Ski's/swaybar/bla bla bla

[jsledder]

I know it's been beat to death around here, but I'm getting tired of fighting this dam thing in the deep snow. Any little side angle, turn or even a slight side wind, will put this thing on it's side and it's like a worm headed down a hole once it gets started.

Looking at doing the following? Will it help or hurt?

Ski's - going from Powder Pro's to Polaris grippers?
Swaybar - going from none to.... something??
Shocks -got the stock Ryde FX with the ZBroz triple rate spring setup, not real excited about "trying" a set of $1,000+ shocks..?

 

[05900]

Hated Powder Pros went SlyDog
Updated spindles
Carls front spring and sway bar kit
It's a friggin boat!!!

 

[Bodi]

Hated the Pros. Simmons Gen3 in shipped.

 

[miller tools]

SKI

I didint like the pros i had on, went to simmons much better stock shocks i would get a sway bar back on

 

[Z-Man]

hmmm, interesting. IN powder you are having that problem? I can set mine on a side hill and hold it there for a mile, or till I run out of hill while sitting on the seat. Think you may have a technique problem. On hardpack however it is a different story, without the sway bar it is a PIA to ride on a side hill.

 

[jsledder]

Yes, it powder. Coming down hill is the worst, you need to pick your line and don't even think about trying to turn otherwise it just dives to the side. Even on the flat's, if there's powder and you try to turn without standing on the side, it ends up on it's side. I'm used to standing up and just leaning one way or the other to navigate, this I have to use everything I got to get it to make a turn in the powder. Unless of course I'm on the hammer and got it up on the side then i can hold it but just cruising along it will not go from side to side or even turn in the deep stuff without diving to the opposite side your trying to turn.

I was going to try the Carls mod on these ski's before pulling them off. I know in crusty snow they can be divers but I really like them on my other sleds.

Sitting in my garage, when I try to pull it on the side, how much sag should I have in the front shocks before it comes over? One thing I noticed on the trail is that if I take a corner and am not on the throttle, especially coming off the throttle, it will saf quite a bit on the opposite side of the corner. (turning left, it sags quite a bit to the right unless i'm on the hammer)

Could very well be my "technique", I've had it for 2 years so i thought I'd get the hang of it by now. I've heard you need to stand back farther on these than the older sleds due to the weight positioning of this chassis, so I've tried that with no real success.

 

[Bodi]

You're not alone. Just something about these 900's we have not figured out yet. In an open area with 3' of powder I can carve turns all day leaning right and left. Get me in the trees when I slow down, one second its on the ski's the next its on it's side. I'm hoping the Gen 3's help. The Pros mount the saddle in the bottom of the ski and the Simmons mount on the top. I'm hoping the added floatation will help me keep it upright long enough to learn how to ride it.

 

[Z-Man]

You said it all right there. You are riding the IQ chassis wrong. You are turning left to go left in powder and nothing you do to the sled is going to make it handle any different.

Find yourself a big open powder field then lean to the left and turn your bars slightly to the right while you throttle it. The sled should carve hard to the left when you countersteer it right. If you are trying to muscle the sled right and turn the skis right you are just going to wear yourself out and not enjoy your ride at all. You will probably also hit every tree in sight when you are trying to miss them. I did the same thing when I first got it. When someone told me what I was doing wrong and I tried it their way riding the 900 became alot more enjoyable.

 

[94fordguy]

So to clarify, I take it that the sled is too easy to tip over and tends to roll, correct?

I like having my sled roll easily with little input, but it can present challenges descending hills or on the trail, etc.... Sounds like an easy thing to do would be to simply increase the pre-load on the front springs to help it from diving so much.

As to technique, we all learn differently and apply differently to get similar results... I am no super star by ANY stretch of the imagination, lol. In various situations, I prefer a 'moderate' aggressive stance on the machine usually. For example, I prefer to stand with my feet approximately 1 foot back from all the way forward for 'relaxed' carving and riding... another 3-4 inches back for most straight hillclimbing and sidehilling to maintain a good balance point, and closer to the back for aggressive carving... usually never all the way to the extreme back of the boards unless I need massive leverage to do a maneuver.

The nice thing about having the bar out and having a soft feel on the front end is that with a mere shift of your weight onto one leg, you can get the sled to lean or turn in that direction.... as you noted that does present a challenge in downhill maneuvering at times with the famous 'outside dive'

 

[jsledder]

You said it all right there. You are riding the IQ chassis wrong. You are turning left to go left in powder and nothing you do to the sled is going to make it handle any different.

Find yourself a big open powder field then lean to the left and turn your bars slightly to the right while you throttle it. The sled should carve hard to the left when you countersteer it right. If you are trying to muscle the sled right and turn the skis right you are just going to wear yourself out and not enjoy your ride at all. You will probably also hit every tree in sight when you are trying to miss them. I did the same thing when I first got it. When someone told me what I was doing wrong and I tried it their way riding the 900 became alot more enjoyable.

