Sled advice needed

[critrgitr]

Hi everyone. New member here - I joined this forum hoping to get some advice from folks who ride western Wyoming regarding which sleds I should purchase.

Quick history; I am retiring next year and we (wife, 21 y.o. daughter and myself) are moving to somewhere in the Star Valley area (leaning toward Thayne specifically). I am 57 y.o. (165 lbs) in good health and in decent shape but I have never owned or even ridden a sled before but since we will be living in western Wyoming, my daughter and I think that this (sledding) will be one of our main winter activities. That being the case, I am preparing to purchase a couple of sleds but I am learning that there are so many different types of sleds that I am a bit overwhelmed as to where to start.

My guess is that the areas we will ride will be Alpine, Bedford, Smoot over the mountains and back through the Grey's River area so my assumption is that there will be groomed and powder areas <-- Please let me know if this assumption is correct. So with this in mind, I would really appreciate specific information / recommendations about brand, type / model, size, track length, 2 vs 4 stroke, etc that you folks think will work best for this area of Wyoming. I am also really hoping that I can find some back country terrain that I can ski with my fatties (via sled). With the research I have done, I am leaning toward a newer Polaris RMK 800 but I am not brand loyal since I don't have any experience.

Lastly, I am thinking it would be best to start with used (less expensive) sleds to begin with until we learn the sport and the area rather than purchase new sleds and then learn we made the wrong choice. However, I am not opposed to buying new if there is something that you folks think is the perfect sled for this area and the type of riding we will be doing.

Thank you in advance for your help.

PS: regarding safety and our lack of experience; the first thing I plan to do next winter is to take training courses so we can learn the area, avalanche danger, etc. so I am really hoping to focus on sled information in this thread. Thanks again.

 

[Dogmeat]

Here is my take on this ...

You're living in one of the best parts of the country to snowmobile, so I would offer the thought that buying brand new snowmobiles with warranty would be a good idea, just because you know for sure you aren't getting something that's been a basket case and if you do have any issues with them, you have the warranty to cover them. If it turns out you don't like them and/or use them much after two or three seasons, you can still get a good enough price out of them 2-3 years later to make it worth the initial investment to see if its something you're going to stick with or not. Mainly, what I'm getting at is ... having sleds that don't run will turn you off in a hurry, so get ones you know you won't have issues with Thats my $0.02 on that, but if you can get a good used sled for less, then what you're willing to spend on it will ultimatley decide

Regarding the type of sled to buy .... I'm going to make the assumption that you probably are not going to be doing any hard-core backcountry riding or hill climbs, dropping off into an unknown ravine and spending all day climbing back out, etc .... so you probably don't want or need anything with a track longer than a 144" or therabout.

The big question out here is, do you see yourself wanting to get off-trail more or stick mainly to the trails with the occasional off-trail jaunt? If you see yourself wanting to do more off-trail type riding, any of the base-model mountain sleds will work, be it Skidoo, Cat, or Polaris....I'm not including Yamaha as an off-trail choice because quite frankly, they still weigh a ton.

If you see yourself mainly sticking to the trails with the occasional off-trail jaunt, any of the current crop of crossover sleds would be a great bet, be it a Polaris Switchback, Skidoo Renegade or an Arctic Cat XF CrossCountry models ....

I think its just a question of which type of riding you realistically see yourself doing more of. The crossover sleds will be more comfortable to ride on-trail, but less capable off-trail .... wheras the mountain sleds aren't the best trail machines but really kick *** off-trail.

The one thing is, I don't know if a lot of dealers out here really stock the crossover sleds.....I could be mistaken, but I really haven't ever seen too many of them on the show room floors. Ideally I'd have a mountain sled for winter and a crossover for spring .... so availability may play a role in your decision as well.

Regarding the 600 vs. 800 question. If you can afford it, buy the 800s. Nobody on the planet has ever been worse for ware having more power, right?

I really don't think you can go too wrong with any of the top 3 brands on the market today, they are all pretty good and have various strengths and weaknesses..... I wouldn't even consider a 4 stroke unless all you want to do is trail ride or mod the hell out of it and do stupid big hill climbs....but that's just my opinion

 

[critrgitr]

Thank you for that helpful information Dogmeat. Good point about the warrantee.

