Stock Suspension W/turbo

[Turbo11T]

Wondering if anyone has figured out anything to do to the stock suspension to handle the power of the turbo better? I have a few ideas myself to controll weight transfer by adding a small fox float. Just wondering if anyone has a solution to the stock suspension trenching and wheelie'ing? Don't have the money to spend on a new suspension this year so I am looking for an alternative.

Also for a newbie to the yamaha world. What is it that causes the suspension to allow the sled to wheelie? Is it to much weight transfer, or too fast of weight transfer?

 

[Pastor]

I have sucked my limiter strap up as far as it goes and then I went even further by by punching a new hole.

The apex rails have a pretty serious up turn on them and when you add the power of a turbo they wheelie pretty bad.

I am going to straight rails and I really believe it is going to make a big difference.

 

[Turbo11T]

Without limiter strap

I have sucked my limiter strap up as far as it goes and then I went even further by by punching a new hole.

The apex rails have a pretty serious up turn on them and when you add the power of a turbo they wheelie pretty bad.

I am going to straight rails and I really believe it is going to make a big difference.

Guessing that pulling the limiter strap way down will give other ill affects on the performance of the suspension as well. Thinking that this would make the sled feel heavy in the front end off the throttle.

Would think it could be controlled at the rear arm not the front arm?

 

[richyrich]

Just save your self the time and frustration of doing all the mods to a stock skid. Save up a little coin and do the m-10, you will be so much happier in the end.

E

 

[Turbo11T]

Any thought on controling the coupling action with a small shock on the rear arm. I think this would in turn give the coupling action a metering affect where as right now it can transfer back very fast, and one would think that this quick action is what puts the suspension at a bad angle and it can not recover from it. Another thought would be a small air cylinder with a flow control on the one end. Allowing it to transfer weight slowly but return at stock rate?

I will draw a picture. Maybe this is an idea that has already been used or tried. I know I could save my money and go out and buy a $3000 suspension but I don't see that happening. I do see me being able to buy a $100 short float shock or air cylinder and using time i would otherwise sit in front of the computer or tv to r&d it.

 

[Turbo11T]

Idea

Here is my idea

 

[uzeste]

If you are running a Nytro put a Cat Float skid in it. Look around could find one as low as 500. Works way better.

Steve

 

[powdermuncher]

The best thing you can do is go to straight rails $350 by ice age

Or if you can weld aluminum cut the stock rails and weld them straight , if you do that make sure to weld a doubler plate on the rail to make it strong enough .

 

[Turbo11T]

Straight rails

Yep I have heard of guys straightening the rails. I think that they could be bent straight and then use a plate to reinforce them. I am looking at doing that as well.

Also thanks for the cat skid option. I am running a vector mountain. With a turbo.

Probally a decent reasonable option but I am trying to discuss things that may make the stock suspension perform better for under $100. Funds are limited.

What do guys think of the short float idea? Is this something that may keep the track on the ground in more conditions?

I think if you look at other aftermarket skids, fabcraft, m10, timbersled the angle of the shock used on the rear arm gives this action where as the stock spring on the yamaha suspension doesn't much support to the transfer area? In reality the rear arm of a yamaha skid has alot of similarities to the timbersled skid rear arm design wise. Just the way that direction that the force being applied from the shocks and springs are in a totally different area.

 

[BigFish BC]

i know some guys were moving the rear arm back some & it seem to help a bit too.

 

[sledder]

I have not had a chance to test it yet but this is what I have done. I tightened my limiter strap, apex torsion springs and I have machined a half inch spacer to go ontop of the transfer nuts so if the nuts really do what yamaha say's they do I have added an extra half inch on top of them I will take a pic and post it tomorrow. thanks Chaz

 

[Turbo11T]

Example

As you can see I added a shock in in the aprox area that alot of aftermarket skids run them. I realize that exact placement is huge deal but this is just for a reference.

You can see that the pressure that a coil over of float shock would apply to the skid would be different directio than that of the stock spring and shock.

 

[Turbo11T]

Oh yeah

Just wanted to say I am not trying to step on anyones feet. I am just trying to give a good discusion on making the stock skid better with little money. As I know there are alot of guys that would like it better but don't have the money left to buy a aftermarket skid. Just trying to improve on what yamaha has given us. Much like Adding a turbo to the motor is.

Also please note I am not going to build these and sell them.

 

[TRIPLESWILLNEVERDIE!]

