O
Original OT
Member
Brew, where Big HP is added this is true. Where minimal HP is added this is not always the rule.
OT
OT
SHR860 vs RK860
- Thread starter nuggetau
- Start date
S
Summit Guy
Member
I am running 22grams primary pin weight with a 4 year old RKT 827 kit.
R
RKT
Well-known member
Man.. I thought this day would never come... I am actually going to agree with OT
Clutches that are in synchronization with each other WILL adjust to any added power via, just shifting out to a different shift ratio.. In fact, this is what is a true sign of PROPER clutching.. Clutches that get all crazy after you add some power were never in sync to begin with..
I will relay an old story (I have many others) but this one is a very good one to illustrate this point..
Year 2003
Sleds: 1 2002 RKT 827, 1 RKT ported 800 drop, 1 2002 Stock Summit. ALL 151" tracks
Location: Flat groomed road at 8,000ft..
Race length--- about a 1/2 mile
Lined up all 3 sleds 5 times.. Result was always the same. 827 out in front (long way) Drop In behind a solid 3 lengths and losing ground the longer we ran.. Stocker: Not sure if he was even there.. LOL
Over and over. same result..
Went to the trailer to test out my new custom 1 off sets of Decker Twin Pipes that I hired Steve Decker to produce.
Bolted them on the drop in kit engine.. (took about 1/2 hour or so).
Went back to the same road.. Lined up.. At this point the stocker just watched because he was getting tired of getting plastered with snow.
Anyway. .lined up the 827 and the drop in with Deckers..
The drop in kit came out about even and then started to pull and stay about 1 length in front of the 827 EVERY time.. the 827 could not pull on it at all where before it would continually pull away.
Checked the rpms on the drop in kit.. SAME rpm as without the pipes But it had just made up 4 lengths and some serious speed.
Then we DROPPED some weight to get the rpms higher than stock and lined them up again.. Then the drop in kit would end up about 3 lengths in front of the 827 every time.
Conclusion: made up over 4 lengths with NO rpm gained or loss... Then dropped some weight, got the rpms up, and it went even faster..
Kelsey
I have found this to be true 100% of the time....whether a Polaris, Cat or Doo...it's just physics.
If there was a magical clutching setup that automatically adjusted for power, we would have only 1 setup combination.
Not trying to start another pi$$ing match, there's been enough of that....But some productive discussion is good for everyone
JMHO. This is why we have to change the amount of pin (or ramp) weight when we ride at different altitudes. Do we run less pin weight at 10,000ft than we do at sea-level with the same sled?? Why is that?
Last edited:
H
HPJUNKIE
Active member
Unfortunately I took a wrong turn last season and purchased an assault in the early spring and sold my summit. It was a POS and sawed its self in half in less than 600 miles.
I have a 2010 hill climb XRS coming right now I know my doo stuff and the doo aftermarket thank you very much.
BJ still has yet to supply any solid proof other then cheerleaders. Big bores are a gimmick more and more guys are discovering this after wasting their money.
BJ post up the 860 dyno runs, still waiting...
This is just crazy! TJ if you are not planning on purchasing a 860 from SHR. what does it really matter 2 u?
Just were do you think those numbers came from??? I spend $1000's of dollars on 2 different dyno shops locally to verify my work and aftermarket parts...
This summer alone ...3 different cylinder specs for my new 640HO...3 different dyno days...TNT 600 is 105 hp stock...112 hp day 1...118 hp day 2...125 hp day 3 and with reeds/pipe it was over 130hp...
I offer/sell pump gas trail mods...built from dyno testing and proven on lakes/hills all over the world...
As for the big guy thing, thats true, and your right it doesnt mean ya cant question what I doo, BUT the way you do it proves you have no interest in my work or what I doo, so go back to your local perf shop (Bondi??) and run his stuffI dont care...otherwise clam up, your NOT helping anyone and YOU look like the FOOL-BJ
1st off Turbojamie you are a real tool!
2nd I would like to say that I was Bj's first 640BB guy. I was soooo impressed with his service and info I could not believe it. He always kept me informed as to what was going on and what he was dooing with the DYNO Testing(for TJ)and the HP #'s the BB was dooing. When I came to pick up my sled after completetion, he showed this funny little peice of paper with torque #'s and HP #'s. What an amazing thing I see. DYNO SHEETS!
I could see where he started out with the dyno #'s and what the final result was at the very end.
Soooooooooooo TurboJamie, the dyno testing really is there and soooo are the #'s from it.
He does not have his own Dyno.
I am fairly new to the cities area and for me to trust anyone with my sled is a stretch, heck I don't even like having a car tech work on my vehicle for warranty purposes if I don't have too. Would rather fix something myself.
Big John has done everything promised and more.
One of the last things he said to me when I was picking up my sled was to make sure you bring it back to me when the snow flies and the temps get cold to doo a final tune on the machine for me. I was amazed.
He even calls me from time to time to let me know the little things he has figured out from the dyno testing and what would increase my HP #'s from where I am currently at.
Great guy and would tell anyone so, service is top notch!
THANKYOU BIGJOHN!
I am very excited for winter to fly and see what the little TNT can Doo.
T
TurboJamie
Well-known member
Your talking about a kit you haven't even had on snow yet, I am still waiting for dyno sheets from SHR, RKT showed his.
