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Snowmobiling and Avalanche Risk

I have read many posts about people deciding for them selves what risk is acceptable to them. Some of these same people state that their families and friends would be much happier seeing them die in an avy doing something they love then going some other way. I would think that their family and friends would be happier if they didn't die until it was of natural causes at a nice old age. I wonder how many of these people have asked this question of those that love them.

Do people that put themselves at risk as well as risk the lives of any potential rescue/body recovery people have a personality disorder?

Narcissism
Excessive preoccupation with self and lack of empathy for others.
Narcissism is the personality trait that features an exaggerated sense of the person's own importance and abilities. People with this trait believe themselves to be uniquely gifted. Arrogant and egotistical, narcissistics often expect special treatment and concessions from others. Paradoxically, these individuals are generally insecure and have low self-esteem. They require considerable admiration from others and find it difficult to cope with criticism. Adversity or criticism may cause the narcissistic person to counterattack in anger.
Another common characteristic of narcissistic individuals is envy and the expectation that others are envious as well. The self-aggrandizement and self-absorption of narcissistic individuals is accompanied by a pronounced lack of interest in and empathy for others. They expect people to be devoted to them but have no impulse to reciprocate, being unable to identify with the feelings of others or anticipate their needs. Narcissistic people often enter into relationships based on what other people can do for them.
In 1969, Theodore Milton specified five criteria for narcissistic personality disorder in the third edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-III): (1) inflated self-image; (2) exploitative; (3) cognitive expansiveness; (4) insouciant temperament; and (5) deficient social conscience.
The person with narcissistic personality disorder experiences a powerful need to be admired and seems consumed with his or her own interests and feelings. Individuals with this disorder have little or no empathy for others and an inflated sense of their own importance and of the significance of their achievements. They have difficulty understanding or acknowledging the needs of others. The person with narcissistic personality disorder has no patience with others, and quickly strays from situations where he or she is not the center of attention and conversation. According to DSM-IV, narcissistic personality disorder affects less than 1% of the general population. Of those, between half and three-fourths are male.

Just more food for thought folks
 
oh GREAT!

I have someone who loves me who does NOT want me to get hurt or killed riding a sled. IF i did, she would find NO comfort in the fact I died doing something I loved. I'd be dead and she'd be crushed. period. Comfort is me coming home. No, really!

BUT having read that definition of a narcisist I am now afraid that balding isn't my only issue. THANKS! :( ;)
 
I have read many posts about people deciding for them selves what risk is acceptable to them. Some of these same people state that their families and friends would be much happier seeing them die in an avy doing something they love then going some other way. I would think that their family and friends would be happier if they didn't die until it was of natural causes at a nice old age. I wonder how many of these people have asked this question of those that love them.

Do people that put themselves at risk as well as risk the lives of any potential rescue/body recovery people have a personality disorder?

Narcissism
Excessive preoccupation with self and lack of empathy for others.
Narcissism is the personality trait that features an exaggerated sense of the person's own importance and abilities. People with this trait believe themselves to be uniquely gifted. Arrogant and egotistical, narcissistics often expect special treatment and concessions from others. Paradoxically, these individuals are generally insecure and have low self-esteem. They require considerable admiration from others and find it difficult to cope with criticism. Adversity or criticism may cause the narcissistic person to counterattack in anger.
Another common characteristic of narcissistic individuals is envy and the expectation that others are envious as well. The self-aggrandizement and self-absorption of narcissistic individuals is accompanied by a pronounced lack of interest in and empathy for others. They expect people to be devoted to them but have no impulse to reciprocate, being unable to identify with the feelings of others or anticipate their needs. Narcissistic people often enter into relationships based on what other people can do for them.
In 1969, Theodore Milton specified five criteria for narcissistic personality disorder in the third edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-III): (1) inflated self-image; (2) exploitative; (3) cognitive expansiveness; (4) insouciant temperament; and (5) deficient social conscience.
The person with narcissistic personality disorder experiences a powerful need to be admired and seems consumed with his or her own interests and feelings. Individuals with this disorder have little or no empathy for others and an inflated sense of their own importance and of the significance of their achievements. They have difficulty understanding or acknowledging the needs of others. The person with narcissistic personality disorder has no patience with others, and quickly strays from situations where he or she is not the center of attention and conversation. According to DSM-IV, narcissistic personality disorder affects less than 1% of the general population. Of those, between half and three-fourths are male.

Just more food for thought folks




Hmmmm….. Sounds like you might fall under these guidelines. You seem to not have any “empathy" with people who are in avalanches. So what? Anyone who has been in avy danger is self centered and doesn't care about their family....

Right.....

Have fun sitting home while we "narcissists" tare up the back country with our families and friends.

