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Snowmobilers: Sell your sled and get out...or read this post:

Absolutely.


edit: Spelling...cause WMC couldn't figure out what I meant.
 
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He can **** off, he already has millions of acres of wilderness where sleds are banned, yet doesn't want to share the national forests? A true POS!
 
There's more than enough room for both. I don't get the mentality that if it is open to snowmobiles that means it closed to skiers/snowshoers. We would all like a nice open untracked area to play in, but that only happens after a big snow event regardless of whether your on snowmobile or ski's. We aren't out there lobbying to close area's to other motorized or non motorized activity and for the most part I bet we all understand that over any hill there could be a group of skier's, snow shoers, lost souls, or whatever and hey... it's public land so everyone has a right to be there.

So what's the real problem??? Why does this "group" feel they have the right to block off public lands for their own use?? Tax dollars from everyone go to pay for the management (mismanagement) of our forests so if your going to stop certain people from enjoying them then I want my money back!! How much revenue do the states see from taxes on ski's/snowshoes? How much revenue do the local gas stations see from fueling up the ski's/snowshoes? parts houses? Lodges? etc.... Seems to me that they are getting by too cheap, time to start licensing those ski's snowshoes to operate in the forest, for each state they venture too. They should probably be insured also in case they run over my foot when they skid by while I'm taking a leak by their tree.

They've got their ski-resorts and certain area's blocked off for skiers only but they don't like seeing other tracks just as much as we do. Does this give us the right to say we don't like Ski-Doo's (example) riding in the same area's as our Polaris's??? No, we point fingers, laugh, help them get unstuck and keep on trekking. When I drive by these area's open to skiiers only, I see one set of ski tracks about 24" wide heading away from the lot with acres upon acres or area that never get touched by their feet.

It's ridiculous!! But, an example of doing "something" I checked out the Off Highway Vehicle coalition's website in my state, it was last updated in '11. I sent in a request for information and asked if they were still active, about 2 weeks ago, and have had no response. I've donated to the major Coalitions and am part of the State and Local club, I'm sure there's more I could do but in today's economy it's tough to just throw money out there for something if you don't know if it's actually doing any good and in the case of the SDOHVC, are they even still active and where would the money actually go? I hate to think that we are out numbered, but they sure know how to get their message across to the right people, after all... if we wanted to get an area shut down to Skier's and Snowshoer's how much success would we have even getting a lawyer/judge to hear it??
 
If someone from either side is just trying to save fresh tracks and privacy, in easily accessible and navigable terrain, with easy parking.....good luck. Actually, they already have that for skiers everywhere....they're called "ski hills." Better get there early on a good snow day, just like sledders going to popular easy-access sled spots.

If you desire a more backcountry experience.....well, as someone who does a range of winter activities.....one must really suck at skiing, touring and snowshoeing if he/she wants to use the same areas as snowmobiles. I believe that if both groups are allowed to share the roads that the rest will sort itself out. Ya everyone wants fresh tracks all the time....and you CAN have that on skis or a sled, but only if you're willing to work for it. How about all the touring that's easily accessed from ski resorts that sleds aren't allowed anywhere near? Huge tenures for cat/heli skiing with the same sled restrictions? Terrain not easily accessed by sleds? Plenty of places to go skiing with ZERO chances of seeing a sled.

To suggest that there isn't enough land out there for both to co-exist is asinine. To think that co-existing on public land means that one group must be segregated to a certain area is dumb IMO. However, if that's the only way, at least make sure the areas make sense geographically. There is a ton of non-motorized area set aside for skiers that they can't even get to with days of touring.....what's the logic in that?

So rant portion over....yes, sledders need to pump their groups, or coalitions, or whatever to new levels. There are more people sledding mountains that ever, and snowmobile clubs have not kept up, or even sustained original levels it seems.

IMO, the defense in this matter, is actually offence. Most snow clubs are just cruising along with whatever they started with (area and members). They need to be actively pursuing new members (social media should play a big and relatively user friendly medium), and new areas. Clubs should be spending as much or more time applying for new tenure, as defending against movements such as this. By the time that comes along, the "other side" already has a great sounding game plan put together (doesn't matter if it makes sense to you or not), and snow clubs are on their heels.

Since the non-motor side is not willing to share when they get access, the snow clubs need to persue more exclusive tenures to operate on. "Exclusive" will likely mean joint, as I doubt you'll be able to keep non-motor people off any public land, but joint is fine as long as it's the snow club sharing it, not vice versa. Now that's easy to say and I'm no better than anyone else, but that's my 2 cents.

The enviro side mentioned is just to pull on the heartstrings of the political side....it works tho (for reasons beyond my understanding), and that's always a tough egg to crack for sledders. Ski with a helicopter and you're an upstanding environmentalist....snowmobile and you're a mini Exxon-Valdez. Ski hills are everywhere, they're not environmentally friendly in any way, they all on what once was public land, and most of everyone drives their vehicles to/from individually to park in massive parking lots that have been logged, slashed, paved, etc. Doesn't have to make sense.....you just have to know that's what you're up against.

I will take environmental $h1t from the guys/gals who bust it right from the road for hours on end just to do 1 or 2 runs....there are some of those guys around here, and they are the ONLY people I consider truly "low impact." Most people are not that athletic, and that's what ski hills are for...
 
