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University of Wyoming mailing out survey **IMPORTANT**

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sled*dunk

Active member
Dec 3, 2007
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Rock Springs, WY
The University of Wyoming is mailing out survey's now, you may have received one yesterday? They are mailing out 1,000 to WY resident's and 1,000 to non-residents. If you receive one, please fill it out. Here is a letter explaining the survey:

Your Input Needed for Snowmobile Program Funding Plan

The Wyoming State Snowmobile Program is facing serious funding issues which must be addressed within the next year. I have been working with the Wyoming Department of State Parks and Cultural Resources, the State Trails Advisory Council, and WSSA over the past year to develop a new long-term plan; the next step is to put together proposals that will consider reductions in spending along with an increase in snowmobile fees to help make the Snowmobile Program sustainable going forward.

Over the past several years total snowmobile permit sales have decreased by about 8,000 resident/nonresident/commercial permits per year when compared to peak sales numbers back in 2003. This means that revenues are down by well over $300,000 per year while costs and grooming budgets have continued to increase. Additionally the Snowmobile Program has been receiving $400,000 to $700,000 per year in RTP grant funds, which comes from the federal gas tax paid on the fuel used in off-road vehicles like snowmobiles, for nearly 20 years; however the RTP program has expired and is unlikely to be extended by Congress. The bottom line is that a revenue shortfall of at least $400,000 – and potentially up to $700,000 to $1 million per year if RTP is not reauthorized – must be addressed since the Snowmobile Program must be self-supporting moving forward.

Between now and July 1 we will be developing several budget reduction scenarios. This will include identifying what budget reductions of $100,000, $200,000, $300,000, $400,000 and potentially up to $700,000 would look like on the ground, i.e. what areas and trails would no longer be groomed, what services would be reduced, what services would be totally eliminated, etc. While nobody wants to or is proposing today to make deep cuts, we need to know exactly what the Snowmobile Program would look like going forward if it comes to that. Most importantly, we need to know your thoughts on what costs and reduction in services you’d suggest or support. The other piece we’ll be working on is to identify if considering a snowmobile fee increase may be reasonable and supported by Wyoming snowmobilers. While no one is proposing any fee increase at this time, it will be difficult to address the overall funding issue without some increase in fees. To fully address the shortfall without making any cuts in grooming and other services would require increasing the annual fee to $60 or more – and I don’t believe anyone wants to see that happen. At the same time a fee increase of only $10 – from $25 to $35 – probably would not be sufficient without having to also make deep cuts in the Snowmobile Program’s
operating budget. A $20 increase – from $25 to $45 per year – would likely still require some cuts in services but perhaps help balance deep cuts with a mid-range fee increase. Again, we need your input as to what level, if any, fee increase may be acceptable to help keep Wyoming snowmobiling opportunities available and properly managed. If there is support for any fee increase, it will be packaged for consideration by the 2013 Wyoming Legislature; consequently July 1, 2013 is the earliest any fee increase could become effective.

As one part of this information gathering and planning exercise, the University of Wyoming will be mailing surveys to 1,000 resident and 1,000 non-resident snowmobilers around the end of March. If you receive one of these surveys in the coming weeks, PLEASE take the time to respond to the detailed questions and give us your feedback about future priorities for snowmobiling access and trails in Wyoming. This survey will be used to help gauge opinions about potential cuts in service as well as support or opposition to any potential fee increase.

I also invite you to contact me directly to express your ideas and opinions about what should be considered when the different levels of budget cut scenarios are developed; be assured absolutely everything is on the table and nothing is sacred or immune from potential cuts. I also want your thoughts and opinions about the need and appropriate levels for any fee increase. All input will be compiled to help the Department, Trails Council and WSSA develop a plan to take forward through the legislative process. Also be assured that all feedback I
receive will be grouped so individual responses remain confidential.

Please send your input to Trailswork@aol.com or fax written comments to 605-371-2262 by May 1. If you have questions about this planning process, also feel free to give me a call at 605-371-9799 or 605-212-9403.

I look forward to your feedback and thank you for your participation in this important planning process.

