Steeper track attack angle=better deep snow performance?

[Killerk]

Geeze, I guess I didn't realize that there is one sled that is the best for all riders.
I guess I better overlook the reliability issues, expensive parts, and a sled that is not suited to my riding style and sell what I own to buy an xp.

 

[Doo37]

Geeze, I guess I didn't realize that there is one sled that is the best for all riders.
I guess I better overlook the reliability issues, expensive parts, and a sled that is not suited to my riding style and sell what I own to buy an xp.

answer=yes

 

[SAWYER]

Wow triple 7, your xp has never been beat? You must only ride with botards then. I ride a turbo nytro and it's been beat and i'm not ashamed to admit it.

You sound like a badass keyboard rider, telling everyone to get off their *** and learn how to ride. Maybe you should open up a school so you could teach all of us less fortunate riders.

At the very least please put out an instructional how to video next year. Thanks

 

[turbo nytro]

Wow triple 7, your xp has never been beat? You must only ride with botards then. I ride a turbo nytro and it's been beat and i'm not ahamed to admit it.

You sound like a badass keyboard rider, telling everyone to get off their add and learn hoe to ride. Maybe you should open up a school so you could teach all of us less fortunate riders.

At the very least please put out an instructional how to video next year. Thanks

x 2 , Have both tnytro & tapex with nos ,meth , if that xp beats a turbo well might have to give them up but I can't see that happening !!!!!

 

[mod03rmk800]

Riding in the mountains on hard snow in technical lines is where(IMO) the skill of rider and machine handling performance come to the surface. Soft deep snow is cake.

A guy maybe could roll the case on the 2010 models if worried.

 

[flying pig]

I can attest to what was said earlier about the larger riders. My personal sled is a 1200w/c in a gen 2, its heavy, tall and long. And I'd rather ride it any day over an xp in stock form. I have a terrible time riding an XP. When I rode a 163 for the first time I couldn't make it do ****. Straight up I did feel that the chassis worked excellently, the steeper the better. The guys told me to try getting farther ahead on it, but that made it worse. I'm 230lbs with no gear. I run an m-10 in my sled to control ski lift, just enough to let the thing feel light, even though it definately is not. That sled takes no input at all to throw around compared to the XP, I can even pull steep downhill turns right back into the hill on it, can't do that at all on the 150lb lighter XP.

I think that the approach angle has a ton to do with it. Doo's goin the right way with this for sure. Look how steep a IQ sled's attack is, and they handle great. My m-10 skid makes the approach steep and tall too, sled jumps outa the snow when you get on it, and rolls around with ease. The other thing to remember is their track is wider than the others and they also run outside wheels, track has a wider flex point, like riding on a 2x6 versus a 2x4. Another thing the steeper angle gets you is more track on the ground because you take up less track length between the drivers and skid. The skid I run puts 2-3 more inches of track flat on the ground vs the stock 159 escape skid I had in it before. The m-10 is a 159 as well. I think they're headed the right way with this for sure...

Another thing, maybe they're trying to help us help ourselves a bit here. Because of the avy deaths last year perhaps they think their sled is focused to much on highmarking, or that it has the biggest highmark appeal. Perhaps they feal that this is going to have negative backlash towards their product and hope to gain market with boondockers by building a sled that makes that task easier for the rider. I know when I get on a sled that handles phenominally I personally lose any interest in risking my bacon climbing anything that isn't rediculously tree covered and deep as possible. Maybe they feel if they make the sleds better for that then maybe King Of The Hill is less interesting than King of Threading The Needle.

 

[triple7]

Wow triple 7, your xp has never been beat? You must only ride with botards then. I ride a turbo nytro and it's been beat and i'm not ashamed to admit it.

You sound like a badass keyboard rider, telling everyone to get off their *** and learn how to ride. Maybe you should open up a school so you could teach all of us less fortunate riders.

At the very least please put out an instructional how to video next year. Thanks

Anytime anywhere, we can go riding where riding is really riding. Tree workin, up and down, through creeks, across ravines. The nastiest, toughest crap we can find. No, Im not a sit at home and never ride type. I travel all over. Lost a buddy in an avy so I dont go poke at open stuff where an overweight turbo four stroker is best and I havent ridden with more than 4 or 5 turbo two strokes so not sure what to expect out of a good running one. Wasnt trying to bash other peoples riding skill, just think that if you are a proponent of adding weight and sharpening approach angles you should just ride another brand rather than adding input that could cause Skidoo to take a step back. If you like how a Dragon rides better, get one. But I ride with lots of different guys that all love the XP, so why make a change that you need to undo if you are going to use the sled for what it is really for??

 

[hilinerider]

only comment i have on this is a turbo nytro through the trees creeks rocks is no fun to follow, and from observin was not all that fun for the rider, but i had a blast on my d8

 

[SAWYER]

actually the nytro is really easy to boondock once you have some seat time on it

 

[Himark]

Maybe they are trying to get rid of the difficulty that the magazines and others were having in putting the XP on its side compared to the other brands.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^True, they have a serious stigma with this and need to address it. This is there way of defusing it.

