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Snowden

Shot or welcomed home

  • Shot as a Traitor

    Votes: 15 46.9%
  • Welcomed home as a Patriot

    Votes: 17 53.1%

  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .
It doesn't matter what the topic is about. It boils down to him going against the government. In my eyes he is a patriot in our f'd up governments eyes he's a traitor so no matter what we as citizens think, they will find him and they will kill him!
 
He didn't (and won't) go up against the govt, he runs like a coward. He's no better than someone who sucker punches someone from behind, and then runs away.
 
Be careful not to believe what you hear on TV or from other media sources. As far as endangering peoples lives what has he divulged that will do that ? from what ive seen so far that looks like media hype to make this story news worthy. Reading between the lines he exposed more coruption and heavy handed goverment and thats what this is really about.
 
For all the people that say he's a coward for not staying here and standing up to our government, I laugh! Under the provisions of the "patriot act" Snowden can and would be labeled as a "domestic terrorist". In using this our government gets to TAKE away ALL his constitutional rights and can hold him with out trial for as long as they deem fit. Option #1

There is also a VERY good chance if he would have stayed in the U.S. he'd have a convenient "accident" never to be heard from again. Option #2

In this country we NEED thousands more people like Snowden... It's the only thing that keeps some checks & balances.
 
This is what can happen when you stay and take on our Government. He exposed them once and WAS about to do it again!!

AMERICAN journalist Michael Hastings told colleagues he suspected he was being investigated by the FBI just hours before he was killed in a fiery car crash in Los Angeles. <!-- google_ad_section_end(name=story_introduction) -->

<!-- // .story-intro --><!-- google_ad_section_start(name=story_body, weight=high) -->Hastings, a former Buzzfeed and Rolling Stone reporter, also revealed he was "onto a big story" in an email that has alarmed his former colleagues and created mass suspicion among online commentators.
The 33-year-old made his big break while writing for Rolling Stone when he triggered the downfall of General Stanley A McChrystal with a damning profile on "The Runaway General". He also had stints reporting from war-zones in Afghanistan and Iraq.

On the subject of his car accident, the LAPD says there are no signs of foul play. His Mercedes reportedly hit a tree at high speed, causing the car to burst into flames. But there are some eyewitness accounts which suggest his car exploded before impact. <!-- // .module-header -->
297275-e63f593e-dd12-11e2-83d7-0411b5c5213d.jpg

<!-- // .image-frame -->
 
great opportunity here to test out our latest Drone technology or reunite the Bin Laden Seal Team.....either one works for me.

Looks like a guy can salvage the rims above. jaws of life chained to the tree might have been a waste of time on this one.
 
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Be careful not to believe what you hear on TV or from other media sources. As far as endangering peoples lives what has he divulged that will do that ? from what ive seen so far that looks like media hype to make this story news worthy. Reading between the lines he exposed more coruption and heavy handed goverment and thats what this is really about.

This is the problem Polzin, as stated before no-one probably knows exactly what information he has provided to countries that despise us and our way of life, freedoms, and liberties. And we will probably never know what exactly has been leaked to them, untill it may be too late..................
 
This is what can happen when you stay and take on our Government. He exposed them once and WAS about to do it again!!

AMERICAN journalist Michael Hastings told colleagues he suspected he was being investigated by the FBI just hours before he was killed in a fiery car crash in Los Angeles. <!-- google_ad_section_end(name=story_introduction) -->

<!-- // .story-intro --><!-- google_ad_section_start(name=story_body, weight=high) -->Hastings, a former Buzzfeed and Rolling Stone reporter, also revealed he was "onto a big story" in an email that has alarmed his former colleagues and created mass suspicion among online commentators.
The 33-year-old made his big break while writing for Rolling Stone when he triggered the downfall of General Stanley A McChrystal with a damning profile on "The Runaway General". He also had stints reporting from war-zones in Afghanistan and Iraq.

On the subject of his car accident, the LAPD says there are no signs of foul play. His Mercedes reportedly hit a tree at high speed, causing the car to burst into flames. But there are some eyewitness accounts which suggest his car exploded before impact. <!-- // .module-header -->
297275-e63f593e-dd12-11e2-83d7-0411b5c5213d.jpg

<!-- // .image-frame -->

At least that guy had the balls to stay here and fight his chosen battles.
 
