Un-sticking stuck sled

[Merlin]

Experience & technique will make a world of difference for sure. Knowing what approach to take based on how many helpers are present(if any). Knowing how prepare the area around the sled. Knowing how to roll the machine. Knowing how much throttle to give & when, etc.

The better the rider you become the less you'll get stuck but that is stating the blatantly obvious.

Regardless I still carry:

- Shovel(mandatory part of avalanche gear)

- Good quality saw(folding style is my preference)

- Snowbungie(saves jerking & subsequent stress to arm / shoulder joints when doing the simple ski tug)

- Rope ratchet(for tensioning Snowbungie when no help is available & other recovery procedures)

- 3/8 Polyester rope X 50'(rarely ever use but have just in case)

 

[Solarguy]

Great advice, we carry the same but seldom ever use any of it to get unstuck anymore. Mostly we stomp a bit around the sled, reposition it a bit and ride it out, or roll it over to get the nose across or down the slope. Snow bungees are good for extra ski pull power, we used them a lot in our first couple of years. Good idea to always carry rope, saw, shovel, tow strap, small tarp, fire starter, first aid kit, tie wire, duct tape, tool selection and anything else that might be needed in an emergency including your normal backcountry ski gear.
We have used our extraction gear more than once helping others recover sleds that had ghost rode or otherwise ended up in locations where the sled was wrecked beyond rideable or no way to ride it out.
One great thing about most sledders in the backcountry is they/we help peeps in need. Have Fun, sleds open up an incredible world for the skier. As stated in previous posts, many of us previous hard core backcountry skiers have fallen in love with the challenge and excitement of riding sleds in the terrain we loved to ski. I never thought it would happen to me but we choose to ride our sleds instead of ski on a lot of top shelf ski days because the sledding is to good!

 

[CO Powder]

wasn't the point of the thread to get ways to help get unstuck... until someone is a good enough rider to not have to worry about it as much? The apparent answers given seem pretty damn obvious.

Seems to me... the arrogance perceived is dead on. Not everyone has ten thousand dollars laying around to just go out and buy and new sled, because it's a little better.
Not everyone has the ability to just run out and spend as much time as they please out learning to ride. Learning to ride doesn't just happen, it takes time, effort, money and snow... especially with the piss poor snow fall we're having in my neck of the woods this year.


I just think it's kinda sad that someone who's not a major sledder comes here to find the experienced riders and asks for a little advice about the best equipment and basically gets told that their sled is crap and/or they just don't know how to ride.

great way to help and encourage the noobs to the sport guys.

Having trouble with reading comprehension again huh pepe?

You can go out and buy a sub $3000 M7 that is a fairly light, real mountain sled. I said get a decent sled, I don't even know what the OP has for sleds, I don't think it was ever mentioned. They may have decent sleds already???

My point still is, learning to ride is safer than all of the junk you could ever hope to carry on a sled. If you intend to ride deep into the back country on a sled it is your responsibility to know how to ride it. I think it is very poor judgment to go into the back country unprepared. Packing a bunch of ropes and tools doesn't prepare you, those are the band aids of unpreparedness.

Yes, you have to commit some time to learning. I bet they spent lots of time learning to ski well before going into the back country on ski's. Why is this any different?

I think the arrogance comes from non sledders who watch a little and think it is going to be easy. Nothing easy about wrestling a 500lb bear in the woods.

 

[Solarguy]

Having trouble with reading comprehension again huh pepe?

You can go out and buy a sub $3000 M7 that is a fairly light, real mountain sled. I said get a decent sled, I don't even know what the OP has for sleds, I don't think it was ever mentioned. They may have decent sleds already???

My point still is, learning to ride is safer than all of the junk you could ever hope to carry on a sled. If you intend to ride deep into the back country on a sled it is your responsibility to know how to ride it. I think it is very poor judgment to go into the back country unprepared. Packing a bunch of ropes and tools doesn't prepare you, those are the band aids of unpreparedness.

Yes, you have to commit some time to learning. I bet they spent lots of time learning to ski well before going into the back country on ski's. Why is this any different?

I think the arrogance comes from non sledders who watch a little and think it is going to be easy. Nothing easy about wrestling a 500lb bear in the woods.

I couldn't agree more as I was that guy and it could of cost my wife and I our lives. Thank you for a really well worded reply to pepe.

 

[BikerPepe`]

well... I re-read and your right, there is some decent advice. I was just hoping to see more detailed info over fond memories of the stucks from winters past and the exp./sled comments.
not my thread though... was just hoping to pick up a tip or two more than I've already read and re-read. anyway... I'm not here to kick snow in anyone's face but I did seem to provoke a few more detailed responses, so that's good.

still... my bad. I may have over-stated my case. Cabin fever I 'spose. Apologies.

