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They're taking our areas!!! Mother f'ers

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Found this on the CSA website.:mad:

HIDDEN GEMS WILDERNESS PROPOSAL

Vail Daily News for Vail and Beaver Creek ColoradoWILL MORE WILD BE CALLED 'WILDERNESS?' Groups seeking substantial protection for lands in Gore Range, north of Vail, near Camp Hale and south of Edwards Edward Stoner Vail, Co Colorado September 21, 2007 VAIL If you’re in an area deemed “wilderness,” you’re in a really special place, said Chuck Ogilby, a longtime Vail resident. “It makes an area absolutely pristine, and that is such an incredibly rare thing in the world today,” he said. There’s plenty of wild land around Eagle County 85 percent of the county is public land. But that land including its wildlife and water can still face threats, whether it’s logging, mining or snowmobiles. Wilderness designation helps protect land from those threats. Three such areas are already in the county: The Eagles Nest Wilderness encompasses the Gore Range, the Holy Cross Wilderness covers more than 100,000 acres around Mount of the Holy Cross, and a small portion of the Flat Tops Wilderness is in the county. Wilderness areas ban snowmobiles and mountain bikes and limit mining and logging. Ogilby said he supports the creation of more “wilderness” around Eagle County, and a new campaign is trying to do just that. Three regional groups are eyeing 670,000 acres in the White River National Forest for the “wilderness area” designation. Much of that land is in Eagle County. “We’re kind of surrounded by the sights and sounds of urban life,” said Clare Bastable of the Colorado Mountain Club. “The opportunity to kind of get away from our day jobs and vehicles, our urban lives, to be able to get solitude, those opportunities are diminishing as Colorado gets more and more developed. “Wilderness offers the ultimate opportunity to seek quiet, to seek solitude, to reconnect with nature.” Headed to Congress The plan, called the Hidden Gems Wilderness Campaign, is now a draft, and the organizers are asking community members for input. The Wilderness Workshop, the Colorado Mountain Club and the Colorado Environmental Coalition are spearheading the campaign. “We’re trying to sit down with those folks and get a sense of how our proposal looks “ said Lisa Smith of the Colorado Environmental Coalition. Once it’s completed, the plan will have to get approval from Congress. Sloan Shoemaker, director of the Wilderness Workshop, said the campaign organizers have been talking to the state’s congressional delegation, and are optimistic about Congress’ willingness to approve new wilderness. “There might be more openness to wilderness than there has been previously,” he said. But it’s important that the effort starts with citizens, Shoemaker said. “Congress doesn’t act on agency recommendations,” he said. “They act on the will of the constituents.” Piney, Castle Peak, Lake Creek Areas in Eagle County targeted in the campaign include: • Land stretching from Camp Hale to Copper Mountain and Shrine Mountain near Vail Pass. • Land around Spraddle Creek, west of Bald Mountain, just above Vail. Spraddle Creek Road and the road up to the Eiseman Hut are excluded. • More than 20,000 acres along the Piney River, eight miles northeast of Wolcott. • More than 16,000 acres around Castle Peak north of Eagle. • About 3,500 acres between Bellyache Mountain and West Lake Creek south of Edwards. • More than 14,000 acres stretching from Polar Star Inn south of Eagle south to the North Fork of the Fryingpan River. • A long strip of land totaling 3,108 acres that runs along the north side of the interstate from East Vail to Officer’s Gulch. While the plan proposes 670,000 acres for wilderness in the White River National Forest, the Forest Service has recommended just 82,000 acres for that designation. Sally Spaulding, spokesman for the White River National Forest, said too much wilderness might take away “semi-primitive wilderness,” the area between pristine forest and towns. “That sort of place is what we’re concerned with losing with this larger proposal,” she said. On the Web For more information on the current draft of the plan, go to whiteriverwild.org Staff Writer Edward Stoner can be reached at 748-2929 or estoner@vaildaily.com.
 
Response from another site:

Probably never going to happen because of stuff like this(yes I know it's old) Everyone is being pressured for energy sources and natural gas is a big one, and it is in all those proposed areas. One of them already got approved for a new gas pipeline which pretty much rules it out for wilderness.
 
My main riding area saw some interesting steps this summer toward wilderness designation. The road to Jones pass north was destroyed & planted with trees & grass. At this time there is no limitation to sledding, but the destruction of the roads sure seems like a stepping stone to me. Are these same things happening in other areas that are included in this plan?

btw, not to start a stupid argument, but if CSA spent less on deisel for grooming & more on working against these types of problems I'd be more willing to give them my money. I give AW (american whitewater) my cash because they spend it fighting people that try to close our access, not giving us rides to the river or paving the parking lot at the takeout. (I do understand that grooming is needed for some areas but it's money that I'm not going to pay out)

BTW, is there a way to pay just to a legal fund from csa or saws?

