seems like they're in business to make money and not acquire customers. also sounds like the way insurance works. i bet there are some pretty talented individuals on here that won't have to call and ask the questions but they still have to pay the $500 for a reflash (taxation at both ends). you can buy an new ecu for only a couple hundred more but it won't have the flash you need.
Silber Reflash $500 Really!
- Thread starter MOABNUT
- Start date
seems like they're in business to make money and not acquire customers. also sounds like the way insurance works. i bet there are some pretty talented individuals on here that won't have to call and ask the questions but they still have to pay the $500 for a reflash (taxation at both ends). you can buy an new ecu for only a couple hundred more but it won't have the flash you need.
Well I am guessing Justin never "quoted" $200 since the cost has been $500 for a while now. It did used to be $300 but licence fee has gone up.
Flashing back to stock if you purchased a new kit is free.
You could have a Polaris Dealer remap the injector color for you but I am not sure of the cost. Guessing they would charge either a 1/2 or 1 hour.
Flashing back to stock if you purchased a new kit is free.
You could have a Polaris Dealer remap the injector color for you but I am not sure of the cost. Guessing they would charge either a 1/2 or 1 hour.
I my self would have gave him my dealer cost on it but that is still more than $200.
I can see $200 if you bought a new kit from Silber and wanted to take your setup off an old sled and put it on a new sled, and having to get a new flash on the new sled.
I can also see $500 to just get a reflash for the first time. A reflash to an audi costs about the same, and they have a lot more cars they flash then the sled industry.
I can also see $500 to just get a reflash for the first time. A reflash to an audi costs about the same, and they have a lot more cars they flash then the sled industry.
J
jim
Well-known member
I can see this. And nothing against anyone here, but your typical person who is buying the used kits is in it to save money...which means they aren't going to try things and tune. They are going to call and call and call to troubleshoot issues that come from used set-ups and to get the cheap/free set-up without wanting to pay a dime for it. Not to mention that the "perfect condition" used stuff is prone to be missing a part or two or not be in "perfect condition"...and this takes time/resources/$$$$ to figure out. So, who pays for it...either the company does or the consumer does or they both do.
One huge problem in the sledding industry is the lack of sustainability with the small companies...they are here one day, and gone the next. They leave the industry because everyone wants the "we are buddies because we both like snowmobiling" deal and they don't make money. I'm all for a small business charging a bit more and sticking around. Is great for our sport. The end result is we all end up with better quality stuff for less $$$$ at the end of the day.
Everybody wants a great deal, but if a company gives out great deals all the time they wont be around long. I can settle with getting a fair deal so that the company can stay around to continue giving out fair deals.
Spend 100k in having someone breaking an ecu and developing software. Then tell me how you feel about charging for it.
T
TheBreeze
Well-known member
Exactly.
I deal with flashes/software everyday & know the gig. I will stand behind my comment though!
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Double edged sword.........
When sales go down, then the same company shouldn't complain either.
I think everyone is just saying that 500.00 for a reflash seems a bit high. When compared to other vehicle "reflashes", simply put this is higher priced and guys are wondering why????
I don't expect anything for nothing but price point fairness and attracting more customers is key. How many guys may buy a used turbo but then the next time around they will probably be a new one???
Compared to who specifically??
This isn't just a reflash back to stock. It's a flash to an aftermarket tune. Compare it to buying a tune for your vehicle not getting it reflashed at the dealer. You are adding an aftermarket part, not a stock one.
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I was looking at purchasing a used silber turbo for my 12 pro and if I liked riding a turbo sled I would have bought a new set up for my axys. I didn't want to spend 4000.+ on a turbo not knowing if I would like riding a turbo sled or not for I have never road a turbo sled and no one in my group has 1 for me to try. But after finding out how much I would be spending on a ecu 12 pro to a 13+ ecu, the flash and injectors I've decided to pass on a turbo from silber. So in the long run the high cost of the flash has cost them a possible sale on a turbo or even a couple if the others I ride with like how the silber turbos work.
