Has anybody tried the SLP head on their 800 cleanfire engine? If so how did you like it? Thinking of trying one.
SLP head on an 800
- Thread starter 800poodragon
- Start date
I am curious myself, I am taking my 09 in for the recall but really am not liking the fact of lowering the compression ratio. I wish I could keep my head and just get the 2 ring pistons. If it droppes the static compression to much I will be looking into slp's head.
ttt...nobody else has run the SLP head?
On the bold, agreed, .
Can't you just pick up a used stock head (possibly not even for a 2009 800??)and turn that back into POLARIS??????
And, just a thought but how closely do you think POLARIS is going to inspect each and every head in this 800 warranty debacle??
I
IDAHO HOT SHOT
Well-known member
Ive been doing a little research on the head thing. Obviously no one has ran the head because they just came out. The SLP head is said to work really good with the twins but what else woul you expsect them to say. I talked to Carl's and they said that the new head can be modded just like the previous ones. Carl's head mod is $100.00. That beats $360.00 for SLP head and, in reality, its probably the same thing or even better. I am thinking about having them port it while it is apart. $600.00 seems like alot for mild porting. Maybe I will just get a PC111 and let Turbotater port it. Who knows
amen
I agree 360 for 3 horse is alittle pricey. I would much rather get the pc3 turner. ...... oh by the way to my sled into the shop for the updates. Hope it comes back running. It drives me nuts to let anyone else work on my sled.
I agree 360 for 3 horse is alittle pricey. I would much rather get the pc3 turner. ...... oh by the way to my sled into the shop for the updates. Hope it comes back running. It drives me nuts to let anyone else work on my sled.
I
IDAHO HOT SHOT
Well-known member
I agree 360 for 3 horse is alittle pricey. I would much rather get the pc3 turner. ...... oh by the way to my sled into the shop for the updates. Hope it comes back running. It drives me nuts to let anyone else work on my sled.
Amen brother William
What kind of mod does Carl's do to the heads? All I ever heard about was some Sean Ray top hat head mod? Are they just making it less likely to experience detination?
From what I understood. It was just like milling the head.
I
IDAHO HOT SHOT
Well-known member
They reshape the dome, that is what Chris told me. But that is all he told me
Real unbiased dyno testing on Monday and Tuesday of next week (Oct 12, 13) DYNOTECH JIM (www.dynotechresearch.com) will be testing a 2009 800 with all of the updates done, then he'll add Sean Ray modded heads and other stuff (SLP. BMP??)
For a $25.00 annual subscription the real #'s will be available, he's also got this video camera set-up in the dyno room and you can actually watch it LIVE!!!
He'll develope new PC III and PC 5 maps from this testing/tuning session and be made available to those that purchased from him.
We find out if the $100.00 head mod matches or maybe even out-performs the $400.00 Billet head, ditto for the pipes & silencers.
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Ron
ACCOUNT CLOSED
DTR provides useful info but until they move the equipment to altitude it's of much less value in the west. This is especially true with dyno developed fuel maps and pipes. Some of the mods that work at sea level don't work at altitude. Bring this up again since this is a mixed forum. IMO stick with the Western mod shops if you ride altitude. I'm not convinced that any stock sled will need a fuel controller, maybe we should ride them before making that decision.
Ron,
You have a legit point, and I agree in a perfect world when possible, however where is there an independent dyno facility out West that's testing @ higher altitudes and publishing the info????? It stands to reason that if there's 3 different pipes/silencers/reeds/etc. tested the benefits would fall into the same line of succession whether it be @ higher/lower altitudes. (Yeah, generally broad statement, probably get nit-picky backlash on this one)
I strongly disagree with you on the fuel controller not needed on a stock sled. That's like saying 5 years ago that I'm gonna run my sled with the stock jetting and not buy any different jets because it's a stock sled and there's no improvement to be had from changing jets on a stock sled and the factory installed the absolute best jetting for maximum performnce right from the factory, so don't touch it!!.
The PC III is just replacing your box of extra jets, that's all.Look @ it this way, comparing carbs to CFI's. My understanding is that if you have a sled that would normally take 500 main jets, a minus 5% input on your PC III/CFI is like going from a 500 jetted sled to a 475 (5% times the 500= 25, 500-25=475) On the last 10 sleds I've owned, I've typically run 2-3 sizes leaner than the factory recommended set-ups with excellent results and a rare (1x in the last 14 years) burn down. Maybe I'm not trying hard enough! I'll have to step it up, er uh ,I mean step it down a few more sizes then!
PC III's are to CFI's like jets were to carbs, it's that simple. I know what a PC III did for my near stocker and I would find it difficult to believe that POLARIS programmed their E.C.U.'s to be overly rich @ 1000' but "spot on" @ 8000' . It stands to reason that they would be "proportionly safe-rich" across the board. Just my humble opinion.
So at the end of the day, please tell me if there is a better or additional source of independent/un-biased testing out there???????
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Polarismaster26
Member
I am having trouble debating on a head as well. I am not to impressed with most of slp's products any more. I am thinking of trying Fasttrax head. I heard a lot of great things from my buddy's about that head. I am picking up my 09 this week and they will do the update. So i hope i have no issues with a brand new sled.