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Teanaway......I spend enough time there all year to nearly justify living there. I choose to go there because I really like to get away from the crowds and traffic. Rarely are there more that 4 or maybe 5 vehicles parked at the end of the road. I will also add that In any given weekend or weekday, for that matter, it is definitely mixed use. People hiking with kids n dogs, hiking with guns, sledding with guns(hunting), back country hiking, snowmobiling. Not 1 time have I witnessed a scenario where anyone of these activities were disturbed because of my mean,ugly, global warming causing snowmobile. Nor was I disturbed by what they were doing. I'd venture to say I may have crossed paths with this WMC and probably more than once over time given his interest in the area. Can't say I would have disturbed him or his friends nor was I disturbed. Really tired of all the deceptive optics in many areas of our lives these days!!
 
People such as WMC will never figure it out, they're simply not capable of rational thought. In my neck of the woods we used to have what many considered a utopia of sorts in regards to backcountry use. The snowmobilers would ride beyond Liberty Pass and disappear into 100,000 acres of backcountry, you couldn't hardly find another sledder if you tried. The skier's and snowboarder's would have all of Lamoille Canyon to themselves, everyone got along, life was good. The Feds took away the backcountry in the name of wilderness, we now have roughly 1,200 acres where all groups (human powered/gas powered) are required to share the same space, it is a daily legislative caused clusterf@#K of exponential proportions. The solution is simple, give the backcountry back to the gas powered folks and peace will be restored. I actually enjoy the heck out of a good tussle in the Canyon where a skier comes uncorked over me riding his favorite ski-able chute. He or she will scream at the top of their lungs over how me and my sled ruined their day, I respond by explaining to them that there are 100,000 acres for them to enjoy (snowmobile free) on the other side of the pass. They explain that they can't get there with human power, I can, but can't, am I suppose to care!!
 
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WMC everyonr hits the wrong key once in awhile, you would be a fool to think otherwise. People this jackass is just trolling for a reaction, get involved? abolutely!! or tools like this guy will get their way. There is power in numbers and we have the numbers, they are the minority here but you need to speak up, get involved or they will win. Don't let fools like this win. It's your decision.
 
The USFS did consider snowmobiles in their travel management plan. They are not off highway vehicles but over the snow vehicles and therefore not subject to the same statutes as the off highway vehicle. I don't think the intent of the travel management plan was to ever carve out areas for skiiers and snowmobilers in the backcountry. Hopefully forests will recognize it should NOT value one sport over the other. Sadly though recent history is not on our side.
 
Here he is! you know the guy that wants no sleds in his area! OH WAIT IT'S ABOUT ME, DON'T MIND MY SLED! just what it say's I need a sled to get where "I" want to ski !!!!!!!!!! screw everybody else this is "MY LAND" Oh nice helmet, a true American!!!!

PHOTO: Rob Mullins, Leavenworth, heads off with his friend Gus Bekker, Wenatchee, on a backcountry ski and snowshoe trip from where Mullins parked his snowmobile above the Blewett Pass summit earlier this month. Using the snowmobile cuts down the time it takes for Mullins to reach the upper areas he like to ski in.
 
Holy crap, I just hit the wrong thumb and thanked this seething greed monger.How in the he!! do I undo that one?

Say three Hail Marys and....no wait, that's for something else.
Write separate letters to each of your Senators and Representatives, join your local and state clubs and get two friends to do the same. Lol

That won't be enough, but it's a start. Haha
 
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Just did a little quick research, and according to MT FW&P's website, there is more than 3 MILLION acres of designated wilderness in MT. 3 MILLION!!!! Is 3 MILLION ACRES of non-motorized use land not enough!!!!

we have 4.29 million acres of wilderness in Washington and it's a third the size of Mt. I also find it extemely ironic that the local cross country ski areas here on Chinook pass are groomed using a snowmobile! So they whine about getting in the backcountry and not seeing/hearing anyone else and having untracked snow and yet they utilize the very thing they hate the most.....and don't have to pay for it....what a country!
 
The underlying problem is as Adrenaline Addict says.

The Feds take away millions of acres of land and designate it Wilderness.

Then they leave the rest of the areas over crowded so the user groups are in a tight co existence. Then the enviros sue that they want their own area (What happened to your access to those wilderness areas? NOTHING! you can still go there, WE Cannot on our snowmobiles)

It is sort of like this: The FEDS come into Los Angeles and say all vehicle traffic is now designated to a 10 square mile area. Those outside of that area can still walk and bike around as they wish, but you vehicle operators are confined to that 10 square mile area. Then those bike riders and walkers, start to complain that there needs to be a further travel management plan within that 10 square mile area and push to further cordon off specific areas for different "user groups"

The wilderness designation is the root cause of these conflicts!!

Adreneline Addict, you are 100% correct sir!
 
They are winning

With the current President's administration writing the rules and the latest loss in federal court it is just a matter of time before snowmobiles will be classed as a motor vehicle and then we will be required to stay on the roads.

What have we done to fight this? We give money to the Blue Ribbon Coalition and the WSSA and write letters; we have also decided to not purchase new sleds because we figure it is just a matter of time that it is "roads only" and I can do that for less money in the summer on our motorcycles.

So before you flame me ask yourself, "Yes I have written letters to the newspaper, wrote my representative (federal and state), and I give money (not just membership) to groups that legally fight these moves to close down the national forests" otherwise you are just standing in line waiting to go in and "take a shower" at one of Hitler's camps during WWII :face-icon-small-sho
 
here the selfish burntout old hippie skiers want it all next to the parking lots.they are to lazy to ski a mile to the wilderness.it doesnt matter how much wilderness is out there.
 
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