Toyin Around with an Idea!

[Chief]

I don't know what rules would have to be changed but the police won the battle over the white crosses they've put by the highways...

The memorials that are put up privately get taken down...

Again, an issue we'd have to take up with State Parks and National Forest Service.

 

[1MEX]

Good idea to do something like this to go through. I know when i pass one of those memorials on the highway i think to myself what could of gone wrong and what were they thinking taking the turn fast or drunk or what wrong decision did they make that day? and i find myself slowing down to not make the same mistake. Sometimes seen something along the way to remind you of what can go wrong helps to wake you up back to what really matters. Hope it goes through.

 

[Rock Star]

As I live closer than any other person to the Soapstone Trailhead and I could update the sign, I had this idea 4 years ago and was told this when I looked into it....

liability!!!!! Kill the laywers. The logic is that IF the AVY center says low... and I post low on the sign that day.... and some one goes down, WE would be possibly liable. that sucks.

I fully support a warning sign like the fire signs. I would help in any way I could as well.

 

[coolm7cat]

i think its a great idea because there is alot of people who do not have a computer to get on the internet or get their local newspaper to receive this life saving information and posting a sign at the parking lot everyone would know the conditions and ride accordingly.

 

[Dan]

We should talk with Craig Gordon from the avalanche center about this. The avy center already does an amazing job with online forecasts, we just need to get more people to look at the forecast before they go out.

Don't forget the avalanche awareness ride is coming up in February! This is an excellent opportunity to have a good time on the snow and raise some much-needed cash for the avalanche center at the same time. This will also be a great chance to spread the word around the snowmobile community.

http://www.avarides.com/

 

[Rock Star]

Great reminder Dan. I think we need to really show up in force this year to thank Craig and his associates and to support them as they protect us.

you guys put Feb 7th on your calendar and I'll think up something up here for after the ride for those who won't be headed to Draper afterwards.

 

[Boondockn]

Thanks for everyones input and keep it coming. I spent a little time on the phone this evening with Dean. Everyones comments are much appreciated. Make sure to mark your calendar for Feb 7th for the avy awareness ride. Rock can be in charge of the after-ride activities. (if you are not planning on going to draper) But try to show up and support Craig and the Utah Avalanche Center. Dean talked to craig today just bouncing some ideas off of him. There are going to be some hoops to jump through probablly , but nothing that can't be worked out hopefully. There is strength in numbers fellars and there has been so much support for all kinds of things on here, I know we can make a difference. Like a quote above. May work May not but it is sure as hell worth giving it a shot. (terrible paraphrasing)
Lets be honest with eachother. The last time you rode whether it be yesterday or last week how many of us checked the avy reports? I mean actually called the number or checked the site. Or for that matter checked to see if we were BEEPING.
I am going to PM everyone from this post to get your numbers if I don't already have them. To get some more ideas and feedback. I think this is a step in the right but infant to early to tell direction.
I don't know what other options we might have to raise awareness at the trailheads. Someone want to look into what it would take to tote an avy gun behind the goats and do our own avy control? JK
Out


Zac

 

[Killerk]

I still think word of mouth is the best was to educate, while in the parking lot take a second to let the group next to you know what the danger is. I think the "fire" danger sign is a good one. But ultimately it come down to the individual. Im not bashing I have just lost faith in the general body of sledders.

I agree with this but if after a few times talking to dinks that could care less and are rude, I will eventually stop trying.
Just last saturday we parked next to a big hill in the safe zone.
A group of 7 or more pulled up and parked at the bottom of the hill in the danger zone.
After they shut off all of their sleds, I told them it wasn't a safe place to park and one guy said something to the effect that the hill won't slide.
I felt like walking over and punching him, but at least 3 of their group started their sleds and moved to a safe area while the rest stayed put, so at least I got through to a few of them.
Just seems that when you aproach people about the dangers they get defensive.

 

[Duddin]

I think anything we can do to help people get educated is a good idea, I dont see why we couldnt put them right next to the fire danger signs. I'm out of a job so I have lots of time on my hands let me know what I can do to help. I think a good place to start would be talking to the forest service and getting the sled clubs involved.

