SPOT Phones

[powder Head]

Thanks all, sounds like I have the facts, just need to make a decision. 1) Do we need one? 2) if so which way to go based on the my requirements and the capibilities of each type of unit.

You all have been very helpfull. As always this place rocks...............

One more question, has there been any testing / research about either and their possible impact to Avy Beacons. Are the signals on different frequencies and is there any possibility of the Avy Beacons picking up the SPOT or PLD signals. Ok now I'm done for now. This is very important information, if it can save one life, even if it's not mine it's all good.

 

[Fordman]

If you truly need help.... than this is the only way to go. The SPOT is just a "feel good" purchase. $1000.00 bucks for the phone...30 bucks a month for service and $1.50 per minute.... How much is your life worth? .....and it works anywhere in the world....anywhere!!

 

[SnowXTC]

I have had a Spot for almost a year now and I love it. Not really impressed with the tracking and the button layout, but the new one looks really promising.

http://findmespot.com/downloads/SPOT_2_User_Guide_V2_printed_Oct8_2009.pdf

I use the OK button all the time so that my son or whomever knows not to worry. This fall Sean was working about 125 south of home and took the camper and just stayed down there. No cell service. He sent me an Ok each night and occasionally drove the 15 miles to call. I would not give this up for anything. I have been stranded, not overnight, but alone, crawling through the snow. Never again.

My only problem is that I carry my cell phone, Spot, GPS, beacon, radio, camera, etc..., etc..., etc.... I feel like an electronic warehouse sometimes. Just too much to combine together though.

I highly recommend the Spot. Just make sure it has a clear line of sight to the sky and that you test everything except 911/sos before hand.

$99.99 for the old Spot
$149.99 for the Spot 2

Basic Service is $99.00

You really cannot beat it. I may have my old one for sale as I want the new one.

 

[Alaskan_awd]

I was real close to buying a SPOT but after extensive research and reading review after review (real life experiences not magazine articles). Every one pretty much came to the same conclusion, they suck, many people were in a position where they needed it and it failed them, I want something I can count on, not a toy. If the device actually worked, it was the so called " dispatchers" that failed.

 

[TIM]

be careful thinking that a satellite phone works everywhere. They don't. If you are in a deep treed hole, the sat phone will not get out. I have rented them a few times and i have found you need wide open areas for the sat phone to get thru.

 

[Tuesday]

The major downfall is the one way communication, so on that note the sat phone has it beat. The cost of the spot has the sat phone beat.

In reality what motivated me to try the spot was, it would be better have something then nothing! If you where in trouble think how long it would take to get back to truck, search for cell service then ride back up. That taking for granted that someone can actually get out. I would not bet my life on the spot but it does give me some reassurance. The people on my emergency contacts know that if I hit 911 they will be raising full hell to get someone up there to help us, as I have made it clear that it would never be used unless a true emergency. I also quite using the tracking button when in the back country mostly do to a comment from my wife. If it tracks and automatically sends how do I know you are still alive? If I send it manually she know that I pressed it. I do it regularly so if I quit sending messages peeps would have a good area where we where last at. I guess if it kept tracking the same location for hours that may be sign that something is wrong but it may also mean that I dropped the spot. shrug........ I just check in manually then there is no question.

I posted this on another spot thread. What I want are some real world testing of spot1 vs spot2. Sending times in the clear and which is first to loose signal under cover? If anyone with at spot 2 lives in central AB I would gladly do some test runs against my spot 1.

I overheard at a snow show the spot techy say the units where exactly the same but smaller a couple more buttons.

It has a ton of room for improvement but its still semi-handy device. Lengthy send times, lack of indication that message has been received, sensitivity to cover and movement etc.


I also read that if you get roadside assistance activated then the help button is what activates that. Then you are left with ok and 911 on the spot 1.

 

[deschutes]

If you truly need help.... than this is the only way to go. The SPOT is just a "feel good" purchase. $1000.00 bucks for the phone...30 bucks a month for service and $1.50 per minute.... How much is your life worth? .....and it works anywhere in the world....anywhere!!

That looks like a GlobalStar sat phone, which is basically what a SPOT is, same company. Be careful on the "anywhere" tag with any technology.

As for anywhere, PLB's do not work in some countries due to legal agreements (UK is one area): http://www.mcmurdo.co.uk/products/product.html?product_type=2&product_sector=5&product=86 SPOT actually has greater earth coverage and crosses borders more easily.