Yeah, I understand the turn left to right thing when doing certain maneuvers through the powder, but if I'm just taking off from a rest in anymore than 12" of powder, I have to look like I'm performing a stunt to keep it straight.... while everyone else drives out of the spot while sitting down, I need to look like a hot rodder or something and pin it and turn the ski's right to go left???? or if I try and simply drive out like the rest of them I'll end up with the sled on it's side. There's no "driving" through the tree's with this thing, you always have to be wrestling it just to keep it from dropping one way or the other. On hardpack, I can sit down and drive it on one ski for 100 yards, in powder if I sit down and turn the handlebar in any direction, it sinks unless I'm hard on the throttle to get the front end up and once I let off the throttle I had better be pointed the direction away from a tree because there is no turning it without tipping over. Hard to explain..... I know it sounds like I don't know how to ride, but to me the thing just dives to one side or the other. To me, tippy is being on the trail and the thing wants to tip over in the corners, this will lift a ski about 6-8" but it seems to stay there, the outer side will sink about 3" before the inside ski lifts. The best word I can find to describe how it acts in any amount of powder over 12" is "sink". I'd like to make the 900 run this year and see what the rest of you are doing.

 

[Z-Man]

Something is definitely not right, your sled with the 166 track should launch straight as can be. I see you have powder pros on it which make me wonder if you have let your front strap out way to far trying to make the steering lighter?
Front strap out to far could cause what you are saying and make it trench badly.

What Helix do you have in your driven clutch too? A 56 or 58 for the first angle will trench less on the 900 and a 66 will trench more.

 

[Bodi]

I totally understand. Its like the bottom just drops out from below one of the skis but you never know which one. It happens instantly and the machine is on its side. I'm going to try a few mods recommended by "Ford Guy", "Z man" and a few others once I get my Gen 3's and try them. If they dont help I was riding in position 7, I'm changing that to 5. Then I'm putting the limit strap in the bottom hole and the front track shock in the upper hole and see how that works

 

[f15ejedi]

Yeah, I understand the turn left to right thing when doing certain maneuvers through the powder, but if I'm just taking off from a rest in anymore than 12" of powder, I have to look like I'm performing a stunt to keep it straight.... while everyone else drives out of the spot while sitting down, I need to look like a hot rodder or something and pin it and turn the ski's right to go left???? or if I try and simply drive out like the rest of them I'll end up with the sled on it's side. There's no "driving" through the tree's with this thing, you always have to be wrestling it just to keep it from dropping one way or the other. On hardpack, I can sit down and drive it on one ski for 100 yards, in powder if I sit down and turn the handlebar in any direction, it sinks unless I'm hard on the throttle to get the front end up and once I let off the throttle I had better be pointed the direction away from a tree because there is no turning it without tipping over. Hard to explain..... I know it sounds like I don't know how to ride, but to me the thing just dives to one side or the other. To me, tippy is being on the trail and the thing wants to tip over in the corners, this will lift a ski about 6-8" but it seems to stay there, the outer side will sink about 3" before the inside ski lifts. The best word I can find to describe how it acts in any amount of powder over 12" is "sink". I'd like to make the 900 run this year and see what the rest of you are doing.

If you have stock shocks put the swaybar back in and put the limiter strap in the middle to see if that helps. Do the simple stuff first before you start on clutching and new parts/skis.

 

[Z-Man]

If you have stock shocks put the swaybar back in and put the limiter strap in the middle to see if that helps. Do the simple stuff first before you start on clutching and new parts/skis.

Yep, put your skis on and try it and then do your limiter and try it. One thing at a time if you can. Putting your sway bar back on will probably help you a bunch if you are having the problem even when you start from a stop. I think the simmons Skis with the front strap tighter is probably going to make a huge difference for you too.

 

[POLZIN]

more preload on the front triple rates
sway bars are for trial riders
I like PPs ??I guess I need to try grippers to make sure all of you are crazy! I hate them on the dragons may be the weight of a 900 helps them steer not push

 

[jsledder]

Pretty sure the limiter strap is all the way out, not a lot of tension on the front track spring.

I've got fronts set up about as tight as I can go before the bottom springs are starting to compress.

It's not like I have a set of grippers to just "try", thought about trading my PP's for a set but I think I would be taking a hosing on the price difference.

 

[94fordguy]

Pretty sure the limiter strap is all the way out, not a lot of tension on the front track spring.

I've got fronts set up about as tight as I can go before the bottom springs are starting to compress.

It's not like I have a set of grippers to just "try", thought about trading my PP's for a set but I think I would be taking a hosing on the price difference.

I highly doubt you're gonna be diving because of the powder pros, those are designed to work well in the powder.... Really the only difference between the powder pros and the grippers is that the grippers are slightly less aggressive in the turns - not as darty... the flotation footprint is virtually identical.

I don't know anything about triple-rate springs, but in general a heavier spring will help prevent diving and increasing pre-load on an 'adequate' spring will help accomplish the same thing also. Another good recommendation to put the limiters back in the middle hole, that will settle down the tippyness a little bit. Add some tension on the front track spring also, that will transfer some weight back and may help in this circumstance.

 

[Z-Man]

Set the limiter strap to the middle hole like 94fordguy sugested. All the way out that is going to one tippy trenching machine.

 

[jsledder]

Dangnabbit!! The strap is already in the middle hole. These don't have straps with holes in them like I was thinking, but it is mounted in the middle of the 3 holes.

I've got a set of freshly redone Walker air's that I bought for another project and that isn't going to work out, maybe I'll try them on this...

 

[Snow X]

Slydog 8" powders!!! Work great!!!