Team Tied

[lancelarue]

Anybody tried experimenting dropping spring pressures on the Team Tied to get more sensitivity. Clutch works pretty good, just seems "muscle bound".
Won't shift out under light loads like I'd like to see.
Works good in the deep & steep, nice & cool running.
Lightest I've run so far is 73 61.46 with a 120X220 spring. I'm going to drop another 20#'s both ends and keep going down until it won't handle the load.
Just wonder who's already been there and what they found.
Currently on a 800 mod Skidoo, originally on a 860. 151" tracks - Revs.

 

[holman25]

need help too

I have a 06learners rev with a 950 twin. About 180a hp. Just put the tied on it and I have a 70-59-46learners with a black white spring. It is running super hot. Alignment is good. Any suggestions. I have been trying to call ream for weeks but cannot get an awnseir. Any help?

 

[lancelarue]

Team Tied / Ski-doo

We tried some more tuning on the Team Tied yesterday.
Here's the sled
2005 Summit 151" 800 mod
19X47 gears
Clicker 1 (sea level)
415 ramps, Thunder arms, 2 mm rollers, 100X320 spring
Started out with 76 61.46 w/ 140X240 spring. Primary running a little hotter.
Won't shift out. ( needed more weight)
Debated whether to drop spring or go up on helix. Went up on the helix to 76 63.46 same spring.
Clutches balanced out almost perfect for heat, nice upshift, ok backshift ( at the limit). Finally started working the motor. This was @ sea level w/ 3' to 4' of heavy fresh on huge base. Level ground. Didn't think it would pull it on the mountain, but, son called me from up on the hill, surprise, only fell off from 8,250 to 8,150. Still had backshift.
( that was impressive).BUT, both clutches running hot. Kid clicked up to #3 & said it just started getting buzzy. Found the limit where Team won't hang onto the belt, so now we're going back to 61* angle and drop to 100X200 spring in the Team. Start over. We''ll see-----Trying to find that "happy" spot with good upshift & backshift & low heat on the mountain steep & deep. Never had problems with this clutch grabbing the belt on the 61* angle wfo in the deep, just didn't have the sensitivity.

 

[lancelarue]

More on the Tied:
Went back to the 61* angle and went to the lightest spring I had, 100X200.
Really big air day today so lots of hp. 31.4" 14* here @ sea level.

Last pull the kid made is probably 1,000' long to 5,500' WFO fairly steep, kid says trenching pretty good with massive hook-up.
Sea level 8,200 rpm
5,500' 8,150 rpm Clutches about even for heat, hands on for 3 to 4 seconds.
Amazingly enough, all on clicker 1??? !!!! Now we're seeing some sensitivity in the driven.
Calling for more snow end of the week. We'll see what it does in the fresh HEAVY--

 

[briand]

Very interesting lancelarue. I've been away from snowest and sledding for 2 years. I'm getting back into sledding this year with my 03 800 edge Polaris. Before I stop sledding 2 years ago I purchase a team tied and experimented with it a lot but i only had a 73-65.46 and 73-63.46 helix to try. With all my testing i needed a heavier spring set to run these helixes. I had thought of the 61 angle and thought that with this angle It might work a lot better with the lighter springs. Question i have for you is I don't have a 100-200 spring rate but I do have a 100-150 rate spring (red-yellow teamspring). Do you think its worth a try or do you think it might fall flat on the top end? I'm thinking it might work.

 

[lancelarue]

I don't think a 150# finish is going to work in the mountains with that helix and a P-85 in front. They have more shift than the TRA on top.
If I had to take a wild guess, on your sled, I'd go with a 220# finish in the Team with that 61* and see-------
I don't know your set-up so I'm wingin it here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[briand]

Motor stock with SLP single And Turbo Als Thing can
SLP big air kit.
VFOrce reeds
gearing 19/43

Primary

120-280 epi white spring
68 gram MTX weights with 8 grams in the tip and 0 grams in the mid hole.

Secondary

73-63.46 2 derlin washers
160-240 black purple spring. ( with the derlin washers spring rate more like170-250)

162 X 15 X 2.5" paddle track 3" pitch 8 tooth drivers 19/43 gearing.

No setup yet for mountain riding I did not get a chance to try this in the mountains but will in a few days to a week away.

This was my best setup for running at home at 2500 ft but no mountains.

I had thought of this setup to try in the mountains

Primary
Polaris weights 66,64 what ever works but would like to use 66 weights
EPI 145-280 primary spring

Secondary

73-61.46 with red blue spring 140-200 but with the 3 .035 spacers in the snap ring and cup area with the 2 derlin washers it will raise the spring tension to say 160-220 and also lower the initial angle from 73 to about 70 and bring down the .46 to a .34 where i liked to run when i had the TSS 98 secondary. If i had the red/white spring it would end up at 125-225 which might be closer

 

[geo]

The spring RATE is very important. IMO that is the backshift signal or strength.