A few advantages SPOT MAY have over PLB's.

1) User replaceable batteries - You can carry a spare set to be safe. Most PLB's need to be sent to a repair center to have the batteries replaced and re-certified.
2) You can use the device in non-emergency and emergency situations. This ensures that you are familiar with the device and that it functions. A PLB is ONLY used in a life threatening emergency. It would suck to go and use it and find out it doesn't work.
3) SPOT transmits GPS coordinates in real time. A PLB transmits on the 406 band using triangulation to determine location within 3 miles. It then switches to a beacon on the 125.1 band that is used to "home" in. This process takes on average from 30 to 90 minutes.
4) PLB position updates occur every 20 minutes, SPOT is every 5.
5) You can purchase additional rescue insurance via SPOT/GEOS that covers the cost of a rescue and even sends in private rescue contractors in some parts of the world.

For me personally, the additional features and advantages that SPOT gives you (help, messaging, tracking, OK, etc.) are beneficial. If you are in the middle of the Pacific or climbing Mt. Everest and your only focus is a one-shot rescue call, a PLB may be the best option. If you are looking for a variety of features that come with some different advantages, perhaps a SPOT is best.

Get the facts and understand what you need and are getting. One size does not fit all.

 

[deschutes]

The major downfall is the one way communication, so on that note the sat phone has it beat. The cost of the spot has the sat phone beat.

In reality what motivated me to try the spot was, it would be better have something then nothing! If you where in trouble think how long it would take to get back to truck, search for cell service then ride back up. That taking for granted that someone can actually get out. I would not bet my life on the spot but it does give me some reassurance. The people on my emergency contacts know that if I hit 911 they will be raising full hell to get someone up there to help us, as I have made it clear that it would never be used unless a true emergency. I also quite using the tracking button when in the back country mostly do to a comment from my wife. If it tracks and automatically sends how do I know you are still alive? If I send it manually she know that I pressed it. I do it regularly so if I quit sending messages peeps would have a good area where we where last at. I guess if it kept tracking the same location for hours that may be sign that something is wrong but it may also mean that I dropped the spot. shrug........ I just check in manually then there is no question.

I posted this on another spot thread. What I want are some real world testing of spot1 vs spot2. Sending times in the clear and which is first to loose signal under cover? If anyone with at spot 2 lives in central AB I would gladly do some test runs against my spot 1.

I overheard at a snow show the spot techy say the units where exactly the same but smaller a couple more buttons.

It has a ton of room for improvement but its still semi-handy device. Lengthy send times, lack of indication that message has been received, sensitivity to cover and movement etc.


I also read that if you get roadside assistance activated then the help button is what activates that. Then you are left with ok and 911 on the spot 1.

Look back in this thread, or the other thread you are referring to, for info on how the units differ.

 

[sledheadd]

be careful thinking that a satellite phone works everywhere. They don't. If you are in a deep treed hole, the sat phone will not get out. I have rented them a few times and i have found you need wide open areas for the sat phone to get thru.

I would have too disagree. I have had my sat phone for 3 years now and every time we go out I purposely make a call from some nasty spots (always testing you see) and never NOT ONCE have I not been able to make a call and reach someone. With only 1 or 2 dropped calls in total.

I was not sure about their performance before buying one now I'm convinced a sat phone and gps are the best route for me.

 

[Tuesday]

Look back in this thread, or the other thread you are referring to, for info on how the units differ.

Features and real world test are 2 different things. Advanced/new sound like great words but lets see some numbers. Someone must have some side by side comparisons in functionality. I have a unit so I am not trying to decide if it would be useful, just trying to determine if the new unit is any better. PS not a bash just curious.

Here are some of the new features in SPOT 2:

* 30% smaller and lighter than the original model at 5.2 ounces
* New enhanced satellite antenna for improved performance in foliage
or canopied environments
* Advanced GPS performance chipset
* GPS Acquisition light
* "Message Sending" indicator light
* Dedicated GPS Tracking button
* New, dedicated pre-programmable Custom Message button
* Protective covers over S.O.S and Help button to prevent inadvertent
message transmissions
* Illuminated buttons
* Choice of orange or silver
* Included case and neoprene fastening band

 

[Wade]

I bought a SPOT, carried it for two years now. It won't transmit out of a north facing hole very well. That's mostly due to the 56 degree inclination of the global star sats. So, make sure you have a open sky to the south, that's when it works best. And, point the big SPOT symbols, on the device up, and south.

