Supercharged or Turbo????

[supraturbo]

I will take you up on that offer. Thanks man. From the sounds of it, we have the same disease!!! So, sounds like the SC sleds are out fo sho! I had a nightmare of a time with my first m1000. Most of it is because of who I bought it from (no longer a AC dealer). Have had some great running xp's. TIME FOR BOOST though! Got a few guys up here in Layton with tAPEX. But, I like boondocking/tree riding, so I think Nytro will be the ticket. Any leads and insight or pitfalls to avoid would be appreciated.
D

sweetxpbeatch, From my personal experience, i wiould go with a tm8-tm1000.i ran 2 nytro turboed(powderlites,impulse)both ran great!both are EXTREMELY HEAVY nose! i'm driving north east in quebec and the most altitude we hit is 3500 feet (we leave at 0 and up to 3500) .Mostly boondocking and lakes.i run for the past 2 years a tm1000(cutler),iqr-t(custom),and dragon 800 rmk(hm turbo areocharger) and i would never go back to 4 strokes even if i have to stop riding!if most of your run are boondocking,well go 2 strokes turbo they are so nimble compared to nytro/apex/1200 doo, it is unimaginable. i got stock with both of my t-nytro (163'' ez-ryde,van amburg tunnel and challenger extreme 2.5") boondocking where my brothers with rmk and summit was playing around me(stock)!!the worst is to unstuck this mass....always carry a shovel and cord with a nytro(boondocking). Last year i ran my hm turbo rmk more than 1500km and didn't have to ratchet at all.......have to tell you tough, fuel box is not the greatest since it is realy though to tune the sled to be driven at 1/2 throttle but for the rest of the power band it is ok.....for sure the 4 stokes are more easy to tune (fuel box) but the weight is a tremendous headache when boondocking here(eastern canada since the trees are realy tight....................you want to climb?4 strokes.........you want to have fun carving powder,boondocking,sidehilling? 2 strokes(they can cimb badly too!). Finaly the best chassis for me is the rmk but the m8 as been proven more reliable, at the end i would test drive a few machine and make up your mind after a few test drive....this way you can't go wrong.

 

[SWEETXPBEATCH]

Some very valid points

sweetxpbeatch, From my personal experience, i wiould go with a tm8-tm1000.i ran 2 nytro turboed(powderlites,impulse)both ran great!both are EXTREMELY HEAVY nose! i'm driving north east in quebec and the most altitude we hit is 3500 feet (we leave at 0 and up to 3500) .Mostly boondocking and lakes.i run for the past 2 years a tm1000(cutler),iqr-t(custom),and dragon 800 rmk(hm turbo areocharger) and i would never go back to 4 strokes even if i have to stop riding!if most of your run are boondocking,well go 2 strokes turbo they are so nimble compared to nytro/apex/1200 doo, it is unimaginable. i got stock with both of my t-nytro (163'' ez-ryde,van amburg tunnel and challenger extreme 2.5") boondocking where my brothers with rmk and summit was playing around me(stock)!!the worst is to unstuck this mass....always carry a shovel and cord with a nytro(boondocking). Last year i ran my hm turbo rmk more than 1500km and didn't have to ratchet at all.......have to tell you tough, fuel box is not the greatest since it is realy though to tune the sled to be driven at 1/2 throttle but for the rest of the power band it is ok.....for sure the 4 stokes are more easy to tune (fuel box) but the weight is a tremendous headache when boondocking here(eastern canada since the trees are realy tight....................you want to climb?4 strokes.........you want to have fun carving powder,boondocking,sidehilling? 2 strokes(they can cimb badly too!). Finaly the best chassis for me is the rmk but the m8 as been proven more reliable, at the end i would test drive a few machine and make up your mind after a few test drive....this way you can't go wrong.

Thank you for taking the time to spell that all out for me! I hear you on the weight. I have a very foul taste in my mouth from a bad M1000 I got from a shady dealer here that is not out of business!~~! (called that one!!).
So as much I dislike Poo, I dislike Cat even more. Hence the lean towards the 4 strokes. But, you are right, it comes at a cost. I am definitely not the kind that needs to high mark everyone and enjoy the pow, trees, etc.
I wish, there was a good kit out already for the new 800 DOO EFI.... TIME and $$$$......right??