I mean no disrespect but if they cost of having a properly fueled kit is not worth it, maybe a turbo was not for you.
The 12's must have a 13'+ ECU in order to have a flash. Like said you could have a dealer maybe give you a better deal than the retail price of the upgrade. You could always run the box that came with the 12 kit and pay no extra.
Trying to compare a used kit on a 12 to see if you would like it on a new Axys is not a good comparison at all. Maybe find someone in your area that would let you get on one would be better, or close anyways.
The 12's must have a 13'+ ECU in order to have a flash. Like said you could have a dealer maybe give you a better deal than the retail price of the upgrade. You could always run the box that came with the 12 kit and pay no extra.
Trying to compare a used kit on a 12 to see if you would like it on a new Axys is not a good comparison at all. Maybe find someone in your area that would let you get on one would be better, or close anyways.
When you have technology that nobody else has you can name the price of it. People seem to forget that detail. Yes I know bullydog software has the same capabilities but sadly half the companies that have access to bullydog software and tuners can't make their products run as good as they should.
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To be fair though, if I was quoted 200 originally and you were led to believe that and when it came time to get it done it changed to 500 I'd be just as mad. I always get prices put down in a text, email or PM when I'm doing these kinds of deals so that I know and whoever I'm dealing with knows what's what. See it all the time when people talk on the phone and it's all BS'ed to a deal and then it changes and no one has proof of a previous deal.
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yep ^^
i guess we'll never know if the OP was in fact quoted
the different price
it does seem unlikely that Justin would quote a price
that isn't what they've been charging ????
i'm confused ha ha
i guess we'll never know if the OP was in fact quoted
the different price
it does seem unlikely that Justin would quote a price
that isn't what they've been charging ????
i'm confused ha ha
IMO... keep the two separate.
First off... JJ... thank you, sincerely, for taking the time to post up your thoughtful reply for our readers.
I can see charging a service fee for customer support to a new owner... there is a good chance that person is going to need "Square one" help... but maybe not.
If the second owner DOES need CS assistance... then, IMO, have a standard "buy in fee" for customer service... that is just plain FAIR IMO.
If they don't need CS, then the MFG's resources are not 'consumed'.
Customer-Service calls cost the MFG ... PLAIN AND SIMPLE... And it is right that the MFG should be compensated for this.
New owners always have a much higher probability of needing help... the same help that the first owner probably needed and now needs to be repeated... a mfg could waste a lot of time and money in this scenario 'retraining" the new customer.
Anyone calling in with a CS question should have a "customer ID"...If a sale happens with a re-flash a new Cust. number is assigned with the Reflash... and the original owners ID is removed.... no "double dipping" in a used kit sale scenario... and is easy to implement.
If the sale/transfer is not recorded and the new owner is using the customer ID number of the original owner... that's just plain dishonest....but should be easy to distinguish from the old questions.
If a person who bought a used kit calls in with a CS question... then they have the option to buy the "CS Package" or decline and figure it out on their own or with help from others.
Most questions are answered here on the forums or could be sorted out that way. Heck, the forums are how many of the turbo companies got the word out in the first place about their kits.... and the support from others on here is one of the things that I love about this 'place'.
I consider a re-flash to be a service item, a part ... just like a replacement charge tube or other part of the kit... not the cost of entry into a support network for the product.
Those two items, customer-support and parts-support, are mutually exclusive to me.
It should be something that is expressed OVERTLY to anyone buying a new kit from Silber (or kit from any other company for that matter)... That if/when they choose to sell their kit that there will be a cost to 'un-flash' their ECU... and, any subsequent buyers of the used kit will bear a cost should they need a re-flash... and what that cost would be expected to be.
Swapping an ECU with a second buyer of the kit is a good option IF the sled is the same year and the injector color-code is the same... but I also believe that the ECU is 'key'd' to the MFD/PIDD... and contains the sleds VIN ID numbers? So, that might be sticky...Though any warranty should be voided on the sled if you add a turbo anyway.
