So has anyone installed the T motion arm set up yet on their Expert? Just wondering as I know some were discussing this in a different thread. Wondering if it is worth while or not as it's more expensive then going the other way. I know some like the T motion and some don't. Thanks
T motion arm on 23 Expert
- Thread starter gravelpete
- Start date
Two things many of us found at ckmp including Denis P who had the most time on the expert. It IS harder to ride and initiate, many won't see this now as the snow is soft and you really don't notice the difference. But when the snow gets hard with some pow on top then you really do notice. We tried every configuration with t-motion x and xt, full rod track and flex edge, at the end of the day I want the easiest sled to ride that does not hold me back, Yes the t-mototion delete will work in about 10-15% of riding when its super steep and hard pack it works better, But you have to ask yourself when are you making the toughest side hills on an icy day or a powder good snow day. A quote from Denis who at the time had a couple thousand km on both, "when i ride the expert, I can't wait to get back on the freeride" and remember the freeride has a wider front end. If the sled is easier your gonna ride better for longer. This is why I changed my order to a summit x and a freeride and can ride those where ever i could take an expert. Having said that bigger guys often have a harder time over riding a t-motion sled due to being taller and heavier as it is harder for them to change direction quickly with that momentum, for little guys like me it is much hard to force a sled one way or another. My buddy Theo decided to stay with the 175 expert and he did t-motopn x right away and loves his sled. Then on the front end, people think the ds4 ski is better, it is not, it is different. It sits further forward in the spindle so there is less ski out the back to help with kick out when sidehilling. If there is more ski in the hill then there is more chance of it hitting something and kicking you off your line. But doing this also rakes the front skis out like a chopper so steering is harder. If you own an expert, hope on a summit x or freeride and you will feel this drastically. The keel on the ds4 ski also goes back further and flares at the back, again making steering harder but stable when sidehilling. Switching to the Ds3 ski on the expert is one of the biggest and best changes you can do. Both of these are not cheap, a mistake I made before on quoting the xt at 200.00 but the t-motion x is 500.00 to add, and the ds 3 skis all in can be 600 plus with loops and carbides, one thing you can do is find someone with an x or freeride who want the xt skid and exchange, the skis are easy as if you dont like sell them and lots of guys want that ski. Hope that helps. One thing that makes us lucky is trying all these things back to back and you really do see. Lots of guys just get use to stuff and think it is better, the power of the engine is making a lot of riders miss these points on the expert also the soft snow, but I have fielded at ton of guys who find the expert to be too hard to ride for them. People bought it thinking it was the best and it is not the summit x and expert are at the same exact level but they do it differently. No right or wrong, but ever since time the featured top sled . expert in the case, has been the easiest sled to ride, this year is different.
O
oredigger
Member
Would the t-motion arm on a 23' X 154 bolt-on to a 23' expert 165?
I have been locking my t-motion since 2018 when I transferred from jumping and racing to backcountry riding. Im relativilely big and strong guy and will take stability and precision handling over lighter manuveurability any day. But as Dave said, theres no right or wrong on this one. T-motion makes sled easier to carve and get to the edge for sure.
That being said, personally I feel that riding without t-motion takes less effort from me in the long run. No matter the conditions, I allways know how the sled is gonna react. Nowdays if I try a sled with t-motion, I notice that I "over ride" the sled all the time. But thats only because I have used to rigid rear suspension.
I ride very technical and tigh terrain as thats what we have here. I have been to BC couple of times among the years, and definately riding is a lot different there as (track) speeds are higher and terrain is relatively open.
Also what needs to be said is the track lenght. Difference between 154" and 165" is quite big. I see mountain guys in BC riding mostly 165" and here the 154" is the best seller. 165" is much more stable even with t-motion, but with rigid rear arm I can imagine it can take quite much of an effort to get on the edge. So there is a definately a need for both solutions as riding conditions are very different around the globe.
For me personally 154" expert with Turbo R is the weapon I have wanted for years. An ultimate treeriding machine that has a precision of a polaris but with quality build and powerful reliable engine. Great work from Doo as there are options for everybody nowdays with or without t-motion.
That being said, personally I feel that riding without t-motion takes less effort from me in the long run. No matter the conditions, I allways know how the sled is gonna react. Nowdays if I try a sled with t-motion, I notice that I "over ride" the sled all the time. But thats only because I have used to rigid rear suspension.
I ride very technical and tigh terrain as thats what we have here. I have been to BC couple of times among the years, and definately riding is a lot different there as (track) speeds are higher and terrain is relatively open.
Also what needs to be said is the track lenght. Difference between 154" and 165" is quite big. I see mountain guys in BC riding mostly 165" and here the 154" is the best seller. 165" is much more stable even with t-motion, but with rigid rear arm I can imagine it can take quite much of an effort to get on the edge. So there is a definately a need for both solutions as riding conditions are very different around the globe.
For me personally 154" expert with Turbo R is the weapon I have wanted for years. An ultimate treeriding machine that has a precision of a polaris but with quality build and powerful reliable engine. Great work from Doo as there are options for everybody nowdays with or without t-motion.
well said and ya the new 154 in gen 5 is like a 165 and 154 as one, amazing machine!! enjoy!!!
Yes it will as there is only one arm and the t-mtion skid is based off a 165 now
I’m curious about the original question as well. Say you ordered a 23 Expert and then found someone willing to swap the t-motion arm and DS3 skis from a standard model for $0. You’d then have the full rod track, stiffer shocks, and other goodies from the expert, but with T-motion and the DS3 skis.
Namely, on the spectrum of X to Expert, where would this hybrid sled fall?
I haven’t priced out the difference on the X vs Expert but am curious if it’s worth it. Or if you’re better off ordering an X, or even SP, and spending the money on new/revolving suspension.
Or just stop being so autistic about it and go ride.
Namely, on the spectrum of X to Expert, where would this hybrid sled fall?
I haven’t priced out the difference on the X vs Expert but am curious if it’s worth it. Or if you’re better off ordering an X, or even SP, and spending the money on new/revolving suspension.
Or just stop being so autistic about it and go ride.
I bought some freeride shocks from a guy I'm putting them on my expert front end seeing if I like it more. But man the tmotion xt is definitely for me I'm riding a 165 and the deep days it can't be beat it holds so well on those side hills and steep climbs. But I really wish the front was softer. I'll report back
If you have 34" front end on your expert, those Freeride shocks wont fit. Piggy bag will hit the upper A-arm. My friend did put on Fox shocks on his 34" as they had slimmer piggy bags.
Crap I'll put them on my summit x then
Okay
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Is enzo the way to go for the best all around setup? I feel like his pricing and levels are pretty fair.
Ran Enzo on my 19 and it was one of the best things I did to that sled. Miss it on my new sled will have to email them
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After spending some time on the expert, I agree on the steering effort on the new ds4. While it does track better on a sidehill, it takes a ton of effort to counter steer on a downhill decent sidehill and also doing down hill slaloms. I am going to try a polaris gripper ski on the expert and see if it can take away some of the effort from steering. Other than that, it handles very well, nice and predictable.