 

[CO Powder]

It is pretty hard to give tips when you can't see the stuck, every one is different. If you have trenched out trying to keep moving, you need to get the track back up on the snow. If alone, deploy the shovel and dig around the sled, lift the track out. Now you can turn it or roll it without fighting the track buried in the snow. You can sometimes roll the sled on its side and pack snow under the track where you trenched, then roll it back up.

Most of the time you are going to need gravity on your side so get it pointed downhill or at least flat. With the right machine and experience often you can get them going uphill but if this is new to you save your self the hassle of digging twice.

If you have it up against a tree, one ski on each side, you can try to lay the sled on its side and pull it back from the tree sliding on the side panels. You can also spin the sled more easily on its side in many cases. Get it pointed the right direction then stand it back up.

Do not try and wrestle the beast while it is still buried. Even ropes and winches will have a hard time with a buried sled. Get it dug out so the skis and track are on top of the snow. This is a good time to employ the sno bungee. We use the hand/hook version and always hook it on the ski loop, never had an issue in over 10 years of use. When trying to ease the sled out of the bomb hole, ease it out, do not grab all of the throttle and dig a new hole. Burp it out a few feet at a time with somebody giving the ski a pull.

I hope some of that is helpful. Now all we need is enough to go get stuck in!

 

[Merlin]

If you have trenched out trying to keep moving, you need to get the track back up on the snow. If alone, deploy the shovel and dig around the sled, lift the track out. Now you can turn it or roll it without fighting the track buried in the snow. You can sometimes roll the sled on its side and pack snow under the track where you trenched, then roll it back up.

Most of the time you are going to need gravity on your side so get it pointed downhill or at least flat. With the right machine and experience often you can get them going uphill but if this is new to you save your self the hassle of digging twice.

If you have it up against a tree, one ski on each side, you can try to lay the sled on its side and pull it back from the tree sliding on the side panels. You can also spin the sled more easily on its side in many cases. Get it pointed the right direction then stand it back up.

Do not try and wrestle the beast while it is still buried. Even ropes and winches will have a hard time with a buried sled. Get it dug out so the skis and track are on top of the snow. This is a good time to employ the sno bungee. We use the hand/hook version and always hook it on the ski loop, never had an issue in over 10 years of use. When trying to ease the sled out of the bomb hole, ease it out, do not grab all of the throttle and dig a new hole. Burp it out a few feet at a time with somebody giving the ski a pull.

I hope some of that is helpful. Now all we need is enough to go get stuck in!

^^^That^^^ is all excellent advice & is exactly how we do it as well!

Having tried many other ways to extricate over the years most people end up employing these same tactics with success.

The only thing we do different now that what we used to is packing the Rattler Snowbunjes. Sure saves sore elbows & shoulders. In most cases you get your machine all dug out & then call your buddy over to do a couple of ski tugs with the Snowbunje while you run the throttle(carefully) & then you're out(Note: you may have to man the Snowbunje if you've been getting stuck more than your fair share! LOL)

 

[ryanjeri]

I have a little experience at getting unstuck, though I believe I am a professional at getting stuck.
It happens, even the best riders get stuck, and experience dictates what happens after.
There has been a lot of great info in this thread, though one thing I would suggest is changing the type of rope you’re carrying. I have been fortunate not having to use rope often, though I do carry 25’ of it, as well as most everyone in our group. We carry 3/16 AMSteel-Blue rope. The 3/16 rope weighs 1 pound per 100 feet, it is overkill with an average strength of 5400lbs. In hind sight we should have gotten 7/64, at .3lbs per 100 feet, with an average strength of 1600lbs. Making a short reply long, the rope it very light, and very strong.

 

[BikerPepe`]

Not a regular stuck... but, we had to make a run up to retrieve a sled one of our friends rode off the road and down the cliff. Slammed the front into a tree after missing another. Mess up his sled pretty good. Had to head up the next day to get it out.
We brought a come-along and needed it... with 4 guys and 2 sleds too boot.
I like to keep the come-along in the truck now days... just incase.

 

[Deep Powder Guy]

We have a long standing tradition in our group....He who gets stuck the most buys the dinner & beer.....you will be surprised how quickly you learn to pull out so you sled is never pointing up hill.

DPG

 

[CO Powder]

We have a long standing tradition in our group....He who gets stuck the most buys the dinner & beer.....you will be surprised how quickly you learn to pull out so you sled is never pointing up hill.