Without experience I am only guessing here of course but I see myself using trails to get to where I want to go which is fresh snow, hills, explore back country, etc. Although I have no experience with sleds, I have lots of experience with quading, mostly Oregon dunes. When dune gooning, our favorite terrain was extreme terrain - steep hill climbs, deep in the trees etc. because that was most fun so I am guessing it will be the same for sledding. For those reasons, I have been leaning toward one of the Polaris RMK 800 models. What I am most confused about is the optimum (if there is such a thing) track length, lug height / profile and even the specific model (Pro, SKS, Axys, or?) for this area. I want ES and Reverse (I am getting old ) but do I need a sled with a cooling system? Any advice on the specifics listed above?

 

[togwotee9]

Do yourself a favor, go to Togwotee rent some sleds and gear and ride with a guide a few times to see it you even like it.

 

[Dogmeat]

Thank you for that helpful information Dogmeat. Good point about the warrantee.

Without experience I am only guessing here of course but I see myself using trails to get to where I want to go which is fresh snow, hills, explore back country, etc. Although I have no experience with sleds, I have lots of experience with quading, mostly Oregon dunes. When dune gooning, our favorite terrain was extreme terrain - steep hill climbs, deep in the trees etc. because that was most fun so I am guessing it will be the same for sledding. For those reasons, I have been leaning toward one of the Polaris RMK 800 models. What I am most confused about is the optimum (if there is such a thing) track length, lug height / profile and even the specific model (Pro, SKS, Axys, or?) for this area. I want ES and Reverse (I am getting old ) but do I need a sled with a cooling system? Any advice on the specifics listed above?

Sure thing. Bare in mind I'm just now coming back off a 2 year hiatus from snowmobiling, so I might not have the absolute most current up-to-date info ... My last sled was a 2013 Pro RMK 163 and I just picked up a brand new Axys, so if anything I say here is incorrect my apologies ...

But, regarding track length .... You only want as much track as you need, but generally speaking the trend the last 10 years has been that more is better than less. I went from a 144" to a 151" to a 162/3" with lugs that just kept getting taller, and as far as back country riding goes, I found I was happier on my 162 Cat, then 163 Polaris much moreso than with the shorter tracks I rode with previously. My riding skills progressed during that time as well, but my take on it was that I used to be over 300-lbs geared up ride weight, so I had no issue pulling the trigger on a 163. I found that to be the best choice for me .... I never found myself wanting more, but occasionally in spring snow especially thinking less would have been better. Overall, for the type of riding I do and wanted to optimize for, a 163 was the best choice for me.

Most of the folks I ride with (or rode with up till 2015) don't tip the scales at over 300-lbs, so the majority of them are on the 155" sleds and they all seem to think that was the best choice based on the conversations I've had with them. Overall, that track length seems to have become the preferred length for most folks for back country riding. I'd swapped sleds a number of times with other folks, from 146" to other 163s, and IMO which track length is best really truly does just depend on rider ability and snow conditions .... EG, a really good rider on a 144" will probably be able to ride circles around a novice rider on a 163 all other things being equal in most circumstances...... So, another reason I think you see why the popularity of the 153/154/155" tracks have become the unspoken 'standard' I guess you could say. I just know I sure seem to see a whole lot more tracks of that length on sleds than the longer or shorter ones the last 5 years or so.

It sounds to me like an 800 RMK 155" would be your best bet. I wouldn't worry about getting the sled with the 3" lugs, the 2.6" ones will work perfectly fine for you and you will be able to get that sled at a better price I'm sure.

I can't speak as to the Axys chassis vs. the old Pro Ride chassis as I haven't even had a chance to get my new Axys on the snow yet (I just moved to Pinedale WY from West Virginia last week hahaha), but as much as I liked my old 13' Pro in comparison to previous sleds I've had .... I'm 100% sure I won't be disappointed

 

[westg]

I agree with Dog on most of his points. 800 over 600 as power is your friend when trying to stay on top. I disagree on the track length as I have a 12 Summit X with a 146" track and wished I had a 154". I have 2.5 " lugs which was the Skidoo standard when I bought my sled, 3" is the new standard from the last couple of years. I agree with the big 3 and yes, Yamaha is great on the trails, not so much in the trees. I referred to my Vector Mtn. as the boat anchor. The friends that I rode with had other comments when we were digging it out... every time we went out. Other brand 4 strokes fall into the same box.

All new sleds have a cooling system... at 30* and 2 1/2" lugs, engine temperature is a big concern when on the trails as the lugs can't pickup and throw enough snow onto the track and scratchers are a must to keep snow on the track and up into the coils to cool the engine.