I would think that their family and friends would be happier if they didn't die until it was of natural causes


BTW, you are wrong. I watched my mother die of "natural causes" at the age of 38. I would rather have seen her taken by an avalanch than what happened to her.
 
I think the number of responses on this thread are low because everything that can be said on this topic of "why do sledders risk so much for their sport" has been pretty much beaten to death on all the previous avalanche threads. We all keep repeating the same sentiments, only using different words and expressions. What more needs to be said?
Truly sad that lives are lost but let's stop talking about not dying and start living. :beer;
 
I have someone who loves me who does NOT want me to get hurt or killed riding a sled. IF i did, she would find NO comfort in the fact I died doing something I loved. I'd be dead and she'd be crushed. period. Comfort is me coming home. No, really!


Yes, I can't imagine ANYONE'S family giving the go ahead on a deal like that.
 
Ice Cap,

Youre Bored!! We need the snow pack to settle out so you can get out and ride!!:beer;
If I wasn't bored I wouldn't be on here lol

Actually I am just trying to get people thinking.
It doesn't matter to me how many people don't like what I have to say. If it gets just one person to ride safer and maybe saves a life then it is all worth it!
 
I think the number of responses on this thread are low because everything that can be said on this topic of "why do sledders risk so much for their sport" has been pretty much beaten to death on all the previous avalanche threads. We all keep repeating the same sentiments, only using different words and expressions. What more needs to be said?
Truly sad that lives are lost but let's stop talking about not dying and start living. :beer;


"VALEMOUNT, B.C. -A B.C. snowmobiler has become the 15th avalanche victim in Western Canada this winter.

Seven snowmobilers were caught Friday afternoon in the avalanche in the Monashee Mountains near Valemount in northeastern B.C.

Two people were buried, said police.

"Both were dug out, however one was not breathing. Efforts to revive the victim were unsuccessful," said RCMP Const. Craig Douglass.


I'll stop beating the drum when people start listening... wanna tallk about life? have people stop dying... now THERE's a story about life. 7 sledders involved here. 7 people who either didn't hear of the danger or didn't care. If even 1 of those 7 heard us beat the drum, or read a paper or watched TV this would not be a story. I too am sick of this!!!!! But each loss could be avoided.
 
"VALEMOUNT, B.C. -A B.C. snowmobiler has become the 15th avalanche victim in Western Canada this winter.

Seven snowmobilers were caught Friday afternoon in the avalanche in the Monashee Mountains near Valemount in northeastern B.C.

Two people were buried, said police.

"Both were dug out, however one was not breathing. Efforts to revive the victim were unsuccessful," said RCMP Const. Craig Douglass.


I'll stop beating the drum when people start listening... wanna tallk about life? have people stop dying... now THERE's a story about life. 7 sledders involved here. 7 people who either didn't hear of the danger or didn't care. If even 1 of those 7 heard us beat the drum, or read a paper or watched TV this would not be a story. I too am sick of this!!!!! But each loss could be avoided.

Very true that each loss can be avoided.
But it's becoming more and more apparent this season that some guys just think they are above something tragic happening to them. No matter what we say or how we say it there will always be those who just don't listen. Sadly, you could be beating the drum for a long time.:(
 
If I wasn't bored I wouldn't be on here lol

Actually I am just trying to get people thinking.
It doesn't matter to me how many people don't like what I have to say. If it gets just one person to ride safer and maybe saves a life then it is all worth it!

This tired old mantra..,, If it saves just one life it is worth it...

People that do not ride safely are not going to buy into your post. They are not going to think about it, they are out trying to put records in the books. Just two weeks ago a group was out riding, some jumped off of a cornice. One young man with his testosterone imbalance ignored the advice of three of his buddies not to jump off of it because they could see the rocks poking through below. The hold my beer and watch this syndrome kicked in and off he went. Nobody died but there was a heck of a wreck, he was lucky. Then the 20 mile tow out. The guy who wrecked didn't have any tools, no tow strap just relied completely on others to save him from himself at that point.

You are not going to change human nature and that is exactly what you are talking about. It isn't a mental disorder but if you like labelling bad behavior and the label makes you feel better, go ahead I guess, doesn't change it, doesn't fix it.

You can not save everybody

It is not your job to save everybody

People that engage in risky self destructive behavior are very difficult to redirect and a post on a sled forum just isn't going to do much.

Just because someone in a group dies in an avy does not condemn the rest of the group, that comment of yours is very disturbing to me. We all need to take responsibility for our own actions, the buddy system only goes so far. Be smart, temper your desires to show off too much, stay safe.

Narcissists??? I think everybody displays a touch of that from time to time. You must have really been bored to go there...
 
