The total is up to (3) this weekend in MT.

[Powderhound]

To me bluebear, thats one of the biggest things that a guy has to look out for. I find myself constantly looking around, even though we are sticking to the "safe" area's, thinking... "Yeah, thats never slid...but..." It seems like most of these guys must be going into there normal territory, somewhat comfortable with things, and it costs them their lives. Thats what scares me, even when you feel that it is safe... is it?

You bring up a great point. I am constantly watching the slopes as we go by them knowing that I am not climbing. My question is what if it has allready slid? I have people saying look it has already slid it is safe now? Anyone? all this avy crap scares the Sh_ _ out of me

 

[Mountaintech]

Under normal circumstances the hill you always play on and have gotten comfortable with IS safe but that's ONLY when the slide forecast or conditions are safe.
I think we can all agree that right now, this winters' snowpack is anything but safe.

The snow is bound to settle sometime soon.
Dig a pit, check the forecast, get the info from the Avy Centers and if ALL the signs point to a stable pack then POUND AWAY AT THAT HILL !!

"the snow is bound to settle sometime soon" What exactly do you mean by that? You do realize that the predicament we're in is caused by occurences that happened very early in the season. The snowpack doesn't just fix itself by "settling". These layers may be with us for the rest of the season.

 

[Adrenaline Revolution]

"the snow is bound to settle sometime soon" What exactly do you mean by that? You do realize that the predicament we're in is caused by occurences that happened very early in the season. The snowpack doesn't just fix itself by "settling". These layers may be with us for the rest of the season.

It's been my understanding that after a period of time of sun hitting the slope, combined with the weight of the snow itself that a previously unsafe hillside can adhere to the slope and become stable.

At the very least, the hills that are severely unstable will slide on their own eventually and hopefully negate the danger.

Of course this is not true of all slopes but I can't imagine this extreme situation we're in right now will last throughout the entire cycle of the winter.

Maybe I'm way off on this but I remember learning that a suspect hill can "Repair" itself with time and weather cycles.
It's just like that great powder snow we all love to ride in will eventually turn to wet concrete.
Snow changes it's make-up and adherence qualities as it did in my local forcast in the Cascades as follows....


SNOWPACK ANALYSIS
Warm wet weather cycles were seen early this month. This
caused avalanche cycles and lots of snowpack stabilizing
and consolidation in the Olympics and Cascades.

 

[AKtoad]

I rode the flats at Turnagain pass yesterday with my girlfriend and a couple freinds and had a blast. The reason we rode the flats: we are in the worst avy cylce of the season, even the forest service was driving around the parking lot telling everyone to stay in the flats and not go up and over because of the avy danger all day. So from the flats we could see some cowboys high marking on the front right on a slope that always slides naturally, bunch of idiots, some people will never learn until it is to late. I felt like taking a bat to there knees just so they would quite riding and have to go home to the hospital instead of causing a slide. Maybe that is what it takes to keep people out of the hills.

 

[JROD]

I keep hearing about this kind of thing and think about the consequences but this weekend hits a little closer to home.

We all lost a good man in the Gravelly Range this weekend. He was a guy that would go out of his way to help his fellow sledder and did it many times for me fixing smashed pipes and working late hours to get the job done. Kirk was a great and smart rider and again this proves just how much risk we take and not quite know how high it is. The slide was not big at all and the slope was something that I think any of us could've been caught on.

Rest in Peace Kirk! Hope ya find some good powder up there

 

[MARCUSO]

When snow becomes faceted, it is less likely to bond to anything. That's sugar snow folks, that is what is the instability, They can stay preserved by the layers above, a lot of the time it will be persistent till the end of the season. Last year the reports stated that the weak layer got so buried under the snow, they were concerned that it could become class 5 avys and take out everything in it's path. old growth trees etc. Eventually they were finally finding it hard to cause failures because the mass of the snowpack was so integrated and thick. That was in April.

 

[Beartoothclimb]

It's been my understanding that after a period of time of sun hitting the slope, combined with the weight of the snow itself that a previously unsafe hillside can adhere to the slope and become stable.

