Taylor Park access closed!

[snowmoboarder]

While it may seem to some like it is only a few sledders bitching please think about the fact that many little towns rely heavily on recreation including Snowmobile and other ohv traffic. Maybe some of you dont know anyone effected but almost dont know anyone who is not effected.

Everyone from restaurants to the waitress who work there, hotels/condos/cabins where sledders stay, to the State Parks, gas stations, liquor stores, and the local tour operators are effected not to mention the boys over at the Trading Post when a riding area like this is shut off.. Right before what is one of the only busy season we have in the winter up here. Some of you have seen the 50+ trailers and 20 commercial sleds up at Denny Creek or Avalanche on a busy Saturday and from where I sit yes snowmobilers do have a very positive impact on this community.

If you need further proof of how much not only snowmachines but all ohv's bring to the local communitys. Follow the link as it is some good readin on the real world impact the snowmachiners have on the economy of Colorado. While snowmobiles only contribute 11% of the total number as you can see it is still a very significant number.

http://coloradotpa.org/documents/2009_07_COHVCO_EconomicContribution.pdf

As I said earlier all we are trying to do is get a solution where both activities can continue. There I would think that there will be a solution reached where we can ride and the loggers can log - it will just take a bit of work.

 

[Drewd]

I have never really explore much off the groomed trails on Cotton Wood Pass, how does one ride to Ptarmigan Lake? I hiked it this past summer but I don't think anyone would sled over that narrow very rocky section I hiked one...is there an alternate route? Now that I have a powder sled, I wish to explore more. Anyone do Napolean Pass in the winter or is that a death wish?

 

[cateye5312]

While it may seem to some like it is only a few sledders bitching please think about the fact that many little towns rely heavily on recreation including Snowmobile and other ohv traffic. Maybe some of you dont know anyone effected but almost dont know anyone who is not effected.

Everyone from restaurants to the waitress who work there, hotels/condos/cabins where sledders stay, to the State Parks, gas stations, liquor stores, and the local tour operators are effected not to mention the boys over at the Trading Post when a riding area like this is shut off.. Right before what is one of the only busy season we have in the winter up here. Some of you have seen the 50+ trailers and 20 commercial sleds up at Denny Creek or Avalanche on a busy Saturday and from where I sit yes snowmobilers do have a very positive impact on this community.

If you need further proof of how much not only snowmachines but all ohv's bring to the local communitys. Follow the link as it is some good readin on the real world impact the snowmachiners have on the economy of Colorado. While snowmobiles only contribute 11% of the total number as you can see it is still a very significant number.

http://coloradotpa.org/documents/2009_07_COHVCO_EconomicContribution.pdf

As I said earlier all we are trying to do is get a solution where both activities can continue. There I would think that there will be a solution reached where we can ride and the loggers can log - it will just take a bit of work.

Trust me, I understand the economic impact the motorized community has on local communities. And I advocate for us on a continuous basis. But this thread started out as whining and complaining about the big bad logging company plowing the road and that was what I took exception to. I would bet you money that the employee who actually plowed the road was never told that he needed to leave 4" of snow on the road.
We've had a similar situation up by our cabin for the last two years and try as they might the logging company never did ever leave a perfect 4" of snow on the road. Turns out it's pretty damned hard to do. The local grooming club (of which I am a member) tried various work arounds none of which were very satisfactory. The end result was that the groomer did very little to the plowed road and just started grooming at the end of the plowed section. We sledders basically did the best we could with what we had and made the most of it.

And by the way, it wasn't that long ago that sleds were forbidden from riding on a plowed road. It was a huge win for us when the USFS changed that policy - not sure when it happened but I know that in the eighties if you were caught riding a plowed road you got a ticket. There was no sharing. So let's be thankful for what we have and continue to work with others in a positive and constructive way and try not to come off as a bunch of hothead whiners when things don't go our way, immediately assuming that our rights have been trampled on and that we're the most important group out there. We're not - no one group is. We all need to work together.

 

[sawmillrider]

I guess 4" would allow you to ride better than the 2" they left? What a joke, this is what gives some sledders a name of being whiny little bitches. You insinuate the loggers are plowing without a permit before you even know the truth. Do you even know the cost of snowplowing? Do you think a logger does this just for fun? Ride on the side( most of us do in this situation, rather than bitching) for the few miles of plowed road. Most of the riders I know are avid snowmobilers, and buy our tags also. The difference is we(loggers) are restricted to the road(that's why we plow them ) , while a snowmobile can ride basically anywhere. Exercise your right to ride alongside the plowed road to where the plowing stops, then exercise your right to ride on many many acres of public ground. Give the loggers a break, they are trying to make living.

