trouble sidehilling the pro

[snowracer21]

This is going to sound pretty pathetic.. but,
I have a 2015 RMK PRO 800 163"
I also spent some time on a pretty beat '09 rmk 700 155" the other week. Now, this sled cannot climb like my pro can, but for some reason, I can side hill the living **** out of this sled.
I feel so comfortable on it, riding the trail, I can get up on the hill next to it and ride forever... where as when I hop on my pro, I have to work really hard, it seems to just want to go straight up instead of just carving the hill.

One thing I need to play with is the front shocks (I have W/E clickers)and have them cranked all the way stiff (I like to jump a bit).
Also, still running the sway bar.. does this make a big difference?

Either way, it's pretty demoralizing to me when I feel so much more comfortable on the old dragon platform.. I'm obviously doing something wrong..huh?

 

[xc6rider]

Foot placement?

Little bit makes a big difference in making sled climb/turn or maintain a line.

Standing farther to the back will make the sled want to turn up hill.

If your standing all the way forward and it's still turning up or washing out, you will probably need to take some preload out of your suspension to get it transfer some more and less likely to trench.


Couple things to think about anyways!

Edit: also, you might try with a fresh start, and get the suspension set per the manual for your weight.

 

[mountainhorse]

Are your handlebars leaning forward or backwards... or are they in-line with the steering post? (when viewed from the side of the sled)



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[MacDawg productions]

Remove sway bar, soften front suspension by loosening off the springs. Not too much, but shocks need to be softer to initiate your side hill. Next would be front track shock to relieve ski pressure. Step by step. If you like jumping, start by sway bar removal. You will notice a huge diff. Then ride it.

 

[sledheadd]

Remove sway bar, soften front suspension by loosening off the springs. Not too much, but shocks need to be softer to initiate your side hill. Next would be front track shock to relieve ski pressure. Step by step. If you like jumping, start by sway bar removal. You will notice a huge diff. Then ride it.

I agree with this.
I changed my shocks out to Elka's valved for jumping and noticed that the sled is way harder to initiate a side hill. Disconnecting the sway bar will have a profound effect on this. I opted to go with a quick disconnect as to not lose any trail manners.

 

[ullose272]

I also noticed my ski rubbers were too loose causing the ski tip to come up and made the sled want to go up hill. Once i swapped to slp mohawks with way tighter bushings the ski tip would submarine into the snow more. It was way better. Also are your springs cranked full stiff or just the clickers? Springs should be set for rider weight and sag where clickers for dampening.

 

[Cooksend]

You have clickers my friend. Quick and easy to click click your way into a sled that will sidehill. I love to snag some air miles myself and typically run my clickers 6 to 8 up from full soft (click up when you go send it and down when you get Tech). If we go ride Tech Tree's I will back them all the way off... A big air set up will not be a good technical riding set up.

 

[Mountainhill]

... A big air set up will not be a good technical riding set up.

Unless you buy triple adjustable shocks, I very rarely change any suspension setup! Although all i can afford to eat is bread and water...

In my opinion:
If the problem lies in initiating the sidehill and finding the balance point then the front suspension is where to start trouble shooting! But if the problem lies in holding the sidehill and pointing it where you want it (as you mentioned, to much turn-up) i would start looking into the rear suspension and rider position first!

You can also make the sled hold a straight line better narrowing the front end with the sacrifice of making it more dull to rider input (while sidehilling).

 

[Perk]

My .02 - was in the same boat as you but with some help on here I got it dialed in:

- Sway Bar stays in
- Loosen front shock springs as much as possible without losing the keepers.
- Ski Doo Rev Ski rubbers
- Skis set in narrowest position
- KMOD 37" front end (most important item in the list)
- Front Track Shock - adjust spring to about 1/2" - 3/4" threads showing
- Rear track shock - adjust for rider weight - close to stock is ok

 

[black z]

Soften the front shocks, the front track shock, and tighten the rear track shock. Ski-doo rev ski rubbers will help keep the skis from tipping up.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Soften the front shocks, the front track shock, and tighten the rear track shock. Ski-doo rev ski rubbers will help keep the skis from tipping up.

^^^^^^ low cost and effective.

 

[snowracer21]

Foot placement?

Little bit makes a big difference in making sled climb/turn or maintain a line.

Standing farther to the back will make the sled want to turn up hill.

If your standing all the way forward and it's still turning up or washing out, you will probably need to take some preload out of your suspension to get it transfer some more and less likely to trench.


Couple things to think about anyways!

Edit: also, you might try with a fresh start, and get the suspension set per the manual for your weight.

Thanks man, I'll have to try setting the suspension up for my weight. Like I said, I was so comfortable on the Dragon, and it has over 3K miles on it, and the suspension is way worn out.. so I was dumbfounded why i was having so much trouble on my new Pro

Are your handlebars leaning forward or backwards... or are they in-line with the steering post? (when viewed from the side of the sled)

.