So, the SPOT confuses me on one simple point. It has a GPS chip, I'm VERY familiar with GPS. It takes your GPS coordinates, compresses it, with the button number you pressed, and transmits that data to a satellite, hopefully. Those satellites are bi directional. Why the heck, didn't they just send a conformation message back to the unit???? Does that take an additional antenna, and they didn't want to spend the money?

Anyway, what SPOT really needs is a conformation message. Wouldn't it be great if it says, "your wife has been notified, and S&R was dispatched". Seems like the million dollar solution to me.

After all, I don't want a sat phone, I want a 2 way pager, that sends my GPS coordinates for me. For those that can't afford a sat phone, SPOT gives you a much better chance.

And, don't paint PLBs as the save all. I know people that almost died, counting on them also. And, some S&R don't like PLBs that much, the final ground search is very difficult in a high walled valley, with multipath issues. Helicopter are about the only way to find a PLB, or many hours on walking. They do work great on the open ocean though.

With a SPOT, S&R can sled within 40 feet of the signal, really, and then start searching.

 

[Fordman]

be careful thinking that a satellite phone works everywhere. They don't. If you are in a deep treed hole, the sat phone will not get out. I have rented them a few times and i have found you need wide open areas for the sat phone to get thru.

I know the picture is a bit blurry but it's an Iridium phone. Globalstar doesn't even work. I've been in some pretty narrow places and it still connects! The longest I had to wait to find a signal from the time I turned it on was 18 seconds. I've made over 100 calls on it (for XP owners!!) and only had a few drop.

Here's how I look at it.... If you have a true emergency, I want to talk with someone. I want the ability to talk about any emergency...If I need to talk with a doctor directly because someone is in serious trouble then I want that ability. I also want to know if someone is really coming for me.

As a side note... It's starting to get annoying riding with people that have the spot that keep sending mesages to their wife every F-ing 10 minutes!! It's a leash!!

 

[sledrider]

That looks like a GlobalStar sat phone, which is basically what a SPOT is, same company. Be careful on the "anywhere" tag with any technology.

As for anywhere, PLB's do not work in some countries due to legal agreements (UK is one area): http://www.mcmurdo.co.uk/products/product.html?product_type=2&product_sector=5&product=86 SPOT actually has greater earth coverage and crosses borders more easily.

A few advantages SPOT MAY have over PLB's.

1) User replaceable batteries - You can carry a spare set to be safe. Most PLB's need to be sent to a repair center to have the batteries replaced and re-certified.
2) You can use the device in non-emergency and emergency situations. This ensures that you are familiar with the device and that it functions. A PLB is ONLY used in a life threatening emergency. It would suck to go and use it and find out it doesn't work.
3) SPOT transmits GPS coordinates in real time. A PLB transmits on the 406 band using triangulation to determine location within 3 miles. It then switches to a beacon on the 125.1 band that is used to "home" in. This process takes on average from 30 to 90 minutes.
4) PLB position updates occur every 20 minutes, SPOT is every 5.
5) You can purchase additional rescue insurance via SPOT/GEOS that covers the cost of a rescue and even sends in private rescue contractors in some parts of the world.

For me personally, the additional features and advantages that SPOT gives you (help, messaging, tracking, OK, etc.) are beneficial. If you are in the middle of the Pacific or climbing Mt. Everest and your only focus is a one-shot rescue call, a PLB may be the best option. If you are looking for a variety of features that come with some different advantages, perhaps a SPOT is best.

Get the facts and understand what you need and are getting. One size does not fit all.

FACT CHECK,
The link you provide is from 2007. PLB's are now legal in UK.

You also incorrectly stated point 3.
Modern PLB locate in three ways
Uploaded GPS Cord, (like Spot)
Dopler Shift 406 MHz,
121.5 MHz
and now a fourth way with a strobe.
http://www.acrelectronics.com/sarlink/sarlinkspec.pdf

Research!

Here is a link 9/29/2009
http://biz.yahoo.com/e/090929/gsat8-k.html
Who is going to monitor if they go under?

Another one from Globalstar's own website,
http://www.globalstarusa.com/en/news/update.php


I do agree with you in one point. If you are loking for a one-shot save my life....get a PLB, and with Fordman if you want to be on a leash.....