S
ski-doo junkie
Well-known member
Does anyone hear that mindless flapping coming from the corner ?????
Must be the troll again.
Must be the troll again.
S
sledsrock
Well-known member
Bawahahahahahaha.......and a really really dumb troll at that!!!!!!
Hell I even had Big John put together a 827 motor for me , and it has not missed a beat !! go figure !! LOL
If bye now with all compliments and NO criticism about the man and his work you can't come to the conclution he is a stand up guy (Big Guy at that) than you are too dumb to read a dino sheet.
If bye now with all compliments and NO criticism about the man and his work you can't come to the conclution he is a stand up guy (Big Guy at that) than you are too dumb to read a dino sheet.
T
TT670
Well-known member
Ok but he has dyno sheets! So what is it thats good enough, dyno sheets or guys coming here and telling how good they run?
John wont give you the satisfaction of a dyno sheet, his reputation sells itself and youre not the kind of customer he wants anyway.
T
TurboJamie
Well-known member
All it shows is that, he isn't telling it all, CFM is all that matters to me when I see the runs. A 2 storke is a big air pump. I would give RKt a shake on his stuff because he actually came in and answered the questions without an arrogant tone and posted what was asked cudos to Kelsey.
R
RKT
Well-known member
Look..
John is not hiding anything and neither am I.. BJ is a stand up feller and his BB runs hard..
If you guys are not comfortable purchasing a BB kit without dyno sheets, then don't.. simple as that..
The proof of performance is NOT on some dyno sheet.. It is on the snow..
Like I said earlier.. anybody can come ride with me anytime.. I am sure the same goes for BJ...
John and I are NOT in competition with each other.. So, threads like these (SHR vs. RKT) will not amount to much more than an opening to a bunch of thread drift and personal attacks.. These are no good for anybody...
Come ride them and see for yourself.. then tell us how they run..
Peace
Kelsey
Last edited:
ya know TJ... You are certainly welcome to your opinions.. But they are just that..
Like I stated above.. I have 2 year old (many 860 revisions back) dyno sheets done at DTR (the standard) that clearly show well over 167HP on a heat soaked engine. and then you say. not possible,,
I am not real fond of being called a liar.. I suspect you would not be fond of it either. BJ-ditto...
and to boot. you are riling up Slim.. you do not want none of that..
Why discredit claims when you have no proof to do so?? Just curious.
Why not.. take anybody's claims for face value? Coming on here and starting a fiasco with no base to support it.. seems unreasonable.
Kelsey
Kelsey- Didnt "we" run with/match/beat up on for over an hour 2 PGTM8's and 1 PGTD8 on a certain mountain with 2 860's???
I wonder what the dyno thought about that...I wonder if it was OK'd by the dyno...I did get a hall pass from the dyno...I wonder if Oprah said it was ok??...
Roughly 50 SHR 860R customers just this summer/fall believe in me and my work...I dont need to play "lets race a dyno sheet" with anyone...If someone chooses SHR they get the best I can offer...if you choose someone else?? so be it and good luck!!
My pump gas trail safe dyno numbers are clearly listed below...more power is available if you so wish...5600 miles on one 860 and the OBVIOUS porting is shown in another thread for those who like to "see" porting...the 3 BB kits I fixed this summer (read un ported)...make life difficult for me/Kelsey IMHO-BJ
BTW- I wonder if this is the same Jamie from dootalk.......
Last edited:
O
Original OT
Member
KELSEY, has it right regarding the balance in clutch compnants. The helix, spring selection and ramp profile does most of the workey along with a good dependable belt. While the pin weights when used correctly allows the tuner to fine tune the rpm to allow the motor to operate at rated rpm spec....imo pin-weight is as over rated as is the TRA clicker which is what many guys rely on for rpm gains at elevations because there clutch setups are slightly out of tune.
OT
OT
O
Original OT
Member
BJ, you have a SHR motor running in Star Valley Wyo. that gets it's azz handed to it on a regular bases....not going to mention any names.
OT
OT
M
MARCUSO
Well-known member
What does this thread have to do with clutching?
Actually this thread is getting kinda retarded in many ways. anyways..LOL
Your missing the point here,
I have SEEN the dyno sheets, he does not need to post them, he shows his customers them. Get it!
As stated multiple times in this thread, posting dyno #'s just does not happen that often, too many bench racers out there that way more than these guys that DOO this for a living.
All you have done with this thread is give both guys more attention and advertising, which is fine by me, this is their job and how they put food on the table.
You just have not SEEN them, maybe cause he does not feel the need to show YOU them, doesn't mean they do not exsist.
Maybe if YOU got a kit from him and showed some respect things would go a little better for you.
Go back to your poo please!
Everyone who visits this link to complain and discredit these Builders is typically riding a stocker and that's how they justify decision to stay stock, There are a few acceptations as for Dave B. These guys fill a void for most who are looking for that edge, and these motors are more powerful than the run of the mill 800. However a poorly tuned BB will not perform. as with any motor. What's even more comical is after years of Badmouthing these naysayers will usually buy a BB, Mark my words It will happen! These negative post put the builder at a disadvantage and If they don't respond there is a perception that their is some truth to the claims. Go Big or just simply go away, We don't need ya! A big Thanks to the Motor builders for all their dedication to this sport, Its always evolving and strives for the advantage. I have yet to find a builder who was anything less that helpful and knowledgably. My two cents$
Similar threads
