Thoughts on VI-PEC and Bullydog

[nytro41]

MH NOTE: Monday, Oct 6, 2014
I've pruned the MTNTK thread as it was getting off topic with this discussion that talked about a control system that MTNTK does not have as an option in their kits.... and moved them to their own thread...

NO posts have been deleted nor edited.

Please keep this thread clean... if you have something to contribute, in a rational way... please post it up. If you have only bashing or boasting to do... please think about it before you post.

Thanks, MH.

Just got my sled put together.

13 pro 162 x 3" and a lot of other stuff....Including the MTNTK turbo.

The install was great and the fit an finish was Nothing short of perfect.

I ran the sled for 2 days along side a pro with a HM kit....same track and clutches

The sled ran OK. It was boggy on the bottom and hiccupped sometimes at WOT going up the hill. I was running 6 PSI of boost. It was VERY sluggish on the bottom, that is my biggest complaint.

The HM ran AWESOME. no hiccups, snappy bottom end. Very good throttle response. Running 6 PSI as well. The top end on both sleds was comparable when they were cold. After 10 seconds of WOT up the hill the MTNTK falls on its face...The power is gone. It became heat soaked very quick.

They are both quality products with there downfalls each. IMO any Turbo needs a water to air intercooler no matter what the boost is. And my ride this weekend proved it.

I like both kits and you get what you pay for. The vipec IMO has a lot to do with the bottom end response over the Bullydog.

the bullydog can do what the vipec can. tuning the bottom end out wouldnt be a problem. you are messing with the entire map that came from Polaris itself. dont get me wrong the vipec is one heck of a product but the bullydog can do just as much.

 

[Vi-PEC Powersports]

the bullydog can do what the vipec can. tuning the bottom end out wouldnt be a problem. you are messing with the entire map that came from Polaris itself. dont get me wrong the vipec is one heck of a product but the bullydog can do just as much.

Can't be serious....
The bully dog tuner can't do 1/50th of what our ECU/software combo can do.

Vi-pec Powersports

 

[Iceman56]

the bullydog can do what the vipec can. tuning the bottom end out wouldnt be a problem. you are messing with the entire map that came from Polaris itself. dont get me wrong the vipec is one heck of a product but the bullydog can do just as much.

lol yeah okay, if you say so.... You wrote it on snowest so its definitely true

 

[Danny Dangles]

lol yeah okay, if you say so.... You wrote it on snowest so its definitely true

Ever looked through the software of a vipec?...pretty sure he is correct. Now a better point to argue that a lot of the vipecs capability is not applicable to a snowmobile....bullydog falls in the middle of a fuel controller and the vipec, and its a big gap.........

 

[Iceman56]

Ever looked through the software of a vipec?...pretty sure he is correct. Now a better point to argue that a lot of the vipecs capability is not applicable to a snowmobile....bullydog falls in the middle of a fuel controller and the vipec, and its a big gap.........

What are you trying to say? That the Bullydog is capable of everything the Vipec is or not?

 

[edavis0202]

the bullydog can do what the vipec can. tuning the bottom end out wouldnt be a problem. you are messing with the entire map that came from Polaris itself. dont get me wrong the vipec is one heck of a product but the bullydog can do just as much.

HAHAHAHA...what Silber dealer told you that?

 

[nytro41]

HAHAHAHA...what Silber dealer told you that?

no need to start a pissing match over this boys. DID I NOT SAY that vipec is a good product. and i might have phrased my words a little wrong but 1/50th of wht the vipec can do?? seriously man your going to saythat 1/50th of what the vipec can do. need i repeat myself one more time. the vipec is an outstanding product. i havent heard any bad things about it. but in saying that bullydog has access (from what i understnad) to all the polaris maps. so sure the bullydog cant add sensors like the vipec but to say that bullydog can only do 1/50th of what the vipec can. im not sure thats a true statement. i wasnt on here to cause a fight boys all im saying is that i dont think people realize the full potential of the bullydog. maybe its not what the vipec is. but it sure is pretty good.

 

[edavis0202]

no need to start a pissing match over this boys. DID I NOT SAY that vipec is a good product. and i might have phrased my words a little wrong but 1/50th of wht the vipec can do?? seriously man your going to saythat 1/50th of what the vipec can do. need i repeat myself one more time. the vipec is an outstanding product. i havent heard any bad things about it. but in saying that bullydog has access (from what i understnad) to all the polaris maps. so sure the bullydog cant add sensors like the vipec but to say that bullydog can only do 1/50th of what the vipec can. im not sure thats a true statement. i wasnt on here to cause a fight boys all im saying is that i dont think people realize the full potential of the bullydog. maybe its not what the vipec is. but it sure is pretty good.

You obviously haven't seen the Vipec in action...It replaces the stock ECU all together. The bullydog taps into and modifies pieces...not really apples to apples when it comes to fuel control.

Is the bullydog a good product? Yes, does it do what the Vipec can? Not even close.

 

[Daltech]

no need to start a pissing match over this boys. DID I NOT SAY that vipec is a good product. and i might have phrased my words a little wrong but 1/50th of wht the vipec can do?? seriously man your going to saythat 1/50th of what the vipec can do. need i repeat myself one more time. the vipec is an outstanding product. i havent heard any bad things about it. but in saying that bullydog has access (from what i understnad) to all the polaris maps. so sure the bullydog cant add sensors like the vipec but to say that bullydog can only do 1/50th of what the vipec can. im not sure thats a true statement. i wasnt on here to cause a fight boys all im saying is that i dont think people realize the full potential of the bullydog. maybe its not what the vipec is. but it sure is pretty good.