This is what can happen when you stay and take on our Government. He exposed them once and WAS about to do it again!!

AMERICAN journalist Michael Hastings told colleagues he suspected he was being investigated by the FBI just hours before he was killed in a fiery car crash in Los Angeles. <!-- google_ad_section_end(name=story_introduction) -->

<!-- // .story-intro --><!-- google_ad_section_start(name=story_body, weight=high) -->Hastings, a former Buzzfeed and Rolling Stone reporter, also revealed he was "onto a big story" in an email that has alarmed his former colleagues and created mass suspicion among online commentators.
The 33-year-old made his big break while writing for Rolling Stone when he triggered the downfall of General Stanley A McChrystal with a damning profile on "The Runaway General". He also had stints reporting from war-zones in Afghanistan and Iraq.

On the subject of his car accident, the LAPD says there are no signs of foul play. His Mercedes reportedly hit a tree at high speed, causing the car to burst into flames. But there are some eyewitness accounts which suggest his car exploded before impact. <!-- // .module-header -->
297275-e63f593e-dd12-11e2-83d7-0411b5c5213d.jpg

<!-- // .image-frame -->

The sky is falling the sky is falling
 
Happy 4th of July traitor! I hope you are enjoying your new found surveilance free freedom in ----------------------RUSSIA!:face-icon-small-hap:nono:
 
Skidoorulz,

Certainly, the way he obtained the data and disseminated it, he may be a spy or at least one according to the Espionage Act.

I am very curious what Snowden has to say about what he claims to be a mass surveillance program that the NSA has on their citizens. That would be a clear violation of our Constitution’s 4<sup>th</sup> Amendment, which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures. Speaking of the direction of this country, I can think of a lot of ways our government thinks of our Constitution and us…. very little.

Will we ever get to hear about the original allegations? Doubtful, he’s already crucified. Add your name to the list.

Don't know if you no this or not Lucky. Probably don't. But a man who spies on his country and releases secrets to his countries enemies, is a traitor.
 
Don't know if you no this or not Lucky. Probably don't. But a man who spies on his country and releases secrets to his countries enemies, is a traitor.


Snowden originally came forward and talked about the NSA having a massive surveillance program here in the US on US citizens. (unconstitutional by most standards, more akin to whistle-blowing)

Snowden then burned up much of his whistle blowing capital on exposing the NSA involving other countries about the surveillance program (nothing unconstitutional on the NSA's part here). We spy on other nations, they spy on us. Why Snowden is doing this, who knows. Maybe he is concerned for his life.

The former is the part I am concerned with and more concerned than the latter. Obviously you don't give a hoot about the former and only focus on the latter. One shot, one kill. At least your solution solves any issue for the NSA but we will never know the truth. As long as it doesn't affect your life, I doubt you care.

Perhaps Snowden is both hero and traitor or he is neither hero or traitor.
 
Snowden originally came forward and talked about the NSA having a massive surveillance program here in the US on US citizens. (unconstitutional by most standards, more akin to whistle-blowing)

Snowden then burned up much of his whistle blowing capital on exposing the NSA involving other countries about the surveillance program (nothing unconstitutional on the NSA's part here). We spy on other nations, they spy on us. Why Snowden is doing this, who knows. Maybe he is concerned for his life.

The former is the part I am concerned with and more concerned than the latter. Obviously you don't give a hoot about the former and only focus on the latter. One shot, one kill. At least your solution solves any issue for the NSA but we will never know the truth. As long as it doesn't affect your life, I doubt you care.

Perhaps Snowden is both hero and traitor or he is neither hero or traitor.

...or maybe he is merely an Oscar Mayer Weiner.
 
The thing that amazes me the most about this whole deal is that there are people that are actually shocked that our electronic communications may be being monitored. Really? Are you really that naive to think that something you put out in the airwaves via cell phone, email, etc, can't be monitiored by someone?? Constitutional violation, illeagal search and seizure??? Okay?? I don't know about you, but nobody has came and raided my house unlawfully. That's illeagal search and seizure in my books. In case you people have forgotten, we are still at war with terrorists. Many of them homegrown, or imigrants. Living right here amongst us. Is the US govt just supposed to say, Ok all you US citizens that are actively involved in terrorist groups and beliefs, it's time to come forward and turn yourself in? That would work out well I'm sure :face-icon-small-win

Trust me guys, I don't like our government or our president anymore than most of you. I don't think the government or Barack Hussein Obama (there I put his whole name in print so I pop up in some database and the boogie man can come get me) has any clue, or really any desire for that matter, to truely lead a nation. I think they are all a bunch of self serving idiots, soley out for the purpose of their own personal gain. But, regardless of how I feel about our govt or President, I don't believe that running to foreign nations who would like nothing more than to see us fall, spewing who knows what national security info to anyone who will listen to you (and protect you), is something you do to your country.
 