 

[m8magicandmystery]

i remember all of sweetxpbeatch"s posts of his issues with his Cat...they were so bad it made me even want to hate Cat and i love mine and it gives me incredible trouble free performance with my mods (bigbore, pipes,head,ported,etc etc)...so its really a stretch to see him give the turbo 8s in Cat a chance...its strange eh how a person gets a bad taste...i have never gone back to skidoo because of their crappy tillotson carbs many years ago..crazy eh ..because i know skidoo makes a decent product now..

 

[snocattin]

Here's some light reading if anyone is interested.

http://www.enginelogics.com/cmaps.html

Mac brings up a very important fact about air density. At equal pressures in a fixed volume, a lower temp will contain more molecules of air, Boyle's law 101, pretty basic stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyle's_law

In an engine with constant 15 psi boost, cooling down the charge air temp is going to allow you to flow more air molecules and thus create more power. (assuming you add more fuel as well). If you read the Engine Logics link above, it shows how cooling down the charge air temp 100° yielded in a 16.3% increase in air mass flow rate ( 27.97 lbs/min up to 33.41 lbs/min). Charge temp is very important when talking boosted horsepower.

Good thread, lots of good info here, thanks.

 

[boosted metal]

I have been toying w purchasing a s/c or staying w a turbo. This year will run a stage 2 mpi s/c nytro. Not out there to race others for bragging rights, just would like to try a s/c this year. My biggest concern is tuning throughout the year instead of riding!! My last t yama was a pro built motor at 400 hp and wrenched alot!!. Talked to mpi and it sounds like tunning errors w owners not the system ? I have heard Randy S many times talk on stock internals w high miles on his turbos w turnkey go! I 'll let everyone know what my thoughts are this winter, can't wait.

 

[hottshot]

Having had the chance to play with Turbo and SC alike I love my TAPEX but I think I am going to hit the SC this year and sell my TAPEX, Getting to ride with The Outlaw Motorsports crew it is easy to see the SC Rocks outa the hole and pulls like a freight train but the Turbo will out last it in a big pull.... that being said I think they are both great but for trees and kicking around I am starting to reeeely like the SC for the response and fun factor, the Impulse Turbo Kits ROCK!!! but I want to try something different this time I think.

 

[opel]

My s/c apex makes my no riding a** look pretty good Maybe I am lucky but 2 seasons and no trouble, even hauled a friends sled out. I really, really think being meticulous when you install it is key. Mine is a stage 1 but all I can handle. But ya never know, I might try something new this year.

 

[Racegun]

If I had endless funds... like you, I would be setting atop a SC Nytro running 30+lbs. boost HANDS DOWN!

With that said I am currently riding a turbo M6.

 

[t_thall]

The first thing is that a turbo has two efficiencies that must be multiplied together. The efficiency of the Hot side AND the efficiency of the compressor. SO just for argument, assume 70% for both sides of the turbo. 0.70 x 0.70 = 0.49 or 49%. While the supercharger remains at 70%, but the supercharger has mechanical loss. Again just really hard to compare the 2.

This is not the case, compressor efficiency is compressor efficiency. A turbo uses around 5-10% of the power it makes to drive the turbine. A supercharger uses around 30%.

And please remember the air is almost always hotter coming out of a turbo because the compressor is very very hot, you could never touch a turbo compressor. You can always lay your hand the the compressor of the supercharger. The cooler the air the higher the efficiency of the motor and the more horsepower. Turbos win a little on the mechanical lost by the supercharger (but remember that the exhaust backpressure and the turbine efficiency of a turbo is something the super doesn’t have against it). The supercharger wins a little because the compressor temp is so much lower.

Any time i've been around the supers you could fry an egg on the compressor after hard running (compressing air makes heat no matter what is doing it) turbos may soak in a bit more but superchargers don't run "cold".

I am not against superchargers (riding a stage one mpi is what got me into boost) but they do not make the same power. They do have many benifits though - easy install, no lag, nice packaging, that do make them appealing - it just depends what you want. They are not the same pound for pound but they will make enough for most.