Your second post makes it sound like you will eventually be off trail... and that will put you in the deep stuff 2 -10 feet of snow. I would look for a mountain sled, 800cc, with at least a 144 track or longer, Just my opinion. There are lodges that have rentals that can let you ride different brands and styles.

If you are unfamiliar with sleds I would suggest KSL.com classified and look at the used sleds. Yesterday there were almost 1600 sleds listed for sale. You can also get a feel for how many of brand X is up for sale. It will also give you an idea of prices and accessories that people are adding to their sleds.

 

[tuneman]

I recommend renting for a day or 2 first. You'll gain a ton of information just by doing that. When you're ready to buy, I'd go with either Ski-Doo or Polaris. There's a Doo dealer right in Thayne and the Polaris dealer is just up the road in Etna.

All of the modern mountain sleds have reverse. I'd avoid electric start unless you really need it. It adds about 25lbs. and modern sleds are easy to pull over. It's also an annoying high maintenance item.

For you, I'd recommend an 800 Polaris Pro RMK, 163" track, 2.4" or 2.6" lug. For wife and daughter, they can go 155". Star Valley is big snow country. Anything under a 155" track is pointless. If your wife will mainly trail ride, then get her a standard RMK, which has a secondary cooler. Remember that her sled will be your backup

A 163" track is ideal for older fellas, such as yourself(no offense). A 163" can get thru almost anything, so you'll be digging out a lot less. My father, who happens to live up the road in Alpine, is 74 and goes all over the place on a Pro 163". His 75 year old buddy also rides a 163". We get into some crazy stuff and they almost never get stuck.

Anyway, go rent some sleds, for starters.

 

[owenb2]

Shorter tracks 144-155 ride better on the trail, but off trail in powder they require the rider to be more aggressive and carry speed.

The 162-174 tracks are not quite as comfortable on the trail but they are great off trail, they allow the rider to travel slower, &a not get stuck as often (however when you do get stuck they are really stuck.)

I agree with the above posts on renting first, if you like it shop around for a dealer. Find one that has a fleet of demo sleds and try the various track lengths same day same snow.


Star valley is one of the best spots in the state and most scenic regardless of the season.


Oh and also I would definitely suggest buying new with warranty, a fun day can turn into a nightmare (or even life threatening)with unreliable equipment.

 

[turbolover]

I am going to second the rental day before buying.
I would suggest renting different sleds and riding them with a guide for a day or two.
You can ride the Polaris, Skidoo and Arctic Cat back to back that way.
You can quickly decide what you do and don't like about each of them. A good guide can also help you learn different aspects about different types of riding. Powder riding is very different than trail riding.

Electric start is a nice feature. It does add a bit of weight and maintenance but it does have some benefits.

Although most of the new sleds are fairly easy to start, most girls do not have the upper body strength that men do. Being able to push a button and start a sled or yanking on a rope, may be the difference of being able to ride longer before being worn out for your daughter.
I have a 16 YO Daughter and I have to start her sled for her quite often during the day so as not to wear her out before we are done riding. Yes I can lean over and one handed start it for her but she has to really tug on it with both hands.

Renting some sleds before buying them will give you the opportunity to determine whether you really will enjoy sledding.
(You will be addicted if you have a good guide that will be patient and teach you)
Also you can see what you wnat in a sled when you decide to purchase one.

 

[PaulAnd]

Western sleding to us on snowest is more like mountaineering and backcountry exploration..
No trails.
With that said, there are hundreds of miles of groomed trails that you can explore all over Wy.
So what kind of snowmobiling will you do?

Rent with a guide!

Join a local club

Take some avalanche classes

Take a Backcountry clinic

The snowmobile choice will be clearer once you put your foot in!

I would recomend newer and reliable for beginners

Trails only, 4stroke

Trails and medows 136-146" tracks
600-800cc 2 and 4 stroke

Offtrail, mountain
146-174" tracks
800,850+ 2stroke

Backcountry mountain riding takes the gear you need up a level in cost also!
Beacons
Avy probes
Shovels
Avy bags
Better breathable clothing
Gps
Saw
Knowledge and training

 

[Reg2view]

Swing into the Rock'in M Ranch south of Alpine and talk with Rob. Great guy who will help you with your questions, etc., rent you some sleds, and knows the area well.

 

[critrgitr]

Thanks for the advice fellas. I will see if I can rent 2 or 3 different sleds in the same day for an accurate comparison.