One thing that really helps keep transfer down on the Pro mountain Apex skid is going to the Avid chaicase. The reason being that with the stock case and approach anlge your paddles are contacting the snowpack with alot of downward force and causing the sled to lift wheres with the longer case and greatly reduced angle your paddles are contacting the snowpack with more backward force helping propel the sled forward and keeping the front end down. I had a 220hp RX1 setup with stock case and now have a 220hpRX-1 and Apex skid setup with Avid case and cant belive the difference in how much better the front end stays down. Staight rails or a Big wheel kit with offset axle set up turned with the wheels moved down helps also. Kinda like the straight rails. If you are running a 300hp setup I think youll need an M-10 regardless. What is happening when the stock suspension is trenching and wheeleing is the rear half of the skid is loaded while the front half of the skid is unloaded. On a stock setup when this happens your approach angle goes to like 35 degrees. You really need have the suspension fully coupled to help keep the front ends down on these beasts. Im sure some mods to the transfer rods would help.

 

[Turbo11T]

fully coupled

fully coupled would be no weight transfer correct? so a shock to keep it tighter would keep it closer to fully coupled?

 

[M5-]

If you are planning on keeping the 151 honestly don't waste your time and $$ with the Yamaha skid it is a total POS. Look for a 144 M7 skid it'll bolt right in drop 20 plus lbs and only cost you about $300.oo. I just bought a 153 M7 skid for a buddy for 350 shipped, the 144 will be even cheaper. Your Fox float idea will cost that and you'll still have a heavy POS skid. I've tried everything with the Yami skid and there's just no saving it.



M5

 

[Turbo11T]

did you try the above?

If you are planning on keeping the 151 honestly don't waste your time and $$ with the Yamaha skid it is a total POS. Look for a 144 M7 skid it'll bolt right in drop 20 plus lbs and only cost you about $300.oo. I just bought a 153 M7 skid for a buddy for 350 shipped, the 144 will be even cheaper. Your Fox float idea will cost that and you'll still have a heavy POS skid. I've tried everything with the Yami skid and there's just no saving it.



M5

if u tried everything did u try something close to this? the sled has a 162 now. just thinking i can make it perform bettter. and the shock im using i could get for $100 used. and i like trying things.

 

[TurboKeith]

I was thinking about doing the same thing with the little float. I never found a way to make the geometry work. I've also ran spacers on the transfer rods to get it to couple sooner. This method seems to work ok but not great. I've pulled in the limiter straps all the way which helps but it makes for an ill handling sled when your not climbing hills. The sidehilling absolutley sucked with the limiter straps pulled in that tight. I've installed bigger wheels without the drop axles, which helped. The last thing that I've done was to put a fox float into the stock suspension. I run it with the torsion springs still in place because my big azz makes it bottom out otherwise. The other more important reason is that it gives me full adjustability on the hill in a matter of a few minutes. By putting a bunch of air in the shock, it really slows the transfer down, but it doesn't stop it.

For all that messing around, I could have just bought an M-10 to stop the excessive transfer. If all I was doing was racing up the steepest hill I could find, that would be a good solution.

The thing I like about my setup is that it's a fun sled to ride. The handling is good and the front end feels light. It wheelies when I want it to and keeps the front end down when I need it to. I rarely run more than 15 psi so it works pretty well. If I wanted to run the big boost all the time, I would definitely spend the money on an M-10.

 

[Turbo11T]

Thanks

I was thinking about doing the same thing with the little float. I never found a way to make the geometry work. I've also ran spacers on the transfer rods to get it to couple sooner. This method seems to work ok but not great. I've pulled in the limiter straps all the way which helps but it makes for an ill handling sled when your not climbing hills. The sidehilling absolutley sucked with the limiter straps pulled in that tight. I've installed bigger wheels without the drop axles, which helped. The last thing that I've done was to put a fox float into the stock suspension. I run it with the torsion springs still in place because my big azz makes it bottom out otherwise. The other more important reason is that it gives me full adjustability on the hill in a matter of a few minutes. By putting a bunch of air in the shock, it really slows the transfer down, but it doesn't stop it.

For all that messing around, I could have just bought an M-10 to stop the excessive transfer. If all I was doing was racing up the steepest hill I could find, that would be a good solution.

The thing I like about my setup is that it's a fun sled to ride. The handling is good and the front end feels light. It wheelies when I want it to and keeps the front end down when I need it to. I rarely run more than 15 psi so it works pretty well. If I wanted to run the big boost all the time, I would definitely spend the money on an M-10.

This is the kinda info I was hoping to stir up for poor yamaha guys. Sounds great, Going to try to find a short float.

Basically not eliminating the weight transfer but tighten it up and give it a control. The Bottom line is that the stock yamaha suspension is built to make the front of the sled feel as light as possible with the big motor. Pretty much would stiffen up the transfer.

Also thinking I could figure out the geometry of mounting a float to the rail not just on the arm. It would give it a dual type rate. When the suspension is fully compressed it would force it to couple faster.

I will post a pic of what I mean in a few minutes.

 

[Turbo11T]

Here is an idea of coupling it better than my first idea. The green line would be the float instead of just on the rear arm.