 

[wildskies.com]

Taylor Park Closed-Check out this area 1 hour SW from Steamboat, Springs, CO

If you are looking for an out of the overnight stay great riding place check out http://wildskies.com/winter-vacations/snowmobile-vacations/ in the Flat Tops 1 hour SW of Steamboat Springs, CO. Awesome cabin and ride-in and out from the front door. Has 11 beds in a 3500+ sf place with 4 bedrooms and 3.5 baths. Or just call me 970.926.0216

 

[stingray719]

I guess 4" would allow you to ride better than the 2" they left? What a joke, this is what gives some sledders a name of being whiny little bitches. You insinuate the loggers are plowing without a permit before you even know the truth. Do you even know the cost of snowplowing? Do you think a logger does this just for fun? Ride on the side( most of us do in this situation, rather than bitching) for the few miles of plowed road. Most of the riders I know are avid snowmobilers, and buy our tags also. The difference is we(loggers) are restricted to the road(that's why we plow them ) , while a snowmobile can ride basically anywhere. Exercise your right to ride alongside the plowed road to where the plowing stops, then exercise your right to ride on many many acres of public ground. Give the loggers a break, they are trying to make living.

WOW, so you ARE saying that because you have a permit to use OUR federal forest service roads you now OWN them? And following your own permits is too much trouble?

 

[SSWIM]

WOW, so you ARE saying that because you have a permit to use OUR federal forest service roads you now OWN them? And following your own permits is too much trouble?

I don't read that at all. They have a permit. It does give them a right of way. He never said they OWNED it. A permit does give specific rights. Why even debate such a trivial issue. There is still access. You are sounding somewhat like an ENVIRONAZI. Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Sam

 

[cateye5312]

WOW, so you ARE saying that because you have a permit to use OUR federal forest service roads you now OWN them? And following your own permits is too much trouble?

Still bitching I see. Get over yourself. I didn't see anything in the sawmiller's post suggesting that he owned anything.

 

[stingray719]

I don't read that at all. They have a permit. It does give them a right of way. He never said they OWNED it. A permit does give specific rights. Why even debate such a trivial issue. There is still access. You are sounding somewhat like an ENVIRONAZI. Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Sam

Aw Sam, you should take the time to see what thier permit allows them. I doubt you will though.

 

[tudizzle]

group hug

 

[stingray719]

Still bitching I see. Get over yourself. I didn't see anything in the sawmiller's post suggesting that he owned anything.

Originally Posted by cateye5312
I'm sure the logging company would be more than willing for you to pay their employees' wages so that they don't have to mess up your recreation. After all, I'm sure it's more important that you have unfettered access to the snow than it is for them to make a living.

If you are one of the loggers you know exactly what is allowed and what is not. How about you explain in detail what the permit allows and does not allow as it pertains to existing roads and logger created (by permit). If you don't know follow the link I left in a previous post on this thread.

 

[cateye5312]

Ugh, I can't stand it - gotta spit this out there. Logging companies provide good paying primary jobs. Primary jobs in an economy are very important. They are typically higher paying, they bring in $ from outside the local economy, and are generally stable. A logging company with let's say 10 employees can easily pump a couple million bucks into the local economy through wages and benefits, fuel and lubricants, insurance, repairs and maintenance, equipment purchases and the like. Those ten families supported by the logging company in turn buy groceries and gas, pay their mortgages or rent, utilities, entertainment, etc. It has been researched and proven that one dollar generated by a primary employer ripples through the local economy five times or more.

By contrast, 50 snowmobilers spending $250 a day and riding 100 days a year generates $1,250,000. One company versus 50 snowmobilers - which one is more important to the local economy? Don't think too highly of yourselves.

The answer, by the way, is that BOTH are important. But without primary jobs to make up the backbone of the local economy there wouldn't BE a local economy. Don' rag on our employers, they are too few and far between as it is. This country needs to figure out how to rally behind people who are willing to take risks and create jobs instead of continually bashing them. As a CPA, I see way too many businesses that are giving up because of the anti-business mindset in this country.