Sincerely,
Kim Raap, Trails Work Consulting


http://wyotrails.state.wy.us/press/InputNeededforSnowmobilePlan.pdf
 

shelbwyo

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Just recieved one of these letters a couple days ago, planning on filling it out this weekend.
 
M
Nov 27, 2007
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The program is too far gone and I doubt it could be self-sustaining as long as the state is running it. Let the clubs take over grooming and see how well they can handle it. I believe the clubs would have more interest in keeping the trails in good shape and could do it cheaper!
 
M

MNSnowCat

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Apr 13, 2009
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Comment on what? The only information provided is that they're "planning to make deep cuts" in hundreds of thousands of dollars from a budget of what? What are the premit numbers since 2003? Snowmobilers are being asked to offer opinions on a fee increase, but are completely uninformed based on the posted information. Shortsighted and unfair to the WYO snowmobiling community (residents and non-residents alike). I plan on writing to the "planner" and telling them the same.
 
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S

sled*dunk

Active member
Dec 3, 2007
132
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Rock Springs, WY
I would definately contact Kim Rapp. I was just asked to encourage people to fill out the survey, and I'm the only one (that I know of from my club posting) on Snowest. I admit all this political stuff gets me out of my comfort zone. My bad I know. I could not stay for the officers meeting at the WSSA meeting (at Fun Days). As I said, I am passing on the information I had...


Comment on what? The only information provided is that they're "planning to make deep cuts" in hundreds of thousands of dollars from a budget of what? What are the premit numbers since 2003? Snowmobilers are being asked to offer opinions on a fee increase, but are completely uninformed based on the posted information. Shortsighted and unfair to the WYO snowmobiling community (residents and non-residents alike). I plan on writing to the "planner" and telling them the same.
 

Dogmeat

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Just out of curiosity, why is UW involved in this ...? Who is managing this from UW's end?

I really hope its not some wildlife biologist from Oregon who is an 'associate adjunct professor' or some garbage like that if you get my drift ....

I mean shouldn't this be something that state representatives should be asking their constituents?
 

Wyorever

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and thus began the end of sledding in Wyo...

High fuel prices, high sled costs, higher permit prices. Sure some people will still afford it and continue to do so, but the sport is dying.
 

WyoRMK

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Laramie, Wyoming
Relax Everyone!

It has nothing to do with the Environmentalist. The study is being commissioned by the state trails, and WSSA. It is much the same as the study that was done int he early 2000's. It will look at that the snowmobile tourism brings to the state as a whole, along with what areas are favored to ride (areas you frequent). Also it will look at the hard facts like what you would be willing to spend to keep our trails in good shape.

Here is more info on the study and the current state of the trails program! (guess it is the same Doc that started the thread)
http://wyotrails.state.wy.us/press/InputNeededforSnowmobilePlan.pdf

If people want numbers on decreases in tag sales, I can dig them up, but the document outlines it pretty well!

Tag prices will not be the end of Snowmobiling, Gas prices may!
 

Dogmeat

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It has nothing to do with the Environmentalist. The study is being commissioned by the state trails, and WSSA. It is much the same as the study that was done int he early 2000's. It will look at that the snowmobile tourism brings to the state as a whole, along with what areas are favored to ride (areas you frequent). Also it will look at the hard facts like what you would be willing to spend to keep our trails in good shape.

Here is more info on the study and the current state of the trails program! (guess it is the same Doc that started the thread)
http://wyotrails.state.wy.us/press/InputNeededforSnowmobilePlan.pdf

If people want numbers on decreases in tag sales, I can dig them up, but the document outlines it pretty well!

Tag prices will not be the end of Snowmobiling, Gas prices may!

If this is being comissioned by the WSSA why is UW involved?

I still don't understand why the college, which we all know generally speaking has it out for anything that isn't a blatantly liberal cause, is even being involved with this .... I'm just incredibly leary of anything UW gets involved with like this with the crop of liberal transplant dumb****s that have run that place for the last 30+ years.

But, I do agree with you, the price of the tag won't have any effect whatsoever on people sledding or not sledds.