Crazy crap going on either way, I want to figure out how to find out about this stuff before we get kicked in the balls by this stuff.
 
Great excuse but that doesn't make you part of the solution, just one of the apathetic bystanders that watch as the things they love to do are taken away, then cry and beotch later on when it's already too late. Good luck with that approach.
 
Yeah, American Whitwater needs your dollars? WTF?? Hope you like kayaking in the winter.
From American Whitewater page one.

The United States Forest Service (USFS) has recently issued a draft rule for Colorado’s National Forests that weakens and removes existing protections for backcountry roadless areas. Starting Monday, August 18th in Pueblo, the USFS is hosting a series of Open Houses to discuss the proposed Rule and to hear your comments. American Whitewater has been working with our colleagues in the Outdoor Alliance to analyze the rule and we believe that the draft rule inadequately protects those remote areas with rugged terrain that provide the highest quality opportunities for human-powered recreation.


In our preliminary analysis of the rule we make the following observations:
  • The 2001 Roadless Rule did a great job of protecting backcountry areas in Colorado that are so very important to the people and businesses that make up the hiking, climbing, skiing, paddling, and biking communities.
  • The proposed Colorado Roadless Rule does not adequately take into account its economic and social impacts on the people and businesses of the outdoor recreation community.
  • Once a roadless area has a “long-term temporary” road, it is not roadless anymore and with it the quality of the backcountry recreational experience is degraded. The proposed Colorado Roadless Rule tries to skirt around the issue by creating a new category of road--a “long-term temporary” road used for mineral, gas, and coal exploration and removal--that does not qualify as a “road” under the Rule. These roads will fragment habitat, degrade recreational opportunities, and negatively impact water quality.
NOW is the time to learn more about how this proposed Rule affects you and let the USFS know that contiguous undisturbed, backcountry areas are important to you as a whitewater paddler and advocate for clean free-flowing rivers. Here is how you can help:
 
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Well, unfortunately my two amin sports have interests that are contrary to each other to an extent. No matter how you look at it I have a huge problem helping csa because I think their priority is out of place. When they do a fundraiser all I hear about is the cost of grooming, not the cost of fighting legal battles. I could care less about grooming, anywhere, so I'm not going to give my money to that crap. I on the other hand had never heard of saws before, are they involved in grooming also, or they just working on land use issues?

I have NO problem giving money to a group that fights for my rights, on the river or in the backcountry, I also have no problem with putting more than average effort in to work toward our rights (I have more than average free time).
I feel bad that some of my money that I give to protect our rivers may end up hurting our sledding community, this is the last thing I wish for (we need roads to get to the river too dammit) but if the sled community had the same focus that AW does we probably would be in a better position right now.

ok, serious question, what is the most effective thing I can do ASIDE from giving my money to csa?

I've already sent letters, both paper & email, to legislators on each list I've seen regarding these issues btw.
 
Motherf*&kers

"Great Old Broads for Wilderness" Wtf I'd like to know the last time these f*cking c*nts even hiked into the wilderness, but I'm sure its their personal crusade to save the G*d Damb planet before they kick the bucket. Gotta leave their mark you know.
I'm not only joining the CSA but also the BRC "blue ribbon coalition". With the BRC we'll have some really experienced peeps joining the fight with us. All this Bullsh*t really chaps my A**. The Snowmobile industry has done a stellar job over the past five years making sleds cleaner and quieter. These Nutsacks could give a s**t, because to them there is no compromise. It's not in their vocabulary to say, hey we've got alot of wilderness to enjoy, so enjoy your piece of the pie. Nope no way, we want it all for the cause. How many of you have seen a crosscountry skier or a snowshoer anywhere outside of a mile from a groomed trail. Never in my case. But I'm sure without snowmobiles to ruin their experience they'd be cruising around 20 miles from the trailhead with their Shoes on. Yeah right!
So, what to do? Support the organizations that will fight for our rights. Contact your senators and congressman and voice your opinion. Go to local meetings.
One more thing: I read an article yesterday that talked about McCain's VP choice. Her husband is winner of a pretty well known endurance type snowmobile race in Alaska (cant remember the name). Might not be a bad Idea to vote for McCain.
Mark
 
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McCain's pick for VP (gov. of AK) has a husband who rides in a bad-*** snowmobile race across the entire state of Alaska! She was even the first gov. of AK to start the race last year ... just something I read in newspaper when visiting Anchorage.
 
