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THE NEW YAMAHA'S LOOK GREAT FOR SNOWBIKING!
- Thread starter barefooter
- Start date
why? you don't think $700 price difference is worth the upgrades the ktm offers?
I'm super stoked that Yami has finally come out with a cool offroad bikes again in the X lineup, but there is still some real benefits for the price difference to step up to a KTM or Husky. Brakes, hydro clutch, more enduro friendly frame, etc.
I love that there are options. I couldn't be happier that Yami has these bikes out, but i'll be sticking with KTM Orange and Beta red until i see these Yami's in action.
That is a heavy bike at 260lbs ! The KTM is almost 20 lbs lighter. Not quite sure why some of the KTM models are not up on their website ??? 450XCW, 250's, 300's. Must not want to sell any LOL
I tried to get through to KTM NA and Canada to find out what was up with that but no dice. Pretty chitty customer service all around from KTM. Thought they were better than that ! I guess when u get too big u start to think your the only game in town and answering the fawkn phone doesn't matter any more. Dummies
Correct me if im wrong but is the new 450FX wide ratio ? Thought they would of made it closer to the F. Guess they wanted a true Enduro. If its like the ktm wide ratios it prob wont be as good as the F or Ktm SX
I tried to get through to KTM NA and Canada to find out what was up with that but no dice. Pretty chitty customer service all around from KTM. Thought they were better than that ! I guess when u get too big u start to think your the only game in town and answering the fawkn phone doesn't matter any more. Dummies
Correct me if im wrong but is the new 450FX wide ratio ? Thought they would of made it closer to the F. Guess they wanted a true Enduro. If its like the ktm wide ratios it prob wont be as good as the F or Ktm SX
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That kickstand alone looks like quite the heavy little bugger! throw that in the trash and your looking reasonable. Also hard since KTM just announced a serious weight reduction on their SX-F and XC-F for the 2016 season so that pushed yamaha a ways back. Also , the YZ still has the kicker also, bet you could delete that and the gears and save a few pounds to make it a fair compairson to the ktm. And on the weight note, ktm went to a factory LW battery, yami is not there yet. So i think they are actually closer then one might think.
The 450x Was confirmed as having the same wide ratio trans as the WR. Its basically a YZ with a heavy flywheel, e-start and WR tranny. Not insanely stoked on the tranny for snow, but sounds really nice for the dirt. With that hard hitting YZ powerplant I bet it will pull the wider gearing a lot better then the WR did with a kit attached.
The one big deal I can see is I know at least locally there are always leftover yamaha bikes that can be bought in the fall for well under retail, our KTM dealer is always sold out before crates even show up so expect to pay retail if not a bit more. Not like this helps guys for this winter, but I think it could play well for the future snowbikers.
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capulin overdrive
Well-known member
Competition is good for us!
KTM has gotten sappy with pricing, and dealers not dealing.
Easy say only $700 more, but by the time you get a better deal on the Yamaha it's probably more like $1500 to 2000. Plus tax on that extra money.
Trying to find a dealer to give you a Euro map vs Yamaha's user friendly ignition.
I still went Orange, but I sure as heck ain't all warm and fuzzy about like my older bikes.
KTM has gotten sappy with pricing, and dealers not dealing.
Easy say only $700 more, but by the time you get a better deal on the Yamaha it's probably more like $1500 to 2000. Plus tax on that extra money.
Trying to find a dealer to give you a Euro map vs Yamaha's user friendly ignition.
I still went Orange, but I sure as heck ain't all warm and fuzzy about like my older bikes.
I like the electric start... and the high output stator.
Like Wheelhouse said... the kickstand, battery, kickstarter, are good for easy weight drop.
Wonder what the stripped weight of the 450 FX... ie, what is the weight of the 450FX when you've readied it for a snowbike kit... compared to the KTM of the same weight??
What is the HP output of this bad boy?
