Turbo RT : going to do it!
- Thread starter pyromarty
- Start date
I'm running the 034motorsports AIC, it's fully mapable and boost relative tunable with the laptop so i figured i'd have precise control over injector pulse width and injector phase. i don't have the injectors in yet, they will go between the airbox and the throttle bodies. i'll have the mounts and rails fabbed up in the next week.
I'm running 0-30 synthetic oil right now, and installing a pressure bypass/regulator for the turbo oiling.
I'm running 0-30 synthetic oil right now, and installing a pressure bypass/regulator for the turbo oiling.
Well finally i got the injectors, fuel pump and fuel rail extrusion. so later this week i can hopefully
get them in, re-design the fuel system finish the wiring and be all ready to rock this thing!!
i'm going to mount the injectors through the back of the airbox aiming at the throttle body openings,
the fuel rail will be on the back side of the injectors and plumbed in with the stock injector rail, it's a
return type system with an adjustable pressure regulator set to about 58psi. more pics when i get it installed.
get them in, re-design the fuel system finish the wiring and be all ready to rock this thing!!
i'm going to mount the injectors through the back of the airbox aiming at the throttle body openings,
the fuel rail will be on the back side of the injectors and plumbed in with the stock injector rail, it's a
return type system with an adjustable pressure regulator set to about 58psi. more pics when i get it installed.
good deal, keep the updates roaling, I really like the idea of your build.. cant wait to see it on the snow.
Ya!! update time!! 
So here's the secondary injectors mounted in the bosses and into the airbox, and
connected with the fuel rail. making the counterbores in the fuel rail and the bosses
i used a centering reamer for a .5409 bore which is pretty damn close to 14mm
so turning the bosses on the lathe, then cutting the angle on the chopsaw mounting them in the air box and hooking up the rail! it's sweet that the injectors are right in the opening of the throttle bodies.
if anyone is interested i can take some pics of how i made the injector boss on the lathe.
fuel rail was purchased from AZ speed and marine,
http://www.azspeed-marine.com/furaex.html
injectors, fuel pump, and clips from Ballenger motorsports,
http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pr...ucts_id/448?osCsid=sb65nksp5kv814pq4c2dc9sbk3
So now all that's left is to get the fuel system plumbed, get my wideband sensor in, finish the wiring and get my exhaust components ceramic coated.
i will be sure to take some video when i test and tune this thing!
So here's the secondary injectors mounted in the bosses and into the airbox, and
connected with the fuel rail. making the counterbores in the fuel rail and the bosses
i used a centering reamer for a .5409 bore which is pretty damn close to 14mm
so turning the bosses on the lathe, then cutting the angle on the chopsaw mounting them in the air box and hooking up the rail! it's sweet that the injectors are right in the opening of the throttle bodies.
if anyone is interested i can take some pics of how i made the injector boss on the lathe.
fuel rail was purchased from AZ speed and marine,
http://www.azspeed-marine.com/furaex.html
injectors, fuel pump, and clips from Ballenger motorsports,
http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pr...ucts_id/448?osCsid=sb65nksp5kv814pq4c2dc9sbk3
So now all that's left is to get the fuel system plumbed, get my wideband sensor in, finish the wiring and get my exhaust components ceramic coated.
i will be sure to take some video when i test and tune this thing!
I
INKEDRIDER
ACCOUNT CLOSED
any updates!!
That was the last update for a while man! i'm just waiting on my Wideband, Fuel pressure reg, and boost controller!
they should all be here on wed!
ahhh i can't wait!
then i can finish it and start tuning this weekend, and then i hope i can
get the clutching dialed in.
stay tuned in the next 4-5 days.
they should all be here on wed!
ahhh i can't wait! then i can finish it and start tuning this weekend, and then i hope i can
get the clutching dialed in.
stay tuned in the next 4-5 days.
I
INKEDRIDER
ACCOUNT CLOSED
did you ever do anything to your head? pipe? and what fuel are you going with?