To me, the price of re-flash to the original owner should be the same price for any subsequent owner, the cost, for Silber, of doing this service is the same in both scenarios, right? Or is there a special licensing fee, paid to 3rd party, for a different ECU with some kind of internal ID number the re-flash equipment reads??
Customer service should be charged for again to the new customer , as that may have been 'used up' by the first owner... but that is just my opinion, and, as stated above... the owners of proprietary goods have the right to charge what ever they want.
The lesson here is to know, "up front", that a re-flash has a higher price tag as a secondary buyer... and that for the seller this DEVALUES their sale value of a used kit (or used sled with that kit on it) by at least that amount.... less money for the person selling the used kit/sled ... Understanding this, as the person buying the kit/sled, is a key bit of information and have your "Eyes wide open" in terms of potential future costs... as LH points out with the ES analogy.
A used turbo kit should be sold with the ECU or be discounted appropriately taking into account the $500 price tag of the re-flash...otherwise a key part, that the kit will not function without, is not included.
To me, a "used/demo" turbo kit, that had a $4000 price when new , knowing the cost of a re-flash and efforts/shipping involved... should be worth, maybe, $2000 to $2500 (or so) if the kit is complete and in truly excellent condition. Otherwise, buy a new one when they are on sale.
I feel this is true for any brand of turbo kit out there that uses a re-flashed ECU.
MY 2¢
.
First off... JJ... thank you, sincerely, for taking the time to post up your thoughtful reply for our readers.
I can see charging a service fee for customer support to a new owner... there is a good chance that person is going to need "Square one" help... but maybe not.
If the second owner DOES need CS assistance... then, IMO, have a standard "buy in fee" for customer service... that is just plain FAIR IMO.
If they don't need CS, then the MFG's resources are not 'consumed'.
Customer-Service calls cost the MFG ... PLAIN AND SIMPLE... And it is right that the MFG should be compensated for this.
New owners always have a much higher probability of needing help... the same help that the first owner probably needed and now needs to be repeated... a mfg could waste a lot of time and money in this scenario 'retraining" the new customer.
Anyone calling in with a CS question should have a "customer ID"...If a sale happens with a re-flash a new Cust. number is assigned with the Reflash... and the original owners ID is removed.... no "double dipping" in a used kit sale scenario... and is easy to implement.
If the sale/transfer is not recorded and the new owner is using the customer ID number of the original owner... that's just plain dishonest....but should be easy to distinguish from the old questions.
If a person who bought a used kit calls in with a CS question... then they have the option to buy the "CS Package" or decline and figure it out on their own or with help from others.
Most questions are answered here on the forums or could be sorted out that way. Heck, the forums are how many of the turbo companies got the word out in the first place about their kits.... and the support from others on here is one of the things that I love about this 'place'.
I consider a re-flash to be a service item, a part ... just like a replacement charge tube or other part of the kit... not the cost of entry into a support network for the product.
Those two items, customer-support and parts-support, are mutually exclusive to me.
It should be something that is expressed OVERTLY to anyone buying a new kit from Silber (or kit from any other company for that matter)... That if/when they choose to sell their kit that there will be a cost to 'un-flash' their ECU... and, any subsequent buyers of the used kit will bear a cost should they need a re-flash... and what that cost would be expected to be.
Swapping an ECU with a second buyer of the kit is a good option IF the sled is the same year and the injector color-code is the same... but I also believe that the ECU is 'key'd' to the MFD/PIDD... and contains the sleds VIN ID numbers? So, that might be sticky...Though any warranty should be voided on the sled if you add a turbo anyway.
To me, the price of re-flash to the original owner should be the same price for any subsequent owner, the cost, for Silber, of doing this service is the same in both scenarios, right? Or is there a special licensing fee, paid to 3rd party, for a different ECU with some kind of internal ID number the re-flash equipment reads??
Customer service should be charged for again to the new customer , as that may have been 'used up' by the first owner... but that is just my opinion, and, as stated above... the owners of proprietary goods have the right to charge what ever they want.