To my knowledge, they are not even close to been able to define all maps in the stock ecu. That's where the big difference is. Defining maps in a hex file is a very complexe job, and it is not done over the weekend.
Some maps they might never be able to define, if they cant get hold of an engineer that actually wrote those. And that is most likley not to happend.
With the Vipec you don't need to know the language it is programmed with, you only need to know how to tune it. That is a huge difference.
I don't mean anything bad about the bullydog. It has it's sure place in the industry, and as years passes by, it will only get better and better, as the guys who write files for it, understand more and more how the mapping strategy in the stock ecu works together.
But there is a remaining fact that, with Vipec, you can add almost whatever you want to it that the sled don't have. Launch, nitrous control, ebc, change injectors to whatever size fits your needs....and the list go on and on.
The tuning of a standalone can be done by everyone who has the knowledge. Standalones has been around for 20-30 years now, so the knowledge how to tune it, is spread wide. Even thou most have not tuned a 2-stroke, tuning is tuning, and if you have done it hundres of times before, it don't take that guy much to understand how to tune a 2-stroke also.
So BD and Vipec are not apples to apples, and a comparison of these 2 are not justified any of them.

It is just like race cars and heavy tuned street cars. They do not use reflashed stock ecu's. they use standalones, just because the ease of tuning, and endless of options.

 

[mike_s]

Why spend over a grand on a complete standalone super advanced aerospace controller to run my lawnmower, when the carburetor that came on it is completely capable of doing the job without any issue?

The vipec is cool, sure. No argument there. But is it nessesary? IMO, no. All of these systems, vipec or stock, are not advanced at all. You have to remember that. Its still tech from the 1980's, we're talking 8 bit processors here. The super nintendo had more processing power. But, there in lies my point: why in the hell would you spend a whole bunch of money on a 10 GHZ capable ECM that could do a shuttle launch without any human interaction, when an 8 bit processor can do the job without breaking a sweat? Why buy an ECM twice? You got one when you got your sled, use it.

 

[nytro41]

i fully understand the vipec. i thought the bullydog worked kinda of the same. thats my bad. i didn't mean to bash vipecs product. i think its a great product I've heard nothing but good things about it. i have a 13 PC that i would love to put a turbo it but i am kinda against the plug in boxes which is why i love the idea of the bullydog and the vipec. again i intended no bash or anything on you vipec Powersports. i think you have an outstanding product.

 

[Danny Dangles]

Why spend over a grand on a complete standalone super advanced aerospace controller to run my lawnmower, when the carburetor that came on it is completely capable of doing the job without any issue?

The vipec is cool, sure. No argument there. But is it nessesary? IMO, no. All of these systems, vipec or stock, are not advanced at all. You have to remember that. Its still tech from the 1980's, we're talking 8 bit processors here. The super nintendo had more processing power. But, there in lies my point: why in the hell would you spend a whole bunch of money on a 10 GHZ capable ECM that could do a shuttle launch without any human interaction, when an 8 bit processor can do the job without breaking a sweat? Why buy an ECM twice? You got one when you got your sled, use it.

Because we are talking about fitting sleds with aftermarket components that are not within the range of parameters the stock ecu is capable of handling. Everybody wants a pull and go turbo, similar to what polaris would produce if they built a turbo mountain sled. That is what a vipec is, an ecu capable of handling all the normal operating functions of your sled, with the addition of anything you want to add to it. As well if you are not a turbo guru you have the ability to access all the data you could ever ask for at your fingertips, and make the changes with less trial and error. You have guys who pull turbos off their sleds because the are not able to make them run even remotely well. If you drive 700km+ to the mountains you have wasted a thousand dollars between fuel and hotels and your sled is a boat anchor. $2500 starts to look better and better. You have a stock sled, use the stock ecu, Bryce will even tell you that. A fuel controller will work, but will it ever create the 'stock turbo' sled, I say no. You are right in the fact that the Vipec is more powerful than what our simple sleds will ever need but nothing else is powerful enough.

 

[mike_s]

Because we are talking about fitting sleds with aftermarket components that are not within the range of parameters the stock ecu is capable of handling. Everybody wants a pull and go turbo, similar to what polaris would produce if they built a turbo mountain sled. That is what a vipec is, an ecu capable of handling all the normal operating functions of your sled, with the addition of anything you want to add to it. As well if you are not a turbo guru you have the ability to access all the data you could ever ask for at your fingertips, and make the changes with less trial and error. You have guys who pull turbos off their sleds because the are not able to make them run even remotely well. If you drive 700km+ to the mountains you have wasted a thousand dollars between fuel and hotels and your sled is a boat anchor. $2500 starts to look better and better. You have a stock sled, use the stock ecu, Bryce will even tell you that. A fuel controller will work, but will it ever create the 'stock turbo' sled, I say no. You are right in the fact that the Vipec is more powerful than what our simple sleds will ever need but nothing else is powerful enough.

Odds are, very very high, that if the manufacturer were to produce a factory turbo sled, the would likely use the same kokusan ECM, with different mapping and a 3bar map sensor. They would not likely spend more money on an over-capeable ECM, so why should anyone who is doing the same thing?

If i were building an EFI sled, and i wanted launch control, a turbo, automatic nitrous, automatic ride height control and any other thing like that i could think of, i would definately use a vipec. But to run a turbo engine, with a total of 5 inputs and 2 to 4 outputs required to get the job done, why spend that much money when a $50 dollar ECM out of a 1978 GMC cyclone from the junk yard can do it just as well as the vipec?

 

[mountainhorse]

I've pruned the MTNTK thread as it was getting off topic with this discussion that talked about a control system that MTNTK does not have as an option in their kits.... and moved them to their own thread...

NO posts have been deleted nor edited.

Please keep this thread clean... if you have something to contribute, in a rational way... please post it up. If you have only bashing or boasting to do... please think about it before you post.

Thanks, MH.






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