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Like Wheelhouse said... the kickstand, battery, kickstarter, are good for easy weight drop.
Wonder what the stripped weight of the 450 FX... ie, what is the weight of the 450FX when you've readied it for a snowbike kit... compared to the KTM of the same weight??
What is the HP output of this bad boy?
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i'm also surprised they didn't do e-start on the yz250X. I can't think of another 2 stroke enduro race bike out there currently that doesn't have e-start. It's a dead-engine-holeshot secret weapon on my Beta!
That stinks to hear about KTM's going for such high prices some places. I also wait a few months around here and pickup holdovers at the end of summer for attractive prices w/ no freight or setup fees. Just have to be patient is all.
That stinks to hear about KTM's going for such high prices some places. I also wait a few months around here and pickup holdovers at the end of summer for attractive prices w/ no freight or setup fees. Just have to be patient is all.
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barefooter
Well-known member
I don't know where you US guys get a $700 difference.
Just phone my dealer here. Price of the new YX450FX out the door is $10,559 all in including GST. You cannot get a 450XC anything less that $13,249 all in up here, IF YOU CAN GET ONE. There are exactly 6 450xc's coming up to 3 separate dealers, in a trading area up here of 2,500,00 people. I had to go down to the US to get one last fall. No stock and no negotiating with a dealer on price.
I will grant you the clutch. The KTM's are awesome.
But in my world - I will take a bulletproof Yammy engine any day. Seems like every KTM 4 stroke looks tired when it hits 100 hours. But the Yammy's always seem to hold up better.
Just phone my dealer here. Price of the new YX450FX out the door is $10,559 all in including GST. You cannot get a 450XC anything less that $13,249 all in up here, IF YOU CAN GET ONE. There are exactly 6 450xc's coming up to 3 separate dealers, in a trading area up here of 2,500,00 people. I had to go down to the US to get one last fall. No stock and no negotiating with a dealer on price.
I will grant you the clutch. The KTM's are awesome.
But in my world - I will take a bulletproof Yammy engine any day. Seems like every KTM 4 stroke looks tired when it hits 100 hours. But the Yammy's always seem to hold up better.
i'm like'n the sound of this bike
e start on the YZ450 motor...........a must at my age
Yamaha engine reliability.......hate sno shoe'n out of the high country
wide ratio................. exactly what I'm after for seeing the world at speed
big generator.................. warm grips AND seat warmer, toss lights
yam dealer friendly deals............hello
exact replacement for my old wr/yz topend 04 zillion hour stone cold reliable occasional e start
I am now well schooled on the do's and don'ts and innerds on orange bikes and I don't think I will do them, so back to blue.
e start on the YZ450 motor...........a must at my age
Yamaha engine reliability.......hate sno shoe'n out of the high country
wide ratio................. exactly what I'm after for seeing the world at speed
big generator.................. warm grips AND seat warmer, toss lights
yam dealer friendly deals............hello
exact replacement for my old wr/yz topend 04 zillion hour stone cold reliable occasional e start
I am now well schooled on the do's and don'ts and innerds on orange bikes and I don't think I will do them, so back to blue.
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dieselpower
Well-known member
HP is 59 or 61 for the 450fx depending on the tune.
I have no idea where you guys are coming up with on the weight difference.
YZ450fx =262 fully fueled 7500 OTD price (no tax)
KTM 450 xc-w =245 + 13 lbs (2 gal) of gas =258
That's not including the 10 lbs of tools every KTM rider requires.
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epicloop
Member
Step up to KTM/Husky?
Really
I don't mind paying less for a better suspended (how much $ to get KTM even close too as good), more durable quality built machine.
Really
I don't mind paying less for a better suspended (how much $ to get KTM even close too as good), more durable quality built machine.
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capulin overdrive
Well-known member
Totally forgot about White Power, but a big yup on WP being not so great.
And don't forget about KTM seats, might as well just put a cinderblock on there and call it a day!