 

[hilinerider]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^True, they have a serious stigma with this and need to address it. This is there way of defusing it.

x2 on that, had a days ride on one, if you pinit and pull you can get there but if you slowdown and let off she goes back down, where as my d8 i can idle around on one ski if want to, flat ground or otherwise

 

[NoSecondChances]

Anytime anywhere, we can go riding where riding is really riding. Tree workin, up and down, through creeks, across ravines. The nastiest, toughest crap we can find. No, Im not a sit at home and never ride type. I travel all over. Lost a buddy in an avy so I dont go poke at open stuff where an overweight turbo four stroker is best and I havent ridden with more than 4 or 5 turbo two strokes so not sure what to expect out of a good running one. Wasnt trying to bash other peoples riding skill, just think that if you are a proponent of adding weight and sharpening approach angles you should just ride another brand rather than adding input that could cause Skidoo to take a step back. If you like how a Dragon rides better, get one. But I ride with lots of different guys that all love the XP, so why make a change that you need to undo if you are going to use the sled for what it is really for??

1) No offense dude, but you don't speak for all us Ski Doo riders. I'd rather have 5 extra lbs than a busted driveshaft and a heli bill.
2) If you know so much about what you want in a chassis....why not build your own?? Seriously. It sounds like you have some thoughts on this subject, have you tried changing the rear mounts or D&R'ing your XP to see what the handling will do? I know lots of guys that think their sled is the bomb, and then you tell them to try one little change and they do and they have a huge epiphany: "Wow - that works so much better!". Some guys on here that have built their own chassis' might be able to help out with XP setup
3) Having ridden with several boosted and non-boosted 4 strokes, I can honestly tell you that they are just as good as the 2 strokes. Have you weighed a fully loaded XP and Nytro with riders and gear standing on the sleds (parking lot ready)? You might be surprised.
4) Coming on here and saying your sled has never been beat. Beat at what? I might know of a sled that could beat your XP in an uphill drag race .......you might beat it in the tight tight trees, but you are going to be taking a butter knife to a bazooka fight on a point and shoot. If thats not the type of riding your do, then fine, leave it to other guys to do what they like instead of telling them they need to learn how to ride. Ya, your sled might be better at flicking around some tree, a boosted nytro like Sawyers will kill your stocker at climbing, ask guys like Stanger etc who have boosted 1200's and are running on par with the blown 4 stroke crowd. A stock 800 isn't even in the same zip code, that's the hard reality. A sled needs to be able to do it all, the XP does things well, but it still has limitations, just like all the others.

I'm just outside looking in.
NSC

 

[07rev800R]

i find that the d8 stays on top all the time and my rev is always pushing snow unless i am on the throtle lots.... but i seen one d8 chit itself 3 times same sled and heard of lots that have also... where the 800r has chit itself but alot less.... mine chit itself do to aftermarket parts failing... to much invested in this rev now to get rid of it....

 

[triple7]

1) No offense dude, but you don't speak for all us Ski Doo riders. I'd rather have 5 extra lbs than a busted driveshaft and a heli bill.
2) If you know so much about what you want in a chassis....why not build your own?? Seriously. It sounds like you have some thoughts on this subject, have you tried changing the rear mounts or D&R'ing your XP to see what the handling will do? I know lots of guys that think their sled is the bomb, and then you tell them to try one little change and they do and they have a huge epiphany: "Wow - that works so much better!". Some guys on here that have built their own chassis' might be able to help out with XP setup
3) Having ridden with several boosted and non-boosted 4 strokes, I can honestly tell you that they are just as good as the 2 strokes. Have you weighed a fully loaded XP and Nytro with riders and gear standing on the sleds (parking lot ready)? You might be surprised.
4) Coming on here and saying your sled has never been beat. Beat at what? I might know of a sled that could beat your XP in an uphill drag race .......you might beat it in the tight tight trees, but you are going to be taking a butter knife to a bazooka fight on a point and shoot. If thats not the type of riding your do, then fine, leave it to other guys to do what they like instead of telling them they need to learn how to ride. Ya, your sled might be better at flicking around some tree, a boosted nytro like Sawyers will kill your stocker at climbing, ask guys like Stanger etc who have boosted 1200's and are running on par with the blown 4 stroke crowd. A stock 800 isn't even in the same zip code, that's the hard reality. A sled needs to be able to do it all, the XP does things well, but it still has limitations, just like all the others.

I'm just outside looking in.
NSC

Thank you for your opinion. Ya a boosted sled that runs right will blow it away. Thats why its getting a hair dryer next year. As far as XP and Nytro weights, I am going to ask you the same question...Have you weighed them?? Equal dollars or close to equal dollars spent?? I believe the term you used was "isnt even in the same zip code"

As far as setup, ya dude. I have messed with it. I have "adjusted" it as I said you should do in an ealier post. My point being that if your XP doesnt sidehill, why the heck sugar coat it, its you. Maybe you can make it better, in fact I am sure that you can. But using a bandaid like building a steeper approach angle?? WTF Its people that except that kind of an R&D "cure" on a 12,000 dollar sled that cause snowmobiles to lag years behind the technology of motorcycles. Why would I want to build my own chassis? Snowmobiling is a hobby, not my life long pursuit. My point is that the XP is a good chassis that gets panned by people that probably should take my advice and get off their *** and go riding.