DPG

I always liked having a BIG pair of pink panties along. If you get stuck and need help, you wear them until the next guy gets stuck and needs help. Cheaper, and much more humbling.

Fun to have some incentives for sure, other than just the general pain and agony...

 

[Mase]

Check out post #7 in the thread linked below. That guy has put together a Zdrag extraction pulley system that weighs 13 ounces, is slightly larger then a baseball, and can lift his motorcycle into a tree if need be. I'm in the process of assembling the components, and expect the total price to be around $60.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=817736

We had a situation last year where my son and his friend were stuck for almost 2 hours when they took our trail sleds somewhere they shouldn't have on Vail Pass. A group of guys was finally able to "carry" the sleds out.

 

[loneski]

Thanks again for all the great suggestions.
FYI...I'm on a 2009 RMK 600 and my buds on a Yamaha Phaser 500, but, he was on a Yamaha 1000, and one day, not so long ago...
I had moisture/ice in my fuel line and after a day of primo skiing, my machine wouldn't start. We did all the right stuff to troubleshoot, but it was getting dark so I skied out behind his 1000.
It snowed six inches that night and he went back in by himself the next day to take further advantage of our most excellent uphill ski trail and maybe get a face shot or two.
Now if I remember right, I was still outside in the hot-tub when I heard him come out a little before pitch black that evening.
He had been stuck, and not through his own fault.
His snowmobile's skis had iced up and when he went to leave it veered off the trail and the resistance to going forward caused a complete burial of the rear end.
I wasn't there, but he had a come-along and after a couple hours had his snowmobile up the hill and into the fading sun light where it thawed out.
So now he packs a cobra snobunje and a powder jack, and a come along, the first two thanks to suggestions from you guys.
I'm carrying small petzl double pulleys, 'biners, and dyneema, sort of like the motorcycle guy from another forum, and a cobra and rope ratchet.
So while this really happened - the circumstances of warm snow on top of cold snow, parking in the shade, and icing associated with that - these conditions were unique to that day, at least for where we go around here.
We got my snowmobile out the next day, thanks to a warming trend and a night above freezing. It started right up.
I was using gas with ethanol. Now I use only premium straight up, and add a little Star Tron and premix to my gas...and no further problems.

 

[CO Powder]

Thanks again for all the great suggestions.
FYI...I'm on a 2009 RMK 600 and my buds on a Yamaha Phaser 500, but, he was on a Yamaha 1000, and one day, not so long ago...
I had moisture/ice in my fuel line and after a day of primo skiing, my machine wouldn't start. We did all the right stuff to troubleshoot, but it was getting dark so I skied out behind his 1000.
It snowed six inches that night and he went back in by himself the next day to take further advantage of our most excellent uphill ski trail and maybe get a face shot or two.
Now if I remember right, I was still outside in the hot-tub when I heard him come out a little before pitch black that evening.
He had been stuck, and not through his own fault.
His snowmobile's skis had iced up and when he went to leave it veered off the trail and the resistance to going forward caused a complete burial of the rear end.
I wasn't there, but he had a come-along and after a couple hours had his snowmobile up the hill and into the fading sun light where it thawed out.
So now he packs a cobra snobunje and a powder jack, and a come along, the first two thanks to suggestions from you guys.
I'm carrying small petzl double pulleys, 'biners, and dyneema, sort of like the motorcycle guy from another forum, and a cobra and rope ratchet.
So while this really happened - the circumstances of warm snow on top of cold snow, parking in the shade, and icing associated with that - these conditions were unique to that day, at least for where we go around here.
We got my snowmobile out the next day, thanks to a warming trend and a night above freezing. It started right up.
I was using gas with ethanol. Now I use only premium straight up, and add a little Star Tron and premix to my gas...and no further problems.

There is so much wrong in this post, it probably isn't even worth responding to. I just want to wish you and your ski partner GOOD LUCK, because you are going to need it judging by that story.

 

[The Fourth Wolf]

Of course this thread turned into a pissing contest about avalanche response...

How to get un-stuck?

One of the first responses nailed it--get a capable sled and learn how to ride it. Meaning, there's a sled specific technique that riders must learn before they can get to all the places their sled is potentially capable of taking them.

So, from my own extensive experience of getting stuck here's my 2c.

Carry a shovel and a saw--you will, at some point need to dig (since your riding/skiing in the hills get avy training if you haven't already) AND you will, at some point, get hung up in trees or brush

SnoBungi--Great device and worth the $75

Recognizing an imminent stall and turning out-- Every sled has a tipping point where you begin losing momentum rapidly making an uphill stuck inevitable. You need to get your machine horizontal as soon as possible.