As a guy with a white KTM, and another orange KTM sitting here, and a few more in the lineup before these two... I'd go yammi for snow only without a doubt (who rides a POS 450 in the summer anyhow???) Keep my TE 3 for summer abuse and put that yammi in the trailer in the summer!
Guess price differences are bigger in Canuckistan, but around here it's about the same price. I could have had a husqy 450 this year for 8k, and I'd think that's about what I'd get the fx for.
Nice to see options! an estart bike that's not that turd of a WR is going to sell well! (wish it had a light though)
Guess price differences are bigger in Canuckistan, but around here it's about the same price. I could have had a husqy 450 this year for 8k, and I'd think that's about what I'd get the fx for.
Nice to see options! an estart bike that's not that turd of a WR is going to sell well! (wish it had a light though)
i'm very curious to see how the Yami 450X does in the snow. I hope to see one out there. The trans is my only concern at this point. Maybe it will be perfect? Don't know why its not a 6 speed though? Can't argue about Yami reliability, that's for sure.
As for suspension - we are purely talking snow here. So i don't think anyone can complain about the WPs in the winter time. They seem to work just dandy in snow. As for the summer usage, well yes - you are correct. I hated the 4CS fork on my 14 Berg. Harsh and too soft. Worst of both worlds! ha ha. With $400 in suspenion work they are very imrpessive though, almost as good as stock SSS's.
As for suspension - we are purely talking snow here. So i don't think anyone can complain about the WPs in the winter time. They seem to work just dandy in snow. As for the summer usage, well yes - you are correct. I hated the 4CS fork on my 14 Berg. Harsh and too soft. Worst of both worlds! ha ha. With $400 in suspenion work they are very imrpessive though, almost as good as stock SSS's.
Since the new WR also uses the YZ rearward facing motor, there isn't as much of a gap between the WR and FX (less so than compared to the 5 valve 2015 WR). The weight difference between the new WR and the FX looks to be only about the extra weight for the lights, computer display, radiator fan (9 pounds total). They say the new WR is tuned for midrange, so yes, still a powerband difference that would likely make the FX more appropriate for snowbike, but otherwise the WR and FX are about the same bike with just a few tuning and bolt on differences.
Same:
- Rearward facing engine (but not tune)
- Frame
- Kickstand
- Suspension Springs (but not valving)
- Same newly designed electric start
- Electric output
- Same new clutch (different than YZ)
- 2.0 gallon gas tank
- O-ring chain (Yamaha site claims both get O-ring though some media outlets say only the WR gets O-ring)
- Same 21" front and 18" rear wheels (though different tires. YZ has 19" rear wheel)
- Same skidplate
- Same overall length, ground clearance, etc. (YZ is different; possibly due to different wheel/tire sizes?)
Differences that I could find:
- WR gets headlight, LED taillight, LCD race computer
- WR has Radiator Fan (accessory for the FX)
- WR Green compliant with baffled muffler and spark arrestor
- FX has repackable aluminum YZ muffler
- WR with airbox resonator (for noise reduction?)
- Different engine Tune
- You can not use the GYTR powertuner on the WR.
- Model specific engine mounts
- 9 pound weight difference
WR claimed wet weight: 271 MSRP: $8,990
FX claimed wet weight: 262 MSRP: $8,890
YZ claimed wet weight: 247 MSRP: $8,590
Regarding the wide ratio transmission, some will love it and some will not since that is the way it is now with currently available bikes from various manufacturers. It seems like more aggressive riders seem to like banging gears and always being in the perfect gear/powerband of a close ratio while more relaxed riders seem to prefer a wide ratio with the associated "less shifting" but with the inherent trade off of sometimes having bigger than ideal ratio steps. Personally, I prefer wide ratio, at least on the 500+cc bikes. I need more seat time on 450 close ratio and 450 wide ratio to compare those transmissions on a 450.