The $26 wyoming tag I have on my sled is, literally, the cheapest accessory ON my sled. No BS.

The UT tag I have on my sled was $61, the ID tag was $26 iirc, the MT tag was $20 iirc, the CO tag was $26 iirc .... I would gladly pay more for a wyoming tag if it meant the trails in the wyoming range and the snowies were actually groomed ...and all the money that was paid into those tags STAYED PART of the state trails program and not be hijacked like it has been in colorado and other places.

:)
 
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WyoRMK

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UW has a analytical department that does surveys and stuff like that. If. Nothing more I would guess they get a break on price or something.
 
W

wyosleder

New member
Dec 10, 2008
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please fill out the form.

If you do not want to ride don't fill it out. The state trails program works very hard on all of the trail systems in Wyoming. the sticker sales are down by the thousands resident and non resident. its a money thing and sticker prices will have to go up to support the trail systems and grooming. please fill out the form if you get a letter and voice your opinion good or bad.
 

tmk50

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I did not get a survey so I will blab on the internet instead.

I am sorry that the funding is in the crapper, but I also see all of the tourism money that snowmobiling brings in to Wyo. As Dogmeat mentioned, the $25 sticker is usually the cheapest part of the trip for most people. Gas, oil, diesel, parts, food, beverage, lodging, etc.

I see the Wyoming state tourism and local tourism (Carbon and Albany Counties) advertising in "back east" snowmobile magazines as well as SnoWest.

Should some of the state tourism money go towards the trails, or should it all come from the stickers? Have all other sources of funding been looked into? The tourism groups have even used the SnoWest rankings in their advertisements and guess what - trail grooming conditions are part of those rankings.

To the state: If you bump the stickers up $10 each, what does that buy us? Does $10 groom 5 miles of trail? Put this in language that we can understand, not just telling us how much will be cut if RTP funds are lost.

Please open up the books and tell us what the actual operating costs are and what the # of miles groomed estimates would be for each sticker $ increase amount being considered.
 
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wyosleder

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Dec 10, 2008
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sticker sales

It costs about 20$ per mile to groom the trails.
The state road tax pays state trails 15.00 per sticker for the trail program.
The fed road tax pays about the same per sticker.
The price of a sticker has not gone up for several years and it needs to.
If we loose the federal funding the sticker could go up to 75-100 dollars.
Join your local club and support your sport.
 
M

MNSnowCat

Member
Apr 13, 2009
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MN
I did send an e-mail to Kim and got a positive reply regarding my request for additional information. Waiting to hear back...

It's so true, the sticker is the cheapest thing on the sled, but we so often hear the "woe is me, we're so poor" cry from government bodies it's hard not to be skeptical of their intent.

Up here, the state charges you registration and a trail sticker, then paves your snowmobile trails for bicycles and rollerbladers (who pay nothing to support the trail system) and then restricts YOU from riding on them.:face-icon-small-fro
 

tmk50

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It costs about 20$ per mile to groom the trails.
The state road tax pays state trails 15.00 per sticker for the trail program.
The fed road tax pays about the same per sticker.
The price of a sticker has not gone up for several years and it needs to.
If we loose the federal funding the sticker could go up to 75-100 dollars.

Join your local club and support your sport.

Thanks for the info.

Stickers have been the same price forever (I can't remember them being cheaper than $25)

IMO that if the cost of the stickers is raised too much some people that do not ride often will quit registering sleds and risk the ticket. There is a balance point somewhere - I guess that is the tough part.
 
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Dogmeat

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Thanks for the info.

Stickers have been the same price forever (I can't remember them being cheaper than $25)

IMO that if the cost of the stickers is raised too much some people that do not ride often will quit registering sleds and risk the ticket. There is a balance point somewhere - I guess that is the tough part.

The people who already DONT register their sleds are sure not gonna register them if they won't pay what it costs already ..... This mentality a lot of people have really pisses me off. These are usually the same folks who can't figure out why we should avoid cutting our own trails on 4-wheelers, etc ..... so screw em, I say fine them even more.

