Shotgun Pellet Ballistics Info Needed - Legal Issue (Dog Shot)

[Idaho Slim]

My Rottweiler Jackson (Large 3 yr. old male) was shot Sunday evening, we just got him home from Mondays surgery which removed about 50 pellets from his hind hocks/legs (basically his ankle's). Total pellets in him that I can count from the X-ray is about 142. I have confronted the shooter, and I am wondering about legal options, and whether he was shot twice, (Both in the rear end). Our local county code state's the "Dog at large" law, that dogs can be destroyed (shot) if harassing/attacking livestock) which I agree with. Also If they are threatening a human or attacking someone.

Both hind legs were severley bleeding from 2-3 large punctures/holes, and around both serious wounds were multiple holes that did not hardly bleed and the pellets were only at a shallow depth.

I am famialar with reloading & ballistics with bullets.

My questions is, can a single shot from a shotgun have such a wide difference in penetrating power? Or (as I suspect) was he shot twice. I have the bb's they could get out. They compare with a 20 ga that I opened up. Do shotgun shells from a .410, .20 ga. & .12 ga all use the same size shot, just different amount?

The wonderfull part is Jackson had surgery yesterday afternoon, the vet cut him from hock to toes to evacuate the bb's in both legs. My vet was very concerned he would lose 1 leg @ the ankle joint. And we expected him to be at the vet all this week, they called and said come git him, he's walking! Incredible pain, but talk about Heart & courage.

Please let me know about the shotgun pellets if you have knowledge about it.

Most likely I will do nothing, since I made a "pact" that if Jackson came out of this with 2 functional legs that no matter the cost, that is all that mattered.
Thanx. SLIM

 

[INDEEP]

"My questions is, can a single shot from a shotgun have such a wide difference in penetrating power? Or (as I suspect) was he shot twice. I have the bb's they could get out. They compare with a 20 ga that I opened up. Do shotgun shells from a .410, .20 ga. & .12 ga all use the same size shot, just different amount?"

Usually the individual pellet's have close to the same velocity because of the wad. All shot is the same size no matter what the gauge. A 4's a 4 a 8's a 8 whether 20 or 12 gauge. Some turkey and goose loads have multiple shot sizes like 4's and 6's or 4's and BB's.

 

[togwotee9]

Here's a little info for you to read

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_shell

http://www.gun-shots.net/ballistics-ammunition.shtml

http://www.chuckhawks.com/12gauge.htm

 

[ericbigbore]

Slim,

I don't have an answer for you but I'm glad you were able to save your dog. Keep us updated and good luck. Eric

 

[TIM]

slim

I love you and you know that. A couple of questions. Whose property was the dog on when the dog was shot?

and what does it matter how many times jackson was shot?

Fish and game told me that a good way to scare the black bears away from my house was to use 8 shot in a 20 gauge at over 30 yards and there would be no damage to the bear but a very sore bear. That tells me that the shooter and jackson where very close. Hopefulyy jackson was on your property and not theres, becasue than things get real complicated.

I threatend to shoot the neighbors dog because it kept getting into my stuff. right or wrong the owner ignored my warnings and someone else shot the dog. I got blamed, and did not do it. Be sure you know who shot jackson before you do anything. I am sorry to hear that, but something must have occured for someone to shoot jackson.

I hope you don't take this wrong, as it is not meant to be that way. I have been close to being on the other side and it sucks.

tim

 

[xrated]

shot size is the same no matter the gauge.

It should all have the same power for penetration....but not all the same. Some bb's could be odd shape, etc and not fly the same.

Sounds almost like he was running away when shot with the damage in the back. Also seems like whoever did it was trying to inflict pain with it being in the back. Seems if he was trying to protect his stuff, etc. it would have been a kill type shot. Or the guy is just plain a bad shot.

Sorry to hear this happened and I hope Jackson was not in the wrong.

Keep us updated.

 

[Disco Dan Richter]

Due to the large amount of shot(you can get that much in one shell) most likely shot more than once. The pattern will decide how much shot will hit at a distance. If that much was in him, likely was point blank(whick would result is open fleshy wounds) or shot multiple times.
If you shoot a dog close enough, they will stop and turn, slowing them enough so as if you shoot again, it will look like one blast, I.E. some shot will be displaced in a large area, and some may look like a deeper wound if the dog was running away.
I am sorry to say it, but I had to do this once, it was sad, but a life was on the line and it wasnt mine.

 

[Blu Du]

depends on the choke and the shot size. i would say he was shot atleast 2 times if not more. if pellets were just under the skin it was long range 100 yrds possible

 

[blue fluff]

Yeah, keep us informed. I'm so upset for you!

My Rottie, Segen, was my constant companion for 11 years (putting her down was THE most painful thing EVER in my life). The surgeries she had to go through in her life were pretty stressful. I lived alone and worked alone out in a remote area of Idaho (I saw people twice a week and she was with me 24/7). I kept her fenced in. Then I rescued a Border Collie/Rottie cross (Harley) as a buddy for her and would let them out in a "digging pit" outside the yard to dig because it kept them from digging in the lawn.

