood that direct democracies ultimately tear themselves apart. Technology didn't have sh!t to do with it.

Final thought every thinking American owes it to themselves to read the Federalist Papers. They are key to understanding how our country came to be.
They are not fun. In fact they are dry and text-bookish. The language is flowery as this was the style of the day, so it's a bit hard to follow sometimes but there are plenty of companion guides that explain them in plain English.
 
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I am going for Ron Paul. If everyone who really wants to vote for Ron and does, then it might make a difference. Why vote for the same old cronies? They say change but has the govt really changed?
 
The problem with jessse was that it's always all about jesse. jesse had the political capitol to become the father of a new theird party in this country and he squandered it all on jesse.

Yes he did! Now he's running around talking about the white house and babbling about 9/11 conspiracy theory.
 
good points made by all.i dont think it matters who you vote for as long as you vote. voting for the same thing or change or something different is the only way to have our voices heard.
 
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