Head has got nothing done, i checked the quish on it and it's .095 right now. i don't know if the original owner did anything or got a different base gasket or did something to the domes. i'm leaving it for now.
Fuel is going to be 91oct but i was thinking about running E-85 down the road.
Fuel is going to be 91oct but i was thinking about running E-85 down the road.
I cant remeber what the stock pipe lookes like on the 1000, BUT, i know on the clamshelled style doo pipe with the booger lookin weld around the seam, cut it off and weld some 1" 16gauge strap over the crack, unless you like your sled to Constantly blow the seam apart and not make boost.. melt plastic, etc. its kinda a hassle and takes a while, but cutting days short because the seam keeps blowing out makes up for it in a hurry.
Ok it's update time! i'm sure everyone is dying to see what's going on next
So my Wideband showed up along with fuel pressure reg and boost controller.
I installed the AIC under the dash behind the gauges and tach to keep it up
off the engine and out of the way of moisture, boost signal is split between the AIC BOV and Boost gauge.
welded the widebang bung to the turbine outlet and finished the divorced wastegate piping, installed gaskets and mounted oil tank, so tmmr i'll be doing the fuel system mods: eliminating the transfer pump, and high pressure pump in the tank and installing the walbro 255LPH pump to pressurize both rails, being a return style system that's where the fuel pressure reg comes in, keeping pressure where i need it to be and it's a boost referenced regulator ( RRFPR) as boost pressure rises so does fuel pressure. 1psi:1psi, so 8lbs of boost 8 more pounds of fuel..
i'm not going to reference the reg for now, since the AIC ( additional injector controller) is capable of holding the injectors open longer ( pulse width) so it's basicly doin the same thing that a boost referenced reg does, but electricaly.
Divorced wastegate pipe.
Wideband bung
Gauges installed in dash
AIC and gauge wiring, *Not completed yet*
AIC unit
Hour count : 45+ hours
Price : 1,154.25
ET Until test runs and tuning..
72 hours, hopefully will test and tune this saturday.
Wiring mess
Turbo running
AIC computer tuning sofware
It runs!!!
So my Wideband showed up along with fuel pressure reg and boost controller.
I installed the AIC under the dash behind the gauges and tach to keep it up
off the engine and out of the way of moisture, boost signal is split between the AIC BOV and Boost gauge.
welded the widebang bung to the turbine outlet and finished the divorced wastegate piping, installed gaskets and mounted oil tank, so tmmr i'll be doing the fuel system mods: eliminating the transfer pump, and high pressure pump in the tank and installing the walbro 255LPH pump to pressurize both rails, being a return style system that's where the fuel pressure reg comes in, keeping pressure where i need it to be and it's a boost referenced regulator ( RRFPR) as boost pressure rises so does fuel pressure. 1psi:1psi, so 8lbs of boost 8 more pounds of fuel..
i'm not going to reference the reg for now, since the AIC ( additional injector controller) is capable of holding the injectors open longer ( pulse width) so it's basicly doin the same thing that a boost referenced reg does, but electricaly.
Divorced wastegate pipe.
Wideband bung
Gauges installed in dash
AIC and gauge wiring, *Not completed yet*
AIC unit
Hour count : 45+ hours
Price : 1,154.25
ET Until test runs and tuning..
72 hours, hopefully will test and tune this saturday.
Wiring mess
Turbo running
AIC computer tuning sofware
It runs!!!
Ok guys it's all done and i've done a test run, and well... it burned down..
damn!
Ya it sucks but i've learned so much from tinkering around i just can't give up now, I'm leaning twards detonation also.
fuel pressure was 60-ish to both rails, I did not monitor EGT's ( might put dual gauges in next time) Running 91oct
also i didn't have a "steth-a-scope" det ear muffs on so i could have had some deto.
With the turbo i have on there i'm sure it's too small now, as when we got back to the truck the bearings are gone in the CHRA
so it's got way too much backpressure, so i'm looking for a GT3076 for the next build up. after i get a minute i'll take the
top end off, and start a new thread on the tear down-autopsy.
only 4lbs.. daaamn.
well heres some pics of the final project, before i tear it down.