Pin & wiggle--most late model mountain sleds will work their way out of most stucks with some degree of incline. You rock the sled back and forth while pinning the throttle WARNING: for some stucks this technique makes thing worse

Ski-pull & Pin--On a coordinated count the rider who stuck the sled pulls on a ski loop while your buddy pins the throttle (the SnoBungi is employed here). First, using your legs, you stomp the snow between the skis down towards the front of the track

One-man Ski-pull & Pin--Carry 12 feet of string tied to a wide, thick rubber band. Wrap the rubber band around the end of the throttle paddle, make your way to the front and pull the ski-loop as you use the string to pull the throttle. If you have a SnoBungi, attach it, load some spring tension on it first and then pull the string.

The Roll--eventually, everybody sticks one pointed uphill. If you're not trenched too badly you scoop your arms up under a ski (at the spindle) and push with the legs (like a squat at the gym). A sled has a conical profile and will eventually swing downhill given enough rolls. If you are so deeply trenched that the sled is vertical or nearly so, then you work your way up to the front and push it over backwards. WARNING: Depending on how high and steep you are this technique can lead to your machine ghost-riding to an ugly death. MAKE SURE YOU PROCEED CAREFULLY SO YOUR SLED DOESN'T ESCAPE YOUR GRASP.
You may find yourself holding on to the rear bumper for dear life trying to stop the sled's downhill slide OR quickly crawling your way up onto the seat.

Always pull a stuck sled from the front. The only thing you should and can do in the back is get the tunnel and track up out of trench--it's murder on the back and normally takes 2 or 3 people.

ALWAYS take your helmet/goggle and coat/jacket off BEFORE working on a serious stuck since you're most likely going to sweat your *** off. EXCEPTION: If your performing a Roll and a ghost ride is likely, then keep your gear on.

 

[CO Powder]

Unfortunately what it is really about is a couple of guys that do not know how to ride and don't really care to bother with that route. They want block and tackle, they want to REALLY work for it against a TON of good advice in this thread. They go out alone, meaning most of the advice would never help them anyway. The only prudent answer is to learn to sled commensurate with the terrain and buy the proper equipment, which most would agree is not a Phaser 500.

They learned how to ski. I bet they have almost new ski equipment. They want to sled but somehow cheat the learning and proper equipment part in favor of what seems like the easy way. Good Luck, that is what they are going to need.

 

[blzntrlss]

Sno bunjie, shovel, saw, highlift sled jack, retired climbing rope- 20'.

 

[Limbo]

The one thing I will say is I have never seen any of this "extrication" gear used as part of a normal riding day let alone carried on a sled. Shovel and a decent saw are all I have ever used to extricate a sled that will still run from stucks, treewells....etc.

My words of wisdom, "shovel more than you think you need to" nothing is worse than almost getting a sled out only to end up with it even deeper in the hole.

*Generally the group I travel with does have the some of this equipment in the truck or trailer to extricate a sled if the worst case happens and the sled is not mobile under its own power, so far this hasn't been needed.*

 

[skibreeze]

The guys claiming that extra tools or gear are never necessary may not be accounting for other people and their physical capabilities. I am an expert at getting stuck and learned that I cannot get myself out of every stuck by myself 100% of the time.

The first thing with our group is to carry radios and try to stay in the same areas together, that way we can assist each other.

By far the most common ways for me to get unstuck are 2 ways. 1 is rolling my sled over to get it back down hill. Sometimes I will do this with the track spinning to cut out the upper side of the trench to make it easier to roll. 2 is stomping down snow on the downhill side and pulling the front around, then pin and wiggle.

With 2 people everything is easier and then a ski pull and pin and wiggle. A lot of the time when doing this, pin an wiggle, I'm pushing the sled, not standing on it. This can allow the sled to pop up out of the whole easier.

When I know that getting stuck is inevitable, I also try very hard to get sideways and pull the sled over so that it is halfway rolled over already. Another is if I'm pointed straight uphill, I leave it pinned and try to pull the sled over backwards.

 

[CO Powder]

Personally I have abandoned the pin and wiggle, and have been trying to get others to avoid it as well. If you have help, use the person to pull the ski and ease the sled out a few feet at a time until it is out of the hole. Saves the second round of digging when pin and wiggle inevitably fails. This seems to work a LOT better on the new sleds, the M-Cats do not get up on the snow as cleanly as the newest chassis sleds and require more digging and pulling, maybe some pinning to get out.