Obviously this is just my opinion. Everybody should quit gettin there nickers in a knot if it bothers you. If you think the 2010 is the chit buy one. As far as my XP not being beat...it hasnt. That is how it is. No, I dont go shoot chutes with the turbos all day. Maybe next year I will get into that. Until then, it is a boondocker. If you want to come knock the sled off tree riding, by all means, lets do it. Anywhere around the Northwest, choose your weapon and I will meet ya there.

 

[longhairfreak]

I dont care what anybody says the steeper the attack angle on a sled the worse off it is.

 

[NoSecondChances]

Thank you for your opinion. Ya a boosted sled that runs right will blow it away. Thats why its getting a hair dryer next year. As far as XP and Nytro weights, I am going to ask you the same question...Have you weighed them?? Equal dollars or close to equal dollars spent?? I believe the term you used was "isnt even in the same zip code"

As far as setup, ya dude. I have messed with it. I have "adjusted" it as I said you should do in an ealier post. My point being that if your XP doesnt sidehill, why the heck sugar coat it, its you. Maybe you can make it better, in fact I am sure that you can. But using a bandaid like building a steeper approach angle?? WTF Its people that except that kind of an R&D "cure" on a 12,000 dollar sled that cause snowmobiles to lag years behind the technology of motorcycles. Why would I want to build my own chassis? Snowmobiling is a hobby, not my life long pursuit. My point is that the XP is a good chassis that gets panned by people that probably should take my advice and get off their *** and go riding.

Obviously this is just my opinion. Everybody should quit gettin there nickers in a knot if it bothers you. If you think the 2010 is the chit buy one. As far as my XP not being beat...it hasnt. That is how it is. No, I dont go shoot chutes with the turbos all day. Maybe next year I will get into that. Until then, it is a boondocker. If you want to come knock the sled off tree riding, by all means, lets do it. Anywhere around the Northwest, choose your weapon and I will meet ya there.

LOL - didn't mean to ruffle any feathers there T7 - just pointing out some things. I'm pretty sure I ain't going to beat you in the trees, like I said, a different type of riding with something that lets me open it up....maybe. I'm pretty sure we have different sleds. Either way, I'm not overly concerned about it.

I still disagree with your comments like "If your XP doesn't sidehill......its you."

Maybe its the skis, front suspension setup, etc etc etc. Lots of factors play a huge role in a riders ability to ride their sled, not just the rider itself - I'm sure you know this. Hard to say its all rider inexperience when I've ridden with guys who have over 20 yrs on the snow and are still learning to ride their XP after 1.5 seasons. Maybe you are a fast learner and MX experience helps you.

Lots of guys that bought XP's had to re-learn the riding curve (same with the Rev chassis when it was introduced). Some aren't there yet, to some if just feels foreign.

NSC

 

[Motley Doo]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, different sleds fit different people differently! I've ridden a dragon, little bit on the xp, rev's, RT's, m's, King kats, etc...my favorite sled is the old ZX platform. Does this mean all others suck and have no use, absolutely not! I don't like how the zx goes down the trail, but off trail, I love it, and it's just me and my zx setup! I think everyone has a chassis that was built for them, the other chassis are excellent chassis, just not for me.

As for the track angle, there is a balance point as I have found of having too much angle and not enough. Too much, sled will trench and won't do crap for climbing, however, too shallow, the sled gets VERY hard to throw around, side hill, carve, anything technical. Even a bit of angle helps climbing, without some angle, you have no bellypan seperation from the snow and will not allow the skid to work! A track has to be able to trench a bit to gain traction. Again, this is something everyone likes different, personally, I like hanging the ski's a few inches off the snow, makes the sled even easier to control IMO, but some like the ski's planted, and that all has to do with limiter straps and attack angle.

Basically, goes the old saying, different strokes for different folks!

 

[longhairfreak]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, different sleds fit different people differently! I've ridden a dragon, little bit on the xp, rev's, RT's, m's, King kats, etc...my favorite sled is the old ZX platform. Does this mean all others suck and have no use, absolutely not! I don't like how the zx goes down the trail, but off trail, I love it, and it's just me and my zx setup! I think everyone has a chassis that was built for them, the other chassis are excellent chassis, just not for me.

As for the track angle, there is a balance point as I have found of having too much angle and not enough. Too much, sled will trench and won't do crap for climbing, however, too shallow, the sled gets VERY hard to throw around, side hill, carve, anything technical. Even a bit of angle helps climbing, without some angle, you have no bellypan seperation from the snow and will not allow the skid to work! A track has to be able to trench a bit to gain traction. Again, this is something everyone likes different, personally, I like hanging the ski's a few inches off the snow, makes the sled even easier to control IMO, but some like the ski's planted, and that all has to do with limiter straps and attack angle.

Basically, goes the old saying, different strokes for different folks!

Well at least you understand that the ZX platform is the best platform ever put on snow.