They are leaning backwards, like, towards the rider. I've ran my bars like this throughout my snocross career, maybe I need to try something different?

Remove sway bar, soften front suspension by loosening off the springs. Not too much, but shocks need to be softer to initiate your side hill. Next would be front track shock to relieve ski pressure. Step by step. If you like jumping, start by sway bar removal. You will notice a huge diff. Then ride it.

It seems 50/50 on removing the sway bar.. i could care less about trail rideability, i'm not on the trail much... I defenitly have a problem initiating.. as soon as I try to initiate, the sled wants to just turn up the hill. I'll try all those.

Unless you buy triple adjustable shocks, I very rarely change any suspension setup! Although all i can afford to eat is bread and water...

In my opinion:
If the problem lies in initiating the sidehill and finding the balance point then the front suspension is where to start trouble shooting! But if the problem lies in holding the sidehill and pointing it where you want it (as you mentioned, to much turn-up) i would start looking into the rear suspension and rider position first!

You can also make the sled hold a straight line better narrowing the front end with the sacrifice of making it more dull to rider input (while sidehilling).

I'll try softining the ski shocks, as well as the front track shock.. I ride everything as stiff as it will go... i'm learning that this isn't the way to do it

My .02 - was in the same boat as you but with some help on here I got it dialed in:

- Sway Bar stays in
- Loosen front shock springs as much as possible without losing the keepers.
- Ski Doo Rev Ski rubbers
- Skis set in narrowest position
- KMOD 37" front end (most important item in the list)
- Front Track Shock - adjust spring to about 1/2" - 3/4" threads showing
- Rear track shock - adjust for rider weight - close to stock is ok

so, leave sway bar in? i'm used to riding with no sway bar (raced snocross for ~10 yrs) i understand this is a different animal though..

I'm going to stick with the stock front end for now, but i'll try all those other things you mentioned.
I really appreciate the help!

 

[doc202]

I had the same problem. I rolled my bars to the first mark past the zero mark forward and took a big step forward. Solved most of my problems coming off an M8. Was awkward at first but made the sled much more controllable.

 

[mountainhorse]

Are your handlebars leaning forward or backwards... or are they in-line with the steering post? (when viewed from the side of the sled)

.

They are leaning backwards, like, towards the rider. I've ran my bars like this throughout my snocross career, maybe I need to try something different?

IMO...Running the bars like that may be giving you some issues... On the PRO Chassis(and the AXYS for that matter)... a lot of time effort went into a steering post angle that would be conducive to technical riding...and sidehilling. Compared to snowcrossers/trail-sleds and most other sleds out there... the ProRide-mountain sleds have a much more vertical steering post.

The steering post on a ProRide-mtn "turns" rather than "swings" with the bars in the neutral position.

Loosen the clamp and roll them back up to neutral and give them a try...it's a freebie low effort adjustment you can play with on the hill with just two wrenches.

Also... if you have been adjusting the suspension etc... take it back to the settings in the owners manual... then work from there on other suggestions.

IMO... Leave in the swaybar unless you go to new shocks and springs designed to run without.






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[mountainhorse]

Compressing the uphill shock on a sidehill is also not great for overall control.

Heres a previous post that also applies to this discussion of Suspension setup. Most of the really good riders (better than me... I'm an average rider)... will already know this.

Here is my take on the subject. (copy/paste from other thread)

MY OPINION>>> there are others that ride without that prefer it... Which is OK too.

This is IMO...

Here are some things that I learned that worked for me and made for less effort riding for my style of riding. I was excited to to learn this and thought I would pass on an experience that made my riding better. There are many better riders out there than me... many of them have a different style all their own that works very well for them.

Keep it. On the Pro... definitely.

Here is an adaptation of a post I put up a while back.

Before you may get all riled up… I do believe that you can get good performance from the sleds without a swaybar… but your shocks will need to be re-sprung/valved. I've had a PRO with my dialed in $1500 Fox EVOL-X's on it and I did like it... but that is an expensive shock with a lot of time in the 5 different adjustments those shocks have.

This conversation is for the "Average Joe/Josephine" that does not have upgraded shocks or years of riding experience.

With the PRO Chassis ... With stock shocks/springs...with the sway bar out... for the most part…. you are really not getting the sled "on edge" even though it may feel like it...You are compressing the front shock and flexing the track. You are "squatting" the front end and removing available travel.

Many people have this misconception…. I Did too (until I worked with Dan Adams on my technique)

When the shock is collapsed, there is little travel remaining to deal with rough terrain or crusty snow. Even more evident on a steep side hill when the body panels are riding deep in the snow and want to push you back down the hill…much less evident on a PRO RMK than the Previous models.... usually resulting in a roll over or requiring that you turn down the hill and going, usually, where you don’t want to go.