 

[Chief]

liability!!!!! Kill the laywers. The logic is that IF the AVY center says low... and I post low on the sign that day.... and some one goes down, WE would be possibly liable. that sucks.

With a memorial to the Avy Victims we wouldn't have the liability.

Collecting the names and locations and determining who gets onto each memorial will be tough.

For example, where would we put the memorial to Dave (Animial) that would be seen by the many instead of the few? What about the back country snowborders (Fairview the same weekend as we lost Dave).

How long has the Avy center been tracking Avy deaths in utah?

 

[snengineer]

We should still cover all our bases, The majority of snowmobilers who ride at least a few times a year probrably do not read snowest much at all, which probrably means they are not on-line much and they need other forms of advisory. I think the trailhead sign for avalanche danger would cover that group of people. I wonder out of all the sled avy tragedies in the last five years how many of those who were part of the tragedy use snowest forums or check the avy forecast every time they jump on the sleds. Not pointing fingers just wonder what else can be done to reach every sledder possible with the most up-to-date information.

 

[acdar]

Just as a update to the signs. I talked to Craig Gordon on friday. The first issue is getting the permits to do this. Craig is going to look into to this some more and he told me there are alot of hoops to jump thru. The second issue is the liability and man power for the adjustable signs. The third issue is what it would cost to make the signs.

I have attached a picture of a sign that the avalanche center has already made up. There is one up at the Soapstone parking lot. The signs cost $150 each. Craig feels like this sign is the best option for what we are looking for.

I feel that we should get at least one sign for all the lots in Utah. In the future, I would like to even see a sign at each trail leaving the parking lots.

This week I am going to contact Fred Hayes to see if there is any way to get around the permit issues thru him.

 

[hatchers]

lets say a level warning system wont work for legal reasons..

why not use what is used every day?....a sign that reads a large number for teh current death toll. You see them on I-80 and lil Sahara Sand Dunes. This type of sign will make peolpe think more then twice

 

[Rock Star]

wow, Hatchers. A current death toll? I like it! It sure would make one think!!!

I will offer right now the first $150 needed for a sign at Soapstone.

 

[idratherberidin]

I think this is a great idea! my wife and i would be more then happy to donate our time to assist in this project. I could donate a little money but i would like to pay with labor if i can. I know for sure i could get 5 other people (at least) to help. I would like to get a little more involved during the season and off season. Let me know what i can do to help.
I ride mostly logan area and south east Idaho. I would be more then happy to travel to other areas to help out. I need to meet more people that ride.

 

[avyhunter]

Thanks everyone for all the input, energy, ideas and generous donations pledged for the signage project. Let’s back up a moment and answer a couple of questions here.

First- a sign with just the danger rating is static. Given the complexity of snow, a blanket Low, Moderate, etc… doesn’t address what’s going on with the snowpack, probability of triggering a slide or the consequences. For example we could have a generally LOW to MODERATE overall avalanche danger, but a CONSIDERABLE danger of triggering deep, dangerous hard slab avalanches…. much like what’s going on in the Uinta’s right now. Not very straightforward for a one word descriptor.

Secondly- yes, liability is an issue; however misinformation is a bigger issue.

Finally- I came up with the Are You Beeping? signs to combat the rising fatalities associated with lift served backcountry skiers and especially snowboarders. They’re installed at ski area boundaries and I’ve also implemented them in Logan and parts of the western Uinta’s. The signs are graphically enhanced to catch attention, give clues to instability and provide resources to tap into so folks can learn more about avalanches and make educated, informed decisions.

Taking this to the next level- we should identify key locations statewide and decide where we’re going to get the biggest bang for our buck. If you’d like to email me at craig@utahavalanchecenter.org I’m psyched to get the ball rolling.

The upcoming avy ride fundraiser on Saturday, Feb. 7th would be a great place to earmark funds for this project. Please spread the word of this event so we can continue keeping riders on top of the greatest snow on earth, rather than buried beneath it.

Thanks… I look forward to working with y’all on this and hope to see you at Tri-City for tonight’s avy awareness presentation!
Cheers.
Craig