I toured a gas rig site recently and the first thing the owner told me was not to walk around behind the truck and take a leak. That is forbidden on a well pad and might have to be reported as a 'spill'. At what point do regs become just silly?

 

[stingray719]

Ugh, I can't stand it - gotta spit this out there. Logging companies provide good paying primary jobs. Primary jobs in an economy are very important. They are typically higher paying, they bring in $ from outside the local economy, and are generally stable. A logging company with let's say 10 employees can easily pump a couple million bucks into the local economy through wages and benefits, fuel and lubricants, insurance, repairs and maintenance, equipment purchases and the like. Those ten families supported by the logging company in turn buy groceries and gas, pay their mortgages or rent, utilities, entertainment, etc. It has been researched and proven that one dollar generated by a primary employer ripples through the local economy five times or more.

By contrast, 50 snowmobilers spending $250 a day and riding 100 days a year generates $1,250,000. One company versus 50 snowmobilers - which one is more important to the local economy? Don't think too highly of yourselves.

The answer, by the way, is that BOTH are important. But without primary jobs to make up the backbone of the local economy there wouldn't BE a local economy. Don' rag on our employers, they are too few and far between as it is. This country needs to figure out how to rally behind people who are willing to take risks and create jobs instead of continually bashing them. As a CPA, I see way too many businesses that are giving up because of the anti-business mindset in this country.

I toured a gas rig site recently and the first thing the owner told me was not to walk around behind the truck and take a leak. That is forbidden on a well pad and might have to be reported as a 'spill'. At what point do regs become just silly?

Thank you for this, civil and made sense. Bottom line is it is public land and we all need to play by the rules.

 

[cateye5312]

Thank you for this, civil and made sense. Bottom line is it is public land and we all need to play by the rules.

AGREED

By the way Tudizzle awesome video! Thanks~!

 

[dejadoo]

How far up is cow creek?
Is it past where you head towards Tincup and bypass Taylor Park?
I know the area but not the names

 

[SSWIM]

group hug

I need the logging company to plow the area where you guys are Dizz. The only way this old man can make it.
Looks awesome.

Sam

 

[snowmoboarder]

Hahah wow these forums sure turn in to a **** show fast! Lots of speculation with not many facts but that is the good old Inet for ya...

If you look back all I wanted to do is let sledders know that the road was plowed so someone did not waste a entire day driving up here and seeing if for them selves. The only goal was to get to a point where we could ride and the loggers could log nothing else.

Yea it was pry a simple mistake to plow too much snow and would take all of maybe 2-3 hrs to make a sled lane on the plowed to dirt section. Also yes I have worked excavation for years, as well as snow removal, and even done some logging when I was younger. I also am very familiar with the USFS permit and the entire process. Yesterday a few of us looked at alternative routes to get around the plowed road - so I am not just bitchin, moaning, and making inet excuses but actually working on a solution applicable to both activities so that both activities can continue unabated.. If you know exactly where to go you will be able to worm around the plowed road soon.

It is not just logging thing or just recreation thing - but both and when someone puts one over the other that is when conflict arise. I will move on now as with the press this thread has gotten the message is out and that was the goal. It has been and is still my hope that you all can get out and ride or log whatever you need to !!

 

[OrangeKowJumper]

Could the loggers have left a section of the road unplowed so there was still a path that could've been used by sledders? ..rather than plowed wall to wall or ditch to ditch? .. I guess that's where I see there being no accommodating for anyone else other than themselves and that's what would irritate the hell outta me. . .

 

[snowmoboarder]

I just wanted to shoot out a update as to the condition of the main Cottonwood Pass road as well as the Cow Creek Cut off road as of yesterday.

The USFS has agreed that the road is unusable for snow machines as there is not enough snow on the road to either lubricate the skid or cool the engine. The 3'+ plowed vertical banks that are hard packed there is no way to "jump off" the road to cool the machine and no other route has been made to get around the plowing. The warm temps the past week have melted much of the plowed road down to dirt.

So if you were planning on riding over Cottonwood Pass to Taylor this weekend or over the xmass break IMO you will want to look at another riding area.

If the situation changes I will update. Again I only wanted to shoot out a pre weekend/holiday update so that someone does not drive 2-4 hrs to Buena Vista and then not get to ride what they planned on.

 

[larpy]

What mile maker is Cow Creek at on the pass?