One day after I'd had her several months, I let Harley out to dig for a few minutes before I left for Sandpoint for an apt, but she had oddly taken off and I had to leave.

I noticed my whack-job neighbor's sheep wandering around on my property ("open range" and I had 10 acres) as I drove out. I came home and his wife had left a msg on the phone to call her back and I knew what happened because Harley wasn't home. She was on her own property, saw sheep and the Border Collie in her chased them.

They of course ran back to the neighbors and he shot her dead with a shotgun, blasted a hole in her side. Didn't even bother to look at her. His kids loved that dog, took her for walks with me, etc.

When I asked if I could pay for any damage or vet bills for his sheep, he said there was none. (of course, I knew that, she was "herding" but I wanted to make him admit he shot her for no reason). He shot his own dogs for no reason too. He thought one killed a lamb, but it ended up the ewe had twins and one was stillborn. Too late.

He didn't take care of his stuff. His sheep had maggots. The pigs' pens would have so much crap in them it'd suck my boots off when I fed them for them. His wife was one of my best friends and when she divorced him, it was one of the best days of my life.

 

[snow_knight]

There is way too many variables to make a judgement call on it.. between all of the different gauges, shot size, dram, quality of ammo, choke size, barrel length, etc.. With that many pellets, he was shot more than once. As for the depth.. just having two different brands of ammo but same shot size and dram will make a huge difference on penetration... but my guess is one or more shots close range, and one or more shots at 60+ yards

 

[Mafesto]

I hate to read these stories because I get drawn in very easily.

People who shoot another mans dog obviously have no idea how attached some of us are to our dogs.

Sorry for what your dog is going through.

 

[Estevahn]

Glad to hear your pal is going to make it.

One of ours was peppered a few years ago. Still has a few pellets in her. She doesn't run very far from home now, so that's a good thing. But she became very gun shy, so hunting with her is out of the question.

 

[cubby]

Not to be nosey but why did this A$$hole shot your dog anyways?

 

[winter brew]

Terrible deal, I hope he heals well and fast!
I can't say for a shotgun, but we fire alot of debris (small and large, same dimension and different) from guns, various size cannons, air guns etcc....in testing airplane parts. I can tell you we see a big variance in impact damage from the same shot, lots of variables.

 

[Idaho Slim]

Wow, thanx for the replies, and Thankyou for the well wishes for Jack.

There is a lot of Why's, where's, If's etc., that is not really an issue, The shooter's neighbor is our local sherrif deputy, It has come to light the shooter is "a tad off". (WTF does this type of person have a gun! ??) Our community & county is tolerant of "Dogs at Large."

Regardless, my intent is to ascertain "Malice". (Shot twice)

Upon confronting the shooter, I asked, You shot him because he was a Rottweiler didnt you?" His response was silence, and his wife started to cry and nodded yes at me.

I replied, if he was a Beagle, would you have shot him? "No, but so&so has mean Rottweilers. We were scared."

Anyways, it is good to hear confirmation of my take on it that he was shot twice, & purely because he is Rottweiler, after more research, the guy is destitute, losing their home, no job, and 3 kids .............. the only thing that might make a bittersweet difference, is, he should not own guns

The overriding issue is, Jack has a chance, not out of the woods yet tho ........................................

Thanx again everyone. Pics of my boy.

p.s. his "Berries" escaped damage! Pups are still possible!

 

[Transporter]

I pitty the fool that shoots at my rottie.

 

[Reese]

Sorry to hear the news slim. You should ask that clown if he would shoot pickles too since she looks like rottie. I know you and snojoe love your dogs like they are your children and I hope that things work out for the best. Puppy prayers from our dogs to yours. Take care, Reese

 

[Himark]

In one 1 1/8 12 gauge shell with 7.5 shot<------------very common there are suppose to be approx. 400 pellets. I recently cut open a factory load and counted 366 pellets. I did this to compare to my homemade shot which was 394. My #'s are exact without question, I can also tell you how many pellets will be with in a 18" circle at 16 yards if you want the patterns and proof since I just did it last Sunday to document my shot. I will take pics of boards tommorow and post since I have to have pics of them anyway.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Slim, thoughts and prayers for your buddy..I would have a very tough time not returning the favor and putting some shot in his ***.........what does the sherrif say? anything they can do?

 

[Scott]

GLAD he's OK. GLAD nobody is dead. GLAD no dogs are dead.

GLAD you know me well enough that I can say this...but Uhhh Mark....THAT is a funny ****in pic.

BTW, berries can take ALOT of abuse before they are rendered inoperable.
Case in point my well documented attemt at shortstop to get a glove on a bullet of a one-hopper to the boys back in '99. 3 kids and 10 years later (ver easily I might add) and things are fine. They are tough little soldiers. You need not be worried there. HAHA. Carry on......