R
Ron
ACCOUNT CLOSED
Kraven,
For one thing the length of the head pipe should be changed as you go up or down in altitude so a high altitude pipe won't compete with one built for low altitude, at a facility in NY. As air density changes pulse waves in the pipe change accordingly, those pulse waves make or break an AM pipe. Pipe temps also change air density and affect pulse waves. Back pressure in a pipe can build HP on a dyno but build heat and fall on it's face in the snow. It's complicated! We also need more intake at altitude because of the thin air so you'll find lots of air kits in the West.
I agree that the 10's will be rich on top end but probably not after we port or pipe a sled. There are a lot of reasons that Dyno tuning doesn't work in the real world, I debated some with Jim in a thread last year. Low pipe temps were one biggie.
As far as testing at altitude by Extreme in Colo.....I assume that's the other source? They have some issues too, a current one is that they are out of business.
As far as another source there are several in the West including SLP and Carl's. SLP sells the PCIII and has mapping available, haven't heard of anything for stockers. They also dyno their products and are very successful.
I don't disagree with DTR maybe helping low elevation setup's but some of us ride altitude. Personally I would never buy a dyno developed mod that hasn't been tested in the snow. IMO that's where we are with the update to the 08/09's, new parts and new fuel map. I'm going to try mine first and then decide.
For one thing the length of the head pipe should be changed as you go up or down in altitude so a high altitude pipe won't compete with one built for low altitude, at a facility in NY. As air density changes pulse waves in the pipe change accordingly, those pulse waves make or break an AM pipe. Pipe temps also change air density and affect pulse waves. Back pressure in a pipe can build HP on a dyno but build heat and fall on it's face in the snow. It's complicated! We also need more intake at altitude because of the thin air so you'll find lots of air kits in the West.
I agree that the 10's will be rich on top end but probably not after we port or pipe a sled. There are a lot of reasons that Dyno tuning doesn't work in the real world, I debated some with Jim in a thread last year. Low pipe temps were one biggie.
As far as testing at altitude by Extreme in Colo.....I assume that's the other source? They have some issues too, a current one is that they are out of business.
As far as another source there are several in the West including SLP and Carl's. SLP sells the PCIII and has mapping available, haven't heard of anything for stockers. They also dyno their products and are very successful.
I don't disagree with DTR maybe helping low elevation setup's but some of us ride altitude. Personally I would never buy a dyno developed mod that hasn't been tested in the snow. IMO that's where we are with the update to the 08/09's, new parts and new fuel map. I'm going to try mine first and then decide.
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I have to agree with ron, when dyno info first came out on the 08's everyone said you had to stay down at 7800-7900 rpm(except slp)..what I found was best on hill performance both with stock pipe and slp single was way higher...8300 for the stock pipe and 8450 for the slp single...hands down if I clutched to bring the rpms under 8200 I lost in the steep and deep...dyno is a tool..a very good tool but it doesnt replace on the hill testing..I actually do ride right from sea level up to 8000 ft..I dont think a dyno works to quantify pipes..just cant duplicate both hot pipe and cold pipe performance that a sled sees in the steep /deep stuff.....
Regarding specific type pipes and/or altitude correct pipes:
back in October 2008, DTR tested stock, SLP and EXXTREME DYNO (Marysville, Utah) modified SLP pipe for mountain riders.
Back down at 1000' the EXXTREME modded SLP pipe made 5 more h.p. than the SLP pipe (over a broader r.p.m. range) and the same torque as the SLP pipe at the same 8100 R.P.M. The modded pipe varied less than 3 h.p. from peak h.p. from 7900 all the way up to 8400.
I hear what you're saying, pipe lengths and the thinner air issue, but are you then suggesting that the SLP pipes are more for high altitude riders or maybe that they should sell (2) different pipes one for mountain guys and one for flatlanders?
I recognize that SLP dynoes @ altitude and I've purchased a LOT of stuff from SLP over the last 15 years, and I have respect for them and they've always been helpful with back-up, but when their dyno shows the 800 @ 154 h.p. box stock, well, let's say I'm just a wee bit skeptical, that's all.
AKSNOWRIDER: I agree with you on the dyno #'s as just a part of the equation, and how the dyno doesn't simulate real world conditions as much as we would prefer, but short of buying every part out there and trying it out for yourself on your sled and your bud's sled for your own particular combination, it just seems like an independent dyno test is about the best one could hope for, that's all.
I will disagree with your comment saying EVERYONE recommended 78-7900 r.p.m. for the 800's, DTR's dyno said 8100 R.P.M. if you're a subscriber the information dating back several years is still there, for $25.00 per year, it's a lot of factual info. I've been told this before that you want to run approx 200 r.p.m. higher in real life than the dyno, for what it's worth.
BTW, does Carl's offer PC III programs or Boondockers, last I heard they were getting the stock E.C.U.'s re-flashed for their Big-Bore kits somehow????
back in October 2008, DTR tested stock, SLP and EXXTREME DYNO (Marysville, Utah) modified SLP pipe for mountain riders.