%95 of everyone who sleds can afford a $50 sticker. Thats the cost of one tank of gas just to GO sledding. The stickers are the cheapest part of this whole deal, and as TMK50 mentioned, I can't recall a time in my life they've ever been less than $25 ..... so this would be one 'tax increase' or whatever I'd be more than happy to pay as much as it makes me cringe to admit wanting and/or willing to pay more or something, but I think this is just a sign of the times more than anything.
 
M
Nov 27, 2007
85
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Unless colorado and montana raise their fees, Wyoming could stand to lose sticker sells. The program has no money mainly because of mismanagement, theft and fraud. It has been a little over ten years sense stickers went from 15 to 25 and sticker sells have fallen sense that time and probably not all do to sticker price. Family of 4 plus spare sled = $125 now up it to $50 you may price families out of a Wyoming trip. Ask Kim Rapp how much the program is paying him and UW to ask us to tell them how to fix the program! How much more staff to manage same amount of trails as 15 years ago. I know costs have gone up but the waste has gone up even more. I was hoping the clubs would ask for a full audit so snowmobiliers can see exactly where all the money comes from and where it is going. RTP and other outside funding may still be here next season so some cuts or increases may be premature.
 
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B

Boonpub

Member
Aug 31, 2010
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Unless colorado and montana raise their fees, Wyoming could stand to lose sticker sells. The program has no money mainly because of mismanagement, theft and fraud. It has been a little over ten years sense stickers went from 15 to 25 and sticker sells have fallen sense that time and probably not all do to sticker price. Family of 4 plus spare sled = $125 now up it to $50 you may price families out of a Wyoming trip. Ask Kim Rapp how much the program is paying him and UW to ask us to tell them how to fix the program! How much more staff to manage same amount of trails as 15 years ago. I know costs have gone up but the waste has gone up even more. I was hoping the clubs would ask for a full audit so snowmobiliers can see exactly where all the money comes from and where it is going. RTP and other outside funding may still be here next season so some cuts or increases may be premature.

Wow...Lots of little bombs there.
Let me start by saying neither Kim nor the UW are paid out of the program fund. I believe Kim's work is covered by general funds while the UW work (which is actually called an Economic Impact Study and is a lot bigger than this issue) comes from RTP administrative funds.
As for "calling for an audit" that is exactly why Kim is involved right now. The WSSA and clubs have been asking for this information for some time. The state brought in Kim to help achieve that goal, as well as to improve the program and it is heading in a much better direction because of it.
As for why the program funds are down -there is a whole myriad of reasons. Not the least of which is the fact that registration numbers declined significantly over the last 10 years - from a high of just over 40,000 in 02-03 to 31,413 in 09-10. At $40 per sticker (registration and state gas tax) that difference equates to almost $350,000. For a budget that was roughly $1.7 million this year, that is a significant impact. Not to mention grooming costs have continued to rise thanks to the increase in fuel, equipment costs, etc. (I will assume medbowman can probably attest to this?)
Sadly there was a problem with management but that problem is gone and it certainly isn't the root cause of the financial position. Do the math - the problems are pretty simple to see.
All of this stuff has been covered in WSSA meetings, printed in the Wrangler and - I would guess - covered in a lot of club meetings for the last year. If you really want to help - show up and help or at least try to provide some meaningful feedback. There are a whole bunch of folks who are donating a hell of a lot of time to work through these issues for your benefit. Sitting back and throwing rocks doesn't exactly make anything easier.
Jeff Moberg
WSSA President
 
M
Nov 27, 2007
85
54
18
Call it what you want (rock throwing or just the truth). When the state took over grooming the costs skyrocketed and only part is because of fuel and maintenance which the Tuckers were supposed to save on both. I gave my input and if they let the clubs take over I'd be happy to help mark trails and run part of the grooming. If fees are raised to $40 it will be just as easy for alot of people who snowmobile in southeast Wyoming to just go to Colorado. Even if it gets raised to $40 it won't cover the hole they are in. I didn't run the program into the ground, the state did so don't tell me I should shut up and help more. I don't have a problem with Kim Rapp, when he ran the program I believe it had a surplus but if they are going to pay him that much hire him as program director.
 
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