It's a 1:1 regulator, but i'm not putting boost to it. i should be able to control the injectors with the SIC unit and provide enough fuel without having to bump rail pressure, and to note: fuel pressure under boost was steady at 60psi.
I'll pull the air box and setup the SIC and fuel pump and see how it reacts on the bench, so after i rebuild the engine i can see how it
does... aghhhh i'm jut frazzled right now.. jager sounds good haha
Looks like i might run it NA until i get another turbo and some EGTS... deeezanng
Fuel lines
Fuel pump
Fuel pressure reg
exhaust dump
turbo
damn!
Ya it sucks but i've learned so much from tinkering around i just can't give up now, I'm leaning twards detonation also.
fuel pressure was 60-ish to both rails, I did not monitor EGT's ( might put dual gauges in next time) Running 91oct
also i didn't have a "steth-a-scope" det ear muffs on so i could have had some deto.
With the turbo i have on there i'm sure it's too small now, as when we got back to the truck the bearings are gone in the CHRA
so it's got way too much backpressure, so i'm looking for a GT3076 for the next build up. after i get a minute i'll take the
top end off, and start a new thread on the tear down-autopsy.
only 4lbs.. daaamn.
well heres some pics of the final project, before i tear it down.
It's a 1:1 regulator, but i'm not putting boost to it. i should be able to control the injectors with the SIC unit and provide enough fuel without having to bump rail pressure, and to note: fuel pressure under boost was steady at 60psi.
I'll pull the air box and setup the SIC and fuel pump and see how it reacts on the bench, so after i rebuild the engine i can see how it
does... aghhhh i'm jut frazzled right now.. jager sounds good
haha Looks like i might run it NA until i get another turbo and some EGTS... deeezanng
Fuel lines
Fuel pump
Fuel pressure reg
exhaust dump
turbo
Alright here is some pics of the Turbo-RT burndown and rebuild...
First i have to get some motivation
and then i can tear into the engine...
looks like it's a burn on the exhaust side of the pistons, and there was enough back pressure to wear off the nikasil on the intake side of the cylinder walls,
hmmm looks like i need a bigger turbo to relieve the back pressure of the added intake pressure, and possibly change the injector phase. i'm thinking that they were firing on the down stroke and not getting past the reeds in time to get pushed on the top of the pistons.
PTO side
MAG side
First i have to get some motivation
and then i can tear into the engine...
looks like it's a burn on the exhaust side of the pistons, and there was enough back pressure to wear off the nikasil on the intake side of the cylinder walls,
hmmm looks like i need a bigger turbo to relieve the back pressure of the added intake pressure, and possibly change the injector phase. i'm thinking that they were firing on the down stroke and not getting past the reeds in time to get pushed on the top of the pistons.
PTO side
MAG side
First.
MEasure the domes height above the surface of the head shell.. ALmost all rt's were poorly machined here.
Youd be shocked how far some are off...010 above is what doo specs..gotta hold it tight or shes a gonner....
use your fuel press as a pipe gauge.
reference fuel pressure from pipe center section. this way when under boost you can do some quick math and se the backepressure.
base fp + boost should total , xtra press is pipe backpress.
Pipe should run 4-7 psi over boost for safe running, drags we go as high as 9 psi over and are still gaining hp, but at a price in time at wide open..
ie, 35 base plus 9 psi boost = 44, the overage from that is your pipe back pressure,, should be 48 to 50 total ,, more is no so good for you....
Gus
you'll be back and goood to go..
MEasure the domes height above the surface of the head shell.. ALmost all rt's were poorly machined here.
Youd be shocked how far some are off...010 above is what doo specs..gotta hold it tight or shes a gonner....
use your fuel press as a pipe gauge.
reference fuel pressure from pipe center section. this way when under boost you can do some quick math and se the backepressure.
base fp + boost should total , xtra press is pipe backpress.