100/200 and 140/240 are the same spring RATE (about 80 lbs. per inch) with different start and finish presures. A 160/240 is a softer spring RATE and will take away from backshift but will possibly feel less "muscle bound".

I'm just starting to play with the Tied and will err on the side of backshift until I get the least side pressure I can get away with. Then I will confuse myself more with spring RATE.

 

[briand]

After my last post I found my notes from testing 2 years ago and found that the red yellow spring did not work that good with the 63* finish rate helix. In my notes I found that if I got below about 120 pounds beginning spring rate the primary would slip somewhat and generate heat. 140 to 160 beginning spring rate worked the best.

Now end rate is even harder to figure out With the 63* finish rate helix I found that the finish rate spring of of 240 to be the best. With a lower rate, i would get heat build up in the secondary and higher then that it would just fall flat and you needed a huge amount of tip weight to over come the increase spring load. (SLP MTX weights).

What I'm hoping for is that with the 61* finish rate helix I might get away with a 140-200 spring and still have great upshift and backshift and work good in the mountains. Here's to hoping?!?!

Even with the p85 clutch I find this secondary holds a lot of performance back at the top end shift. Just need to find the right combo to work.

 

[briand]

Well got a chance to test the tied in the Mountains over the weekend.
We tried a 75 57.46 75 59.46 helix with the red-blue team spring. did not bring any other springs this trip somehow they got left at home by mistake so this is all i had to test with.

First off we tried the 57 angle helix and found it worked ok but had a odd problem with it. When you took off at the base of the hill accelerating we could only get about 7600 to 7700 rpm BUT when we started to get near the peak of the climb RPM,s would climb to 8000. Track speed was down also compared to the tss98 clutch. seems to be back shifting to much. We then tried the 59 helix and it seemed better but Like the springs i left at home some of my primary weights were at home too. I had 64 grams and 66 grams with me and with the 59 helix the 64 were to heavy for it. so hopefully nest time i will remember to bring everything.

I'm guessing here but i think the best helix will be the 59* or the 61* helix

 

[Scott]

Here's my TIED setup.

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270223

 

[briand]

Thanks Scott. How is your setup working out and which angle did you settle on? I wished I would have brought the black white spring with me but left it at home. I think this spring with the 59* and possibly the 61* would have worked very well.

 

[wardy]

rk teks tied helix and spring combo works really good..this is is on a summit rev 800 tho

 

[Scott]

Brian, I am pretty sure I put the 59 in it...and am waiting for the 57 for spring riding.

So far so good.

I do have an old belt, so I am working to get belt deflection dialed in...and it does have an effect on the top end R's when I get it too tight.

I got a bit of squeal at idle, and the top end R's dropped a 150 or so.

I had WARM wet set up packed powder..it that makes any sense. It was 35°.

 

[briand]

I Hope you don't have the same experience that i have with the 57* but I find that the back shift seems to be to sensitive. Like 400 revs or so. When you hit the throttle at the base of a hill lower to mid climb i could get about 7600 rpm then when it get steep and starts to loose track speed the rpm come up to 8050. I don't remember what track you have but i Have the 162 camplast extreme 2.5" so it puts more load on the clutch then any other track that i have had. Seems to loose a little track speed at the top of the climb before turn out. Even though I didn't have the right weights or springs for the 59* it seem to pull better backshift better but my rpms were down to 7800. Much more consistent About 100 rpm's for beginning to end of climb not 400 like i was seeing with the 57*. I'm not saying the 57 won't work for your setup but for my setup I had trouble trying to dial it in. On the flat though the 57* preformed very well so go figure.

 

[Scott]

Yeah, I had read that. I haven't tried the 73-57 yet. When I do, I'll have a report.

I have a 159" Camo finger track with 2.25" fingers.

 

[briand]

The spring RATE is very important. IMO that is the backshift signal or strength.

100/200 and 140/240 are the same spring RATE (about 80 lbs. per inch) with different start and finish presures. A 160/240 is a softer spring RATE and will take away from backshift but will possibly feel less "muscle bound".

I'm just starting to play with the Tied and will err on the side of backshift until I get the least side pressure I can get away with. Then I will confuse myself more with spring RATE.

Its very interesting to say the least, Confusion is probably the what describes it best for me right now. geo.

 

[briand]

rk teks tied helix and spring combo works really good..this is is on a summit rev 800 tho

Thanks wardy Do you know what the angles are and spring rate by any chance?

 

[wardy]

Spring is a red/black not sure what the cut on the helix
Just bolted it in the rk1 setting. Followed kelseys set up and it's been spot on, I ended up couple grams more than he told me to run.
Holds rpm great even on the nitrous

 

[TreeThrasher]

Hey guys, looking for some input on a starting place for the tied for a 1010 Arctic Cat with a turbo. 8 to 10 psi, should make pretty solid power. The motor makes pretty big torque. I dont really have any baseline too begin with because the Tied wont fit an M chassis 1000 cat....

Any input is appreciated!