CSA Info

Just got the most recent issue of snow scoop. I am always amazed by the amount of sleds that are registered and the lack of membership for CSA and clubs. The clubs just need to be able to show number of people who are involved, if you don't want to attend meetings then don't. You can decided for yourself how much or little you want to participate. It sure does help contest with issues like hidden gems wilderness. I have asked before for everyone to write a letter to Salazar and Udall and to help fund the right to ride (CSA).
We can all help stop this. ;)
 
Response from another site:

Probably never going to happen because of stuff like this(yes I know it's old) Everyone is being pressured for energy sources and natural gas is a big one, and it is in all those proposed areas. One of them already got approved for a new gas pipeline which pretty much rules it out for wilderness.

to bad HCCA already filed an injunction to stop it, and the injunction was granted without the Gunnison county leg of that pipeline they have nowhere to go with that new pipe line It will never happen

Gunnison county is full of LP as well as areas you are talking about we will never see a LP well go in all the permits were bought by HCCA or forfeited this last yr
 
high country citizens alliance... http://www.hccaonline.org/

I have no stake or interest in mining or drilling up there, but it all seems to get wrapped up together by these people, so I guess I like mining! It's a dirty, but necessary buisness and all the people in that HCCA.org benifit from it just like everybody else. It's difficult to take people like that seriously because they are part and parcel just as responsible as everyone else for what we extract from the earth. By their actions of being a part of society and leading the same lifestyle as everyone else they are saying it's OK for our industries to do what's necessary to maintain that lifestyle. They are hypocrites because they benefit from our modern lifestyle, but they don't want the price we pay for that to affect them in any adverse way. They have the NIMBY syndrome. I empathize with them but I don't respect them or their motives, and if they want to lock it up as wilderness for their own personal use, well, I guess I'm a miner lover!
 
Yeah, I really can't understand the apathy when we keep losing riding areas left and right. It's like 22 bucks a year to join CSA and gets you on the roll call of CO sledders. That alone makes a difference when our representatives see how many of their constituents are members. If that's all you do, it still helps! Here is their online membership form page http://www.coloradosledcity.com/merchant.ihtml?id=227&step=2
http://www.coloradosledcity.com/merchant.ihtml?id=227&step=2

Allright you bastards, I guess I'll have to shell out my $22 to csa even though I completely disagree with where most of their money goes. Like you guys said if nothing else I guess it shows an increased number of riders that are fighting for the right to use areas.
 
What do we do?
We start ignoring the wilderness designation and ride anyway. We make it SO expensive to enforce they give up.

That is NOT the way to fight this.

That would reinforce it.


Call/write your representative. Contact the groups sponsoring this and let them know about your dissatisfaction.
GET INVOLVED.

ON top of CSA get involved locally. The local Snowmobile club in the Vail Valley is the Holy Cross Powder Hounds. PM "Bugito" on snowest, he is the Club President this year. He can help you get signed up with the club.

http://holycrosspowderhounds.com/snowdrags.htm

That website was for the snow drags but it should get updated soon with membership information. Holy Cross Powder Hounds currently groom the Piney Lakes/Red Mountain area. This ensures that the area can remain open. It is all paid for by membership dues. This year they received a grant from CSA which will allow them to buy a BRAND new groomer (this is paid for by state CSU dues). I believe it is the Vail Valley Task Force that grooms Vail Pass. Nova Guides does some as well. Contact both groups.

BTW... from this map it does not look like the Vail Pass area is in Danger. Chicago Ridge by Ski Cooper is in Danger along with the Piney/Red Mountain areas.

Vail-Dillon-03.20.08.jpg



Flat tops is in some serious danger:
Flat-Tops-03.20.08.jpg
 
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Ollie has it down, when all our areas are banned there will be the folks that remember the good ole days of sledding and then there will be the ones that ride. Ollie and I have rode somewheres around 5000 miles togather and the fact is when they ban us from riding we will ride another 5000 miles at least. and yes we fund the "right to ride" but it seems it is not enough. the other side use these tactics and they are killing us, look up ELF for example. Or veiw ranger on sleds thread catch me if you can.
 
ok i crunched sum numbers and there is some where around 3,718,000 acres of wilderness in Co, so unless your a very serious back packer your never going to see a quarter of that. Plus half of those lib f*cks prob dont even camp.

as for just breaking the rules and just riding in the protected areas while im guilty of it now and agian thats just fuel for the fire.

Soo i think we all should join arms and start putting these fools who just want to take away land in concrete boots at the bottom of the nearest lake!
 
There is an "open house" for the proposed colorado roadless rule in Steamboat Springs Thurday Sept 11th 5-8:30pm at the community center at 1605 Lincoln Ave. for more info call: 303-589-3322
 
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