Truly getting the sled "on edge" DOES require more effort (to learn) and balance... It takes a practice to get comfortable with it... but the efforts over a few days of riding will, IMO, transform your riding. Once you "get it"... there is not much effort to the tequnique and you don't get tired on long sidehills.

With the proper swaybar OR new shocks that are valved and sprung for no swaybar... the sled will get up on edge well and hold a line without the shock collapsing on a steep sidehill... and kept the travel in the shock to deal with terrain and not get bucked back down the hill...Nor buck you off when doing powder carves in a meadow.

Yes, you can throw it around easier without the swaybar out...BUT... this is a dead-giveaway that you need to work on your riding techniques...In most cases.

I had the same misunderstanding and needed to work on it. This is the key to better riding on a Mountain sled IMO.

Cranking up the preload on the spring or putting more air in the shock is not the answer either as you can get into coil bind or the air-shock does not want to compress fully and gets super stiff… especially in the standard floats. Plus… this throws off the engineered balance of the sled as it increases the ride heigh of the sled... though some people adapt to it.

In the end... it boils down to practice... get into a packed out field and spend the day getting and keeping your sled on edge in left and right turns. Throttle control is important here too. Sometimes, like for me, it took an hour of literally walking next to my sled with it on edge and controlling the throttle, skis and balance of the sled before I could ride it that way.

You should be able to ride on one ski indefinitely, with little effort, once you have perfected the technique.

My 2 cents.

Have a look at this video...

​

Rasmussen at :50 and Whelpton at 1:39

You can see that the sled is on edge as compared to having the shock compressed on that side... This allows the shock to still have travel to do work if you hit irregularities in the snow.

It is more work to learn it... but worth it IMO.

Have a look at this one...

​

at :28 , :48 1:13, 1:18 ... you will see that on the extreme sidehill... the uphill front suspension is basically still fully extended... the sled is on Edge... not "squatted" on that side.

THEN, FINALLY HAVE A LOOK AT THIS ONE...

Bret, at 1:54 seconds... "bumps" the tree on an extreme sidehill... the shock/suspension absorb the impact and then extends agian... If the shock was "squatted" on that side.. there would have been effectively no travel left to deal with that obstacle and he would have been bucked down the hill.... Pretty amazing move!!

​

​

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[Perk]

Thanks man, I'll have to try setting the suspension up for my weight. Like I said, I was so comfortable on the Dragon, and it has over 3K miles on it, and the suspension is way worn out.. so I was dumbfounded why i was having so much trouble on my new Pro


They are leaning backwards, like, towards the rider. I've ran my bars like this throughout my snocross career, maybe I need to try something different?




It seems 50/50 on removing the sway bar.. i could care less about trail rideability, i'm not on the trail much... I defenitly have a problem initiating.. as soon as I try to initiate, the sled wants to just turn up the hill. I'll try all those.



I'll try softining the ski shocks, as well as the front track shock.. I ride everything as stiff as it will go... i'm learning that this isn't the way to do it



so, leave sway bar in? i'm used to riding with no sway bar (raced snocross for ~10 yrs) i understand this is a different animal though..

I'm going to stick with the stock front end for now, but i'll try all those other things you mentioned.
I really appreciate the help!

I hear you - this is the first sled I have ridden with the sway bar in. I tried it without and it sucked. I have ridden others with the bar out but they had the shock setup that made it work. I never was comfortable on this sled until I went with the KMOD front end - 37" The bonus of going with this setup is that you get rid of the bonded a-arms. You should be able to sell your old set for 250 easy which makes the KMOD setup pretty cheap. One more thing, to get this sled on edge, I found that a quick move in the opposite direction and then back to the side you want to be on brings the ski right up. And you use your arms a lot more on this chassis then on the old one. So trying to explain it better... here is an example. If I am trying to get the ski up on the left ski (lifting the right ski) I first shift my weight onto my right foot and counter steer a little to the right, then quickly shift my weight back onto my left foot and at the same time, pull/yank with my arms to the left (maintaining the counter steer). Hopefully that makes sense - Last year I started to put this together when someone on here mentioned that it is easier to get this sled on its side if you first point the skis down the hill (not just counter steering, actually pointing the sled downhill a little) and then pulling it onto the uphill ski. That worked for me, added the 37" front end and now it feels perfect and I don't need to actually point the sled down the hill to bring it up. I too have ridden for 20+ years and had never been on a sled I couldn't put anywhere on the hill that I wanted it. With the pro, I had to completely re-learn.

 

[Perk]

btw - that example I just gave you is riding straddled - I have found that 95% of the time I do all my riding straddled now, very rarely do I have to get on one board or go wrong foot forward.