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Snowden originally came forward and talked about the NSA having a massive surveillance program here in the US on US citizens. (unconstitutional by most standards, more akin to whistle-blowing)

Snowden then burned up much of his whistle blowing capital on exposing the NSA involving other countries about the surveillance program (nothing unconstitutional on the NSA's part here). We spy on other nations, they spy on us. Why Snowden is doing this, who knows. Maybe he is concerned for his life.

The former is the part I am concerned with and more concerned than the latter. Obviously you don't give a hoot about the former and only focus on the latter. One shot, one kill. At least your solution solves any issue for the NSA but we will never know the truth. As long as it doesn't affect your life, I doubt you care.

Perhaps Snowden is both hero and traitor or he is neither hero or traitor.

Snowden left the country with government secrets in laptops that he stole. Even if the laptops were his, the info on them was stolen. He then went to countries who are not our allies and began spewing stolen info to those countries that was on those laptops. That makes him a traitor by all definition. How some of you are so hung up on the little picture and can't even see the big picture is beyond me. As mtsummitx said the airwaves and the info that goes through them do not belong to you. Sorry to tell you that but it is a fact, Heck right now I would not be surprised if this thread and everything that is said on it is being monitored because it has the words Snowden patriot and traitor and a few others in it. You guys who think he is a patriot better watch out because the government is going to fly over with a drone and make you disappear. oooooo eeeee oooooo!
 
Will it be Venezuela? And how long before he dies in a crash of Some kind or "commits suicide".
 
I've been in the Air Force for 11 years and am a career intel guy. I've been a sensor operator (MQ-1b predator UAS), deployed a handful of times, and know the ins and outs of what we collect.

First off, the car that crashed couldn't have been a Predator strike, so take off the tinfoil. I've been involved with enough strikes to know that the car wouldn't have been intact after a hellfire hit it. I can appreciate a good conspiracy, but the pred strike doesn't fit this one. Also, please stop calling them drones. Drones don't have anyone controlling them whereas a predator or reaper has someone on the stick the whole time.

Back on track...I know the intel community fairly well, and no I can't tell you about it because like Snowden I signed a non-disclosure agreement as part of my TS clearance. Everyday I am at work, I sit through a pre-mission briefing and have to listen to someone brief me about a program called intelligence oversight, or IO. I carry a little card with facts about it to include who I can't collect on (specifically US citizens), what regulations govern it (DoD 5240.1), and there are 8 different squadron contacts for me to go to if I suspect any violation of IO. I also have different avenues available, all of which don't land me in jail or on the run. To say we take this stuff seriously is an understatement.

I don't agree with the complete disregard for my reasonable right to privacy, but I also know that there is a better way to take care of these things. On top of that, myself as well as the rest of the intel community had to sit through even more IO training than we did when PFC manning went full retard on us. I voted traitor because the guy put TS documents out for the world to see and because of what he has been telling different nations about our activities. This stuff is classified for a reason, and he is putting a lot of people at risk by putting it out there.
 
Here is a article by Julia Davis a DHS whistleblower. If you read this and still can't see why Snowden took flight, then I suggest putting your head back in the sand & let this world pass by!