Back down at 1000' the EXXTREME modded SLP pipe made 5 more h.p. than the SLP pipe (over a broader r.p.m. range) and the same torque as the SLP pipe at the same 8100 R.P.M. The modded pipe varied less than 3 h.p. from peak h.p. from 7900 all the way up to 8400.
I hear what you're saying, pipe lengths and the thinner air issue, but are you then suggesting that the SLP pipes are more for high altitude riders or maybe that they should sell (2) different pipes one for mountain guys and one for flatlanders?
I recognize that SLP dynoes @ altitude and I've purchased a LOT of stuff from SLP over the last 15 years, and I have respect for them and they've always been helpful with back-up, but when their dyno shows the 800 @ 154 h.p. box stock, well, let's say I'm just a wee bit skeptical, that's all.
AKSNOWRIDER: I agree with you on the dyno #'s as just a part of the equation, and how the dyno doesn't simulate real world conditions as much as we would prefer, but short of buying every part out there and trying it out for yourself on your sled and your bud's sled for your own particular combination, it just seems like an independent dyno test is about the best one could hope for, that's all.
I will disagree with your comment saying EVERYONE recommended 78-7900 r.p.m. for the 800's, DTR's dyno said 8100 R.P.M. if you're a subscriber the information dating back several years is still there, for $25.00 per year, it's a lot of factual info. I've been told this before that you want to run approx 200 r.p.m. higher in real life than the dyno, for what it's worth.
BTW, does Carl's offer PC III programs or Boondockers, last I heard they were getting the stock E.C.U.'s re-flashed for their Big-Bore kits somehow????
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Kraven
You are always calling foul for anyone who does not agree with you on here or on HCS. Your calling people salesman for different peoples products or parts but look at you constantly selling the 25.00 subscription.
Here's the difference I trust Elevation people to tell me what I need for mountain riding, and I trust a low elevation company to tell me and sell me what I need for flat land. I have never seen a dyno tech sled come out west and out run my Carls built sled. Carl's doesn't advertise HP #'s just what works. I don't ride a dyno, I ride a sled. I know when trusting and using one builder not mismatching crap that when when it's done it will run good reliable and strong. I may not have some dyno sheet to brag about but bring the sled to the snow let's compare who's ride's, drives, runs, better and who can go higher. Ive seen many big Hp dyno # sleds get humbled on the hill and on the lake.\
Flat lands are the same I don't care what your numbers are. Use a company that there stuff runs good and fast and do everything as they tell you and it will usually work great. When you mismatch peoples stuff is when you start to run into problems.
So unless you are running just the one part and that's it that Dyno tech Research is testing it will not always repeat. It is a good testing point but not a holy grail on what to do to your motor.
This post was about the new head and I to am waiting to find out what is going to happen as I have a ported twin piped 800 from carls that will be getting updated. After talking to Jack and Chris at Carls I to am considering what to do, run the old head that is modded already or run the new head that they will have to develop yet as they have not been able to get on the snow and start trying things. I have been told the twin piped motors will not run good on the new head in stock form. Time will tell I guess we just need the out west guys to get on snow and start testing different designs. For me it's what's better old head modded or new head modded.
You are always calling foul for anyone who does not agree with you on here or on HCS. Your calling people salesman for different peoples products or parts but look at you constantly selling the 25.00 subscription.
Here's the difference I trust Elevation people to tell me what I need for mountain riding, and I trust a low elevation company to tell me and sell me what I need for flat land. I have never seen a dyno tech sled come out west and out run my Carls built sled. Carl's doesn't advertise HP #'s just what works. I don't ride a dyno, I ride a sled. I know when trusting and using one builder not mismatching crap that when when it's done it will run good reliable and strong. I may not have some dyno sheet to brag about but bring the sled to the snow let's compare who's ride's, drives, runs, better and who can go higher. Ive seen many big Hp dyno # sleds get humbled on the hill and on the lake.\
Flat lands are the same I don't care what your numbers are. Use a company that there stuff runs good and fast and do everything as they tell you and it will usually work great. When you mismatch peoples stuff is when you start to run into problems.
So unless you are running just the one part and that's it that Dyno tech Research is testing it will not always repeat. It is a good testing point but not a holy grail on what to do to your motor.
This post was about the new head and I to am waiting to find out what is going to happen as I have a ported twin piped 800 from carls that will be getting updated. After talking to Jack and Chris at Carls I to am considering what to do, run the old head that is modded already or run the new head that they will have to develop yet as they have not been able to get on the snow and start trying things. I have been told the twin piped motors will not run good on the new head in stock form. Time will tell I guess we just need the out west guys to get on snow and start testing different designs. For me it's what's better old head modded or new head modded.
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I agree 360 for 3 horse is alittle pricey. I would much rather get the pc3 turner. ...... oh by the way to my sled into the shop for the updates. Hope it comes back running. It drives me nuts to let anyone else work on my sled.
FWIW, I was told by SLP that the 3 hp gain with their head was in comparison to the 08/09 stock head, not the new polaris head. So, the gain should be even more significant w/SLP's head over the new lower compression polaris head. Might make the $360 a little easier to swallow for high elevation riders.