If AFTER you research you decide on a PLB send me a PM, I have an account with ACR and can get you a PLB.
Would suggest the new SARlink just released this month.

 

[Wade]

Uploaded GPS Cord, (like Spot)
http://www.acrelectronics.com/sarlink/sarlinkspec.pdf

That's pretty cool, that they added GPS to it. I didn't know the SAR satellites where compatible with an extended GPS message.

 

[tudizzle]

they are coming out with a new two way transmitter called the pulse

http://www.geosalliance.com/approved_devices_PULSE.html

 

[deschutes]

FACT CHECK,
The link you provide is from 2007. PLB's are now legal in UK.

Here is a link 9/29/2009
http://biz.yahoo.com/e/090929/gsat8-k.html
Who is going to monitor if they go under?

Another one from Globalstar's own website,
http://www.globalstarusa.com/en/news/update.php

Please share your facts with us. PLB's were still illegal for land use in the UK as of September 2009. Has something changed since then? Please share your source. It would be awesome if they are legal now as it is stupid that they aren't.

SPOT does not monitor the device, GEOS does. This company monitors devices from other companies as well, look at the logo on the Iridium device that was posted above. I don't think GlobalStar is going to go under, their parent group (Thermo) has some serious deep pockets.

With the ACR unit you can "test" the GPS 12 times over the life of the battery. That is not a huge consolation to me.

 

[deschutes]

I am dropping out of this SPOT/PLB pissing match, as I have nothing to gain and it is getting a little too adversarial for me (I love a good argument). I will leave it at this. Both technologies have their pros and cons. If you want a good deal on the new SPOT 2 ($149 + free shipping + 1 year of free add-on tracking) you can order from http://www.sledsafe.com and help support the sport and other sledders. Think of it like a cooperative. The more we sell, the bigger we get, the better the deals get. Check back as I hope to have Avy beacons soon.

Later, and thanks everyone for sharing info and experiences with all the different devices (it has been informative and fun).

 

[powderbound]

I have had a spot for a year. It is without a doubt the best electronic device I have ever purchased. I am on the mountain alone lots, fishing, backpacking, hunting and snowmobiling. I send my wife an ok signal every morning and every evening. Just finished elk hunting over three weeks I was out 10 days. It never missed sending the message. I do send the message usually from camp or a road which tend to be mostly open, but it works in the woods also. I know search and rescue guys, the official S&R line country wide is the PRB, but I also know that if I am in a bind, these guys will come and get me even if I use a spot.

My wife really likes it to the point now she says don't even try to call on the cell phone, just send a spot message. Usually where I am, when you can get cell service it is so bad she only hears every other word for 10 seconds then it cuts off. It just pisses her off. She gets a spot OK and is fine with that instead.

If you must verify that your message went, you can put your own cell phone on your list and turn it on and often the text will come through even when there is no service. I have used this to test the unit when I first got it. The spot battery does not die like a cell phone it is much more reliable.

I do leave the device on all the time while I am in the field. I think that this helps it. If you turn it on cold and then hit the send message button, The device has not found its location yet and you are trying to send a message out.

 

[SnowXTC]

Awesome post Powderbound.

Fordman, Spot is not a leash. Maybe your friends are just too cheap to buy the tracking and stop every 10 minutes to send an ok because they want to track their location or note where the good areas are. Sending an ok message when you start out and when you get back to the trailer to your wife, husband, son, or daughter, is a courtesy. It keeps them from worrying. If I go riding with the guys and am not home before my husband gets home from work and it is after 7:00 pm, there better be an Ok message on his phone. Then he at least knows that I am out of the mountains and should be home soon. I expect the same from him too. We participate in a dangerous sport; we drive snowy, icy roads; and we have loved ones that care about us. It is a courtesy to those we love to let them know we are ok.

 

[sledrider]

Please share your facts with us. PLB's were still illegal for land use in the UK as of September 2009. Has something changed since then? Please share your source. It would be awesome if they are legal now as it is stupid that they aren't.

FACT CHECK Double Check
I made an incorrect statement based on a PDF file that should not have been available (yet) and a check to a UK website that was the driving force to make legal.
Additional research has lead me to identify that the pending law has not yet passed. It is currently under review by SAR, NOAA, equals in the UK
It is expected to be approved by years end. There are places that are talking like it is a done deal, but it is not yet.

With that said I need to clairfy based on the current situation, not the possible.
Land base PLB's are NOT approved for the UK.

Truly sorry for my error.