by Julia Davis Edward Snowden set the world ablaze with revelations of overreaching surveillance, conducted by the American government against its own citizens. The excuse of “national security” often allows powers-that-be to avoid public scrutiny, effectively ending the discussion. However, in this scenario people feel personally violated and the debate is unlikely to cease anytime soon.
Many teeter on the verge of acceptance, but wonder out loud, “Why didn’t he do it the right way?” Numerous whistleblowers who acted “by the book” in reporting government corruption, fraud, waste and abuse could predict the most likely outcome for anyone who takes that scenic route. If Snowden researched the cases of national security whistleblowers (myself included), the precedent would likely deter him from playing by the rules.
Truth-tellers from all walks of life face treacherous obstacles in their way. Whistleblower protections are as elusive as an oasis in the desert. The agencies created to protect whistleblowers have been woefully inadequate for decades. Statistically, the Merit Systems Protection Board (MSPB) rules in favor of the government in nearly 99% of all cases.
National security whistleblowers are in a category of their own, since they don’t have any whistleblower protections whatsoever. This includes employees and contractors who don’t have access to classified information and merely serve in positions that are deemed to be “sensitive”. When they bravely report violations up the chain of command, to the Office of Inspector General (OIG) or to Congress, these whistleblowers are essentially committing unintended career suicide. Instead of investigating itself, the government targets the source of their embarrassment with all of their might.
I’ve personally experienced the kind of retaliation you might think happens only in the movies. I served as a federal law enforcement officer with the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). One fine day, I followed the rules by reporting serious shortcomings in the processing of aliens from Special Interest Countries (SIC) with links to terrorist activities. The DHS irresponsibly failed to run checks, take fingerprints or enroll these applicants for admission into a national database specifically created to obtain and store information that could be instrumental in preventing a terrorist attack, The National Security Entry-Exit Registration System (NSEERS). This system was designed to collect exactly the kind of information that would red-flag overseas travels of the Boston bombers.
As required by our manual, I reported suspicious entries of SIC aliens into the U.S. to the FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Force (FBI/JTTF). When I was approached by CNN, I declined to go public about my report, since it was never my intent to embarrass the agency. I merely wanted the problem to be addressed and investigated. The government’s reaction to press inquiries was markedly different. While I was striving to protect the agency, the DHS was actively working to destroy me.
In a matter of weeks, I became the subject of 16 investigations. That number eventually rose to 54 cases that were opened against me by the DHS. I also had to face two malicious prosecutions, two false imprisonments, referral to the IRS for retaliatory audits and levies, warrantless surveillance (including aerial surveillance with a fixed-wing airplane and a Blackhawk helicopter, vehicular surveillance with as many as 8 agents at a time, sneak-and-peek incursions via the Patriot Act, Internet monitoring, OnStar tracking and wiretaps), as well as a Special Response Team raid of my house that utilized 27 agents, armed with assault weapons, and a Blackhawk helicopter. The DHS started to refer to me as a “Domestic Terrorist”, simply for embarrassing them by making my whistleblowing disclosure to the FBI/JTTF. They attacked not only me, but also my husband, my parents and even my witnesses.
I am eternally grateful to everyone who stood by us during those trying times. Except for the attacks by the IRS that continue to this day, my husband and I prevailed against all odds. We were declared factually innocent, obtained a court order for the return of our belongings, illegally taken by the DHS in the course of two warrantless searches and succeeded in our litigation that was settled by the agency shortly before the trial.
While the use of planes, helicopters, the manpower and other resources utilized by the government in this instance were quite unprecedented, the modus operandi is a constant thread running throughout many whistleblower cases. Selfless truth-tellers are subjected to retaliatory investigations, baselessly labeled a “threat to national security”, their homes get raided, their families harassed, their lives and careers end up in shambles. The mainstream media either blackballs their cases completely, or releases lackluster exposés. The hidden meaning behind such half-hearted coverage sends a chilling message, “This whistleblower is now destitute, out of a great job, without any future prospects or a chance for redemption. You don’t want to end up like that, do you? ” The answer is very predictable, prompting most people to shake their heads in disbelief, before they mindlessly move on to the next episode of the Kardashians.
Anyone who passionately condemns Snowden for not making his disclosure “the right way” would do well to research the cases of countless truth-tellers who paid a heavy price for doing the right thing. Take a good look at what happened to Daniel Ellsberg, William Binney, John Kiriakou, Shami K. Leibowitz, J. Kirk Wiebe, Frank Serpico, Julia Davis (yours truly), Thomas Drake, and many others. All of us have attempted to ensure that important issues would be addressed and corrected. Due to the complicity of mainstream media, the majority of whistleblowers are unable to bring about nationwide debates of the issues they expose. Snowden succeeded in bringing stunning levels of public awareness to the matters of paramount importance. He sacrificed his life in the process. Before jumping to conclusions, I implore you to fully comprehend the plight of whistleblowers. “We the people” have a moral obligation to support those who selflessly give up not only their job security, but also risk their very lives in order to protect our constitutional rights.
 
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