I guess I get what you are trying to say. But this happens in everything, hikers get lost with no gear, hunters, boaters die from going to fast etc or just plain ignorance. A month ago me and my buddies were out riding and had to basically rescue 2 guys out doing that wake board kite **** in the snow. They got a couple miles from there trucks and well the wind stopped. Now it is 8 degrees they have no gear and they are trying to walk back in 4 feet of powder. It took one guy 2 hours to get 100 yards.
 
I have read many posts about people deciding for them selves what risk is acceptable to them. Some of these same people state that their families and friends would be much happier seeing them die in an avy doing something they love then going some other way. I would think that their family and friends would be happier if they didn't die until it was of natural causes at a nice old age. I wonder how many of these people have asked this question of those that love them.

Do people that put themselves at risk as well as risk the lives of any potential rescue/body recovery people have a personality disorder?

Narcissism
Excessive preoccupation with self and lack of empathy for others.
Narcissism is the personality trait that features an exaggerated sense of the person's own importance and abilities. People with this trait believe themselves to be uniquely gifted. Arrogant and egotistical, narcissistics often expect special treatment and concessions from others. Paradoxically, these individuals are generally insecure and have low self-esteem. They require considerable admiration from others and find it difficult to cope with criticism. Adversity or criticism may cause the narcissistic person to counterattack in anger.
Another common characteristic of narcissistic individuals is envy and the expectation that others are envious as well. The self-aggrandizement and self-absorption of narcissistic individuals is accompanied by a pronounced lack of interest in and empathy for others. They expect people to be devoted to them but have no impulse to reciprocate, being unable to identify with the feelings of others or anticipate their needs. Narcissistic people often enter into relationships based on what other people can do for them.
In 1969, Theodore Milton specified five criteria for narcissistic personality disorder in the third edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-III): (1) inflated self-image; (2) exploitative; (3) cognitive expansiveness; (4) insouciant temperament; and (5) deficient social conscience.
The person with narcissistic personality disorder experiences a powerful need to be admired and seems consumed with his or her own interests and feelings. Individuals with this disorder have little or no empathy for others and an inflated sense of their own importance and of the significance of their achievements. They have difficulty understanding or acknowledging the needs of others. The person with narcissistic personality disorder has no patience with others, and quickly strays from situations where he or she is not the center of attention and conversation. According to DSM-IV, narcissistic personality disorder affects less than 1% of the general population. Of those, between half and three-fourths are male.

Just more food for thought folks

I thought this original post was very interesting, and a great question was asked . . . . definitely food for thought.
 
You have to be very careful around a full blown Narcissist because they have no idea that they fit the bill. The definition of them requiring great admiration by others and that they are very insecure really hits the nail on the head. Lashing out at those who criticize them or their beliefs is extremely hard to deal with because you aren't allowed to voice your personal opinion about anything because the Narcissist is always right no matter how far out in left field they really are. As a general rule they don't have many true friends, they just surround themselves with Yes men their entire life because it gives them the comfort they need. I know a couple and to say they are a real challenge would be an understatement. I don't feel they are dangerous or adrenaline addicts like myself, in fact some are so calculating they're frickin boring. I've found that I have to be on my best behavior when around the whack jobs, keep all opinions to myself because they don't want to hear them anyway, then go home kick back, laugh at what a challenging day it was and have a drink. Getting along with all the nut job personalities out there makes life much more of a challenge than it should be.
 
You have to be very careful around a full blown Narcissist because they have no idea that they fit the bill. The definition of them requiring great admiration by others and that they are very insecure really hits the nail on the head. Lashing out at those who criticize them or their beliefs is extremely hard to deal with because you aren't allowed to voice your personal opinion about anything because the Narcissist is always right no matter how far out in left field they really are. As a general rule they don't have many true friends, they just surround themselves with Yes men their entire life because it gives them the comfort they need. I know a couple and to say they are a real challenge would be an understatement. I don't feel they are dangerous or adrenaline addicts like myself, in fact some are so calculating they're frickin boring. I've found that I have to be on my best behavior when around the whack jobs, keep all opinions to myself because they don't want to hear them anyway, then go home kick back, laugh at what a challenging day it was and have a drink. Getting along with all the nut job personalities out there makes life much more of a challenge than it should be.

Guessing that is what it is like to work around.... President Trump:boink:
 
This original line of thought hits me as narcissism. Where’s the empathy for those lost, AND their families? Those that I’ve personally known that were lost or nearly lost don’t deserve this association. Their loved ones deserve better for their memories.

Why don’t we fear the risk of the highway?

Not as easy to call the 35,000+ killed in car wrecks a year narcissistic as it is the less than 30 taken by avalanche? (based off ave US deaths)

Personally I caution my kids both when on the hill, and as they hop in the car.

Can’t see the purpose in insulting those have been taken in any type of accident.
 
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