The lesson here is to know, "up front", that a re-flash has a higher price tag as a secondary buyer... and that for the seller this DEVALUES their sale value of a used kit (or used sled with that kit on it) by at least that amount.... less money for the person selling the used kit/sled ... Understanding this, as the person buying the kit/sled, is a key bit of information and have your "Eyes wide open" in terms of potential future costs... as LH points out with the ES analogy.
A used turbo kit should be sold with the ECU or be discounted appropriately taking into account the $500 price tag of the re-flash...otherwise a key part, that the kit will not function without, is not included.
To me, a "used/demo" turbo kit, that had a $4000 price when new , knowing the cost of a re-flash and efforts/shipping involved... should be worth, maybe, $2000 to $2500 (or so) if the kit is complete and in truly excellent condition. Otherwise, buy a new one when they are on sale.
I feel this is true for any brand of turbo kit out there that uses a re-flashed ECU.
MY 2¢
.
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Just got off the phone with Justin. I am in a similar situation but there are differences. I bought a brand new kit from them last year for my 155.
I am now looking at buying a new 163 for me and taking the turbo off of the 155 and putting it back to stock for me wife.
I called and they said the ecu's will swap and the speedometer will be fine because of the belt drive to belt drive. They did mention that I need to look at the injector color to make sure it is the same otherwise it won't work.
I asked if the colors for the injectors are different what needs to happen? They said that if they are not the ecu needs to be shipped to them to have reflashed. That's not a problem but was told that it was going to be a $250 service charge.
I bought my turbo kit from them and mean while I had my exhaust from their kit fail. The bolts from a style exhaust they dont make anymore that are tack welded in place broke off while I was riding. The bolts backed all the way out of the muffler and the muffler fell out while I was riding. Because of the exhaust leak it melted my pull rope insides and cost me $100 to get a used one off ebay. I missed rides because of down time. When I called them to get my exhaust they felt bad and said they dont have any in stock and would get me one as soon as possible. This was a month ago. They still do not have an exhaust for me and have had to spend $150 at a local machine shop to fix it.
Really like the performance of their kit, that is not the issue. I am disappointed at the availability of their manufactured parts and not telling their buyers that their will be a service fee for every ECU that is being mapped.
Now I directly asked "why" about the service fee. I was told that they have to pay royalties to the person who cracked the ECU. They have to have a S/N and V/N submitted to this person and they pay for every ECU being mapped.
Long story short. I love this kit. It runs great but, If you plan on taking your turbo off and swapping to a new sled like me be prepared for at minimum a $250 service fee.
I am now looking at buying a new 163 for me and taking the turbo off of the 155 and putting it back to stock for me wife.
I called and they said the ecu's will swap and the speedometer will be fine because of the belt drive to belt drive. They did mention that I need to look at the injector color to make sure it is the same otherwise it won't work.
I asked if the colors for the injectors are different what needs to happen? They said that if they are not the ecu needs to be shipped to them to have reflashed. That's not a problem but was told that it was going to be a $250 service charge.
I bought my turbo kit from them and mean while I had my exhaust from their kit fail. The bolts from a style exhaust they dont make anymore that are tack welded in place broke off while I was riding. The bolts backed all the way out of the muffler and the muffler fell out while I was riding. Because of the exhaust leak it melted my pull rope insides and cost me $100 to get a used one off ebay. I missed rides because of down time. When I called them to get my exhaust they felt bad and said they dont have any in stock and would get me one as soon as possible. This was a month ago. They still do not have an exhaust for me and have had to spend $150 at a local machine shop to fix it.
Really like the performance of their kit, that is not the issue. I am disappointed at the availability of their manufactured parts and not telling their buyers that their will be a service fee for every ECU that is being mapped.
Now I directly asked "why" about the service fee. I was told that they have to pay royalties to the person who cracked the ECU. They have to have a S/N and V/N submitted to this person and they pay for every ECU being mapped.
Long story short. I love this kit. It runs great but, If you plan on taking your turbo off and swapping to a new sled like me be prepared for at minimum a $250 service fee.
A Polaris dealer can map the injector color for you.
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