At the very least, the hills that are severely unstable will slide on their own eventually and hopefully negate the danger.

Of course this is not true of all slopes but I can't imagine this extreme situation we're in right now will last throughout the entire cycle of the winter.

Maybe I'm way off on this but I remember learning that a suspect hill can "Repair" itself with time and weather cycles.
It's just like that great powder snow we all love to ride in will eventually turn to wet concrete.
Snow changes it's make-up and adherence qualities as it did in my local forcast in the Cascades as follows....


SNOWPACK ANALYSIS
Warm wet weather cycles were seen early this month. This
caused avalanche cycles and lots of snowpack stabilizing
and consolidation in the Olympics and Cascades.

You're kinda right and kinda not so right. Take another read through the avalanche handbook and trempers staying alive in avalanche terrain. Things are a lot more complicated.

 

[Original Tetonice]

TTT, this is great thread....keep the stats and the details at the top as a REMINDER.

OT

 

[SLEDIOT]

"This was an experienced group of riders well equipped with rescue gear and aware of current avalanche conditions with no intentions of climbing steep slopes."

Thats a scary quote from the report. These conditions make me glad to live in Minnesota.

Theres a saying for this perception of experience, it goes somethng like this; " I wouldn't put a gun to my head even if the wrong bullets were in it". I dont have any "experience" yet I look at some of these hills that havent slid yet and say: something is wrong here! Like I said in a previous post on this thread. Last weekend we chose to stay off this 1 particular hill, a hill I havent seen slide before. And shazam it mysteriously came down this past week while we were all at work feeding our families. I'm not talking a few snowballs either! The whole FU@$%CKIN thing came down!! Now tell me how were going to get some of these guys to make some choices? 30+ deaths in the last couple weeks. Thats alot of heartache...........for everyone.

 

[m8magicandmystery]

crazy..crazy...skagway rd up here has alot of avys...comes right down on the road..when ore trucks hauled with a 160 thousand pound gross wieght these avys would slid under the trucks/trailers and pick them up four feet..yep every situation has to be treated like a slippery four way stop..it just isn;t safe to proceed cause the fella that you think is stopping is sliding through when your in the middle of the intersection..prayers to all affected recently..

 

[Scott]

You guys notice how many of these slides are down to the dirt?

 

[farwest]

I keep hearing about this kind of thing and think about the consequences but this weekend hits a little closer to home.

We all lost a good man in the Gravelly Range this weekend. He was a guy that would go out of his way to help his fellow sledder and did it many times for me fixing smashed pipes and working late hours to get the job done. Kirk was a great and smart rider and again this proves just how much risk we take and not quite know how high it is. The slide was not big at all and the slope was something that I think any of us could've been caught on.

Rest in Peace Kirk! Hope ya find some good powder up there

Man I think you nailed it!!!We are so comfortable we do not realize the risk!

 

[jErM-OvErThEtOp]

This sucks..
I was ridding up cooke yesterday and many people were treating it like spring conditions climbing in areas that were destined to slide..

yeah those are all those out of staters that dont no anything and highmarking and putting everybody at risk.

 

[Spaarky]

yeah those are all those out of staters that dont no anything and highmarking and putting everybody at risk.

I have been to Cooke, dozens of times, the locals do just as stupid crap as the out of staters.... so dont be pointing fingers like that..... threads like this are meant to learn... not be an azzhole!!!!!


I have only seen this slide this bad once before....

Also in todays Avalanche advisory, I found this interesting....

This avalanche slid on faceted snow near the ground involving a very hard, old wind slab. On our way to this slide yesterday, Doug and I observed two other possibly human triggered avalanches. A large one was on a southeast aspect of Crown Butte, and a small one was on a northwest aspect of Henderson Mountain. Many other slopes had numerous snowmobile tracks, and this is the problem. Weak faceted snow exists near the ground on all aspects and is covered by thick slabs which make it difficult to trigger an avalanche. Rangers in Yellowstone National Park at Sylvan pass have found similar conditions. Many skiers and riders are safely playing on steep slopes, but we are faced with a low frequency/high consequence situation. Human triggered avalanches are not occurring on many slopes, but those that do will be large and potentially deadly.