So it seems like this bike will appeal to some riders and not others based on the transmission alone. Once (and if) they ever put electric start on a YZ (close ratio tran), then you'll cover both types of riders.
If strictly comparing to the newly redesigned WR, I think the FX wins out mainly due to power and tunability (GYTR). Lights aren't a big deal as most people that want headlights go with LED lightbar anyway. LED tail light might be nice but not as nice as a brakelight which would be aftermarket so still no WR advantage when it comes to lights.
I've not riden a YZ with the front airbox opened up, like is needed for snowbike, but the noise seems like an issue and so could be with the new FX and new WR. Figure out a way to open up the airbox but deflect the noise without having snow issues and these will be an interesting choice.
Same:
- Rearward facing engine (but not tune)
- Frame
- Kickstand
- Suspension Springs (but not valving)
- Same newly designed electric start
- Electric output
- Same new clutch (different than YZ)
- 2.0 gallon gas tank
- O-ring chain (Yamaha site claims both get O-ring though some media outlets say only the WR gets O-ring)
- Same 21" front and 18" rear wheels (though different tires. YZ has 19" rear wheel)
- Same skidplate
- Same overall length, ground clearance, etc. (YZ is different; possibly due to different wheel/tire sizes?)
Differences that I could find:
- WR gets headlight, LED taillight, LCD race computer
- WR has Radiator Fan (accessory for the FX)
- WR Green compliant with baffled muffler and spark arrestor
- FX has repackable aluminum YZ muffler
- WR with airbox resonator (for noise reduction?)
- Different engine Tune
- You can not use the GYTR powertuner on the WR.
- Model specific engine mounts
- 9 pound weight difference
WR claimed wet weight: 271 MSRP: $8,990
FX claimed wet weight: 262 MSRP: $8,890
YZ claimed wet weight: 247 MSRP: $8,590
Regarding the wide ratio transmission, some will love it and some will not since that is the way it is now with currently available bikes from various manufacturers. It seems like more aggressive riders seem to like banging gears and always being in the perfect gear/powerband of a close ratio while more relaxed riders seem to prefer a wide ratio with the associated "less shifting" but with the inherent trade off of sometimes having bigger than ideal ratio steps. Personally, I prefer wide ratio, at least on the 500+cc bikes. I need more seat time on 450 close ratio and 450 wide ratio to compare those transmissions on a 450.
So it seems like this bike will appeal to some riders and not others based on the transmission alone. Once (and if) they ever put electric start on a YZ (close ratio tran), then you'll cover both types of riders.
If strictly comparing to the newly redesigned WR, I think the FX wins out mainly due to power and tunability (GYTR). Lights aren't a big deal as most people that want headlights go with LED lightbar anyway. LED tail light might be nice but not as nice as a brakelight which would be aftermarket so still no WR advantage when it comes to lights.
I've not riden a YZ with the front airbox opened up, like is needed for snowbike, but the noise seems like an issue and so could be with the new FX and new WR. Figure out a way to open up the airbox but deflect the noise without having snow issues and these will be an interesting choice.
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so Im confused ,,is the FX transmission like a XC or an SX or a XCW?? guess I could source a YZ tranny and swap out the gears now? But since I don't convert the bike to summer use, not sure the weight is noticeable when you take all the big stuff off any way, If light weight is what I'm after I think I would have to get a YETI,, Durability is what I'm after!!!I can't Imagine riding a 265 pound four stroke bike in the summer any way,KTM 300 or beta 300RR for me in the summer tried my 570 berg one time in the dirt and the Damn thing tried to KILL me in the Colorado high country!
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by the sounds of it, somewhere between an XC and XCW trans. XCW all are 6 speeds though. still don't why Yami refuses to do 6 speeds. so annoying. Has anyone ever complained about having too many gears!??!? maybe, but i've never heard of it.
correct me if i'm wrong, but the FX and WR have the same trans ratios, correct?