Pipe should run 4-7 psi over boost for safe running, drags we go as high as 9 psi over and are still gaining hp, but at a price in time at wide open..
ie, 35 base plus 9 psi boost = 44, the overage from that is your pipe back pressure,, should be 48 to 50 total ,, more is no so good for you....
Gus
you'll be back and goood to go..
I
INKEDRIDER
ACCOUNT CLOSED
WOW, I am sorry but I have to say I told you so!! Why didn't you listen to a guy that has the same sled that runs great? Anyway, Its big of you to show your failure. When you get tired of trying to make it work and your done spending money just pm me and I will tell you everything I have done to my sled and Ill get you on the snow.
show him how not to get deto at 7# of boost with 110 fuel eh??
but seriously, good on you for admiting to the failre.. theres a lot going on and its easy to overlook details, now that you got the excitment out of the way for getting it running, time to step back and try and do some things and get it running right and consistantly.
jason(inkedrider) has many wise things to say.. the turbo system is pretty easy to get put together and working in a hurry, but you can chase your tail and smoke your motor a lot of times over some stupid simple chit with these things... He would still be running straight 110 and low boost and taking out pistons if he hadn't figured it out. I will leave it up to you to learn the rest, but the point being, if you don't KNOW a part is built right, then its probably wrong.
just ask him.. how many times did it burn down over a retarted simple problem?
did it spin the ring?
I dont see any deto damage on the head, bore or very top edge of the cylinder on ex port side.. NONE
look deeper,, it may have just been a piston on its way to the dump.
no sieze evidence, no smearing on the bore,, just a broken dome edge and a gouged bore from a ring....
Not even a little bit of alumadust stuck to anything that would signal deto or lean burn....
hummmmm
Gus
the 2860 is way to small, but even at 8 psi its just a low powered turbo not a burndown monster till 12 psi. b
I dont see any deto damage on the head, bore or very top edge of the cylinder on ex port side.. NONE
look deeper,, it may have just been a piston on its way to the dump.
no sieze evidence, no smearing on the bore,, just a broken dome edge and a gouged bore from a ring....
Not even a little bit of alumadust stuck to anything that would signal deto or lean burn....
hummmmm
Gus
the 2860 is way to small, but even at 8 psi its just a low powered turbo not a burndown monster till 12 psi. b
Ya i really like input from people and really don't expect a "hand out"
but people that are willing to help, i'll try whatever they have.
This was a new engine on the machine with about 400 miles on it, when i got this sled from the guy it had just came back from BRP so the internals were basicly new. I didnt' see any deto indications in the cylinders or on the plugs, but i don't really know what to look for exactily. but several people have said it's not detonation.
With the turbo being so small can that cause the backpressure in the pipe
to get high enough and make enough heat to fry the piston like that?
it looks like also it was pushing the pistons back into the intake side of the cylinder. i'll be talking with Inkedrider later today about his setup.
but people that are willing to help, i'll try whatever they have.
This was a new engine on the machine with about 400 miles on it, when i got this sled from the guy it had just came back from BRP so the internals were basicly new. I didnt' see any deto indications in the cylinders or on the plugs, but i don't really know what to look for exactily. but several people have said it's not detonation.
With the turbo being so small can that cause the backpressure in the pipe
to get high enough and make enough heat to fry the piston like that?
it looks like also it was pushing the pistons back into the intake side of the cylinder. i'll be talking with Inkedrider later today about his setup.
Pyro, E mail me
gus.bohne@comcast.net
I have some pics for you that might just claer this stumble up....
Gus
gus.bohne@comcast.net
I have some pics for you that might just claer this stumble up....
Gus
T
Team Voodoo
Active member
I'm new to turbos and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but after looking at the pics and piston damage I'm thinking the problem is the turbine exhaust pipe being to small creating to much back pressure. I noticed you have a pipe at the wastegate exit but I don't think it would help out much with flow coming off the turbine wheel.
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