 

[Killerk]

Unfortunately a co-worker of mine was up at IP and witnessed an avy that burried a guy up to his waist... After helping the group and making sure he was OK, they rode to the other side of the hill only to see a life flight helicopter and someone who was not so lucky.
He said the 2 avalanches occured at the same time or very close to the same time on almost direct oposite sides of the hill.
This is second hand info and I don't have all of the details.
He said they witnessed signs of slides and saw a small one.
He also said there were people climbing in areas they had no business being in.
He is still shook up and has a new understanding of the dangers.
He even said the first day they thought there was no danger so he didn't wear his beacon the second day.
Please be safe, smart, and most of all think about your families and return home safely to them.

 

[Bacon]

yeah those are all those out of staters that dont no anything and highmarking and putting everybody at risk.

Hey Mr. smartypants, it just so happens that the guy that got killed is from Montana and one of my buddies from North Dakota helped dig him out. There are just as many dumba$$es from all states. We ride in the mountains as much as some people from mountain states. It's just that we live 12 hours away. Very sad for the guy that got killed. I guess his wife was there when they pulled him out.

 

[MTdream]

always IMPERATIVE that we learn from the mistakes...

I know Kirk (the one taken in the Gravellies), and he was a fantastic guy!! Here is a key to the event though...

The X marks the spot that the rider was buried. He was under 10-15 minutes with his head 2 feet from the surface.

This avalanche in the Gravelly Range of the Beaverhead-Deerlodge NF killed a snowmobiler. The avalanche broke on faceted snow near the ground on a wind-loaded slope. Although he was with a group of 13 others, he was riding alone at the time of the slide. After not seeing him for 10-15 minutes they rode around a corner and saw the avalanche with his snowmobile sticking out of the snow. He was found next to his machine with his head 2 feet from the surface.

Radios on us, and buddies with us watching...might have resulted in a different result here...by the time they realized he was not with them...it was too late....

 

[Adrenaline Revolution]

You're kinda right and kinda not so right. Take another read through the avalanche handbook and trempers staying alive in avalanche terrain. Things are a lot more complicated.

The really glaring fact is that almost all of the slides are down to the rock and dirt which definately throws a monkey wrench into the mix I think.

I'm still not going to play on anything that would kill or injure if it slid regardless of our latest forcast mainly because of the deep slab scenario.

For once in my life I'm glad my back is wasted right now.
I'ts helping me make the right choice to ride nothing but the flats and play areas (When my back eases up enough to even pull the starter that is!)

There's a good reason why Avalanche Study is still taught at the college level and new discoveries are being made all the time.

They'll have to rewrite the text books because of this year's discoveries I think.

 

[MTdream]

dont know if they ahve to re-write the books, the cold snap we got (in December) made almost all the base layer snow faceted, so it is a base of sugar snow....

this stuff will be with us for the rest of the year...unless we get a LOT of rain and it makes it to the base layer, which is not likely...

 

[Scott]

Unfortunately a co-worker of mine was up at IP and witnessed an avy that burried a guy up to his waist... After helping the group and making sure he was OK, they rode to the other side of the hill only to see a life flight helicopter and someone who was not so lucky.
He said the 2 avalanches occured at the same time or very close to the same time on almost direct oposite sides of the hill.
This is second hand info and I don't have all of the details.
He said they witnessed signs of slides and saw a small one.
He also said there were people climbing in areas they had no business being in.
He is still shook up and has a new understanding of the dangers.
He even said the first day they thought there was no danger so he didn't wear his beacon the second day.
Please be safe, smart, and most of all think about your families and return home safely to them.

And AFTER that slide where a guy was buried to his waist...people kept climbing and playing. I know someone from the group that was there on that hill doing CPR on the guy who didn't make it.

There was BAD stuff happening AFTER that Avy yesterday. BAD stuff.
People kept climbing. People highmarking other riders. People climbing on the hill (and the other side) after the slide.

WTF people?