shot placement, plus big, medium or small bore rifles. lets talk

[TIM]

personally i think quick humane kills are a combination of shot placement, bullet construction and than cartridge. It seems like you can get away with 2 out of the 3, but 3 out of those 3 is what it is all about. Personally i think shoot the biggest you can shoot acurately. So that will be different for every individual. I do believe the bigger cartridges allow more room for error and it allows alot more chances at somewhat not great shot angles. ie quartering towards you etc. However if you can't shoot the cartridge accuratly and consistely it don't do any good what you are shooting.

does anyone believe that a full metal jacket bullet should be used on deer? just curious.

 

[TIM]

also, should you match your gun to the game you are chasing or towards the country you are hunting in?

 

[Sidehiller]

I haven't hunted in the last 8 years, but I shot 24 bull elk in 24years, all with 130 grain bullets out of a Remington .270 with a Leupold 4 power scope. Longest shot probably 300 yards. Never had one go over 20 feet. I think 21 were head shots. My dad used to tell me "shoot 'em in the head - we don't eat that"
By the way, at least half the time I was hunting on private property, that helps a bunch.

 

[MTdream]

example: you shoot an elk in the stomach w/ a 223, it's going to take days to die from the teeny hole you put in it. Shoot that same elk with a 338 in the same spot and it's going to die a lot sooner.

I tend to no shoot for the stomache personally

I would never advocate a .223 for elk except at extremely short distances...and with the exact right bullet, in the hands of someone that clearly understands anatomy, placement, etc.

according to the stat I have been told repeatedly the 2.5X-3.0X the animals weight in energy...a .223 will never meet the minimum at any range...so IMHO, it is not an effective or ethical weapon (total opinion) for elk... the largest .223 bullet (commercial loads which is what most use) is a 77 grain hollow point...which is more than likely not powerful enough to make it into the boiler even on a broadside shot...that being said..I am sure someone has done it...but again, the key is consistently and repeatedly...

 

[MTdream]

personally i think quick humane kills are a combination of shot placement, bullet construction and than cartridge. It seems like you can get away with 2 out of the 3, but 3 out of those 3 is what it is all about. Personally i think shoot the biggest you can shoot acurately. So that will be different for every individual. I do believe the bigger cartridges allow more room for error and it allows alot more chances at somewhat not great shot angles. ie quartering towards you etc. However if you can't shoot the cartridge accuratly and consistely it don't do any good what you are shooting.

does anyone believe that a full metal jacket bullet should be used on deer? just curious.

agree completely with the bolded section above!!!

as to your full metal jacket...are you including like the barnes tripleX bullets? have taken a few deer with them, but personally, my guns dont shoot that load well, so I have a bunch of them that sit on the shelf...have tried everything even talking to Barnes about the bullets...could never get them sub MOA, which is not accurate enough for me...

 

[MTdream]

also, should you match your gun to the game you are chasing or towards the country you are hunting in?

can you better explain yoru question? I dont see much difference...

personally want as flat/predictable shooting gun as I can for the critters I am or potentially will encounter...

that being said, I hunt in Griz country, so I carry a handgun with me always too...

 

[xrated]

also, should you match your gun to the game you are chasing or towards the country you are hunting in?

I would think they go hand in hand.

for me in MN chasing whitetails, a 30-30 will kill the deer out to 100 yards no problem. Very rarely will I see a 100 yard shot. Most are 30 yards or so in brush....hence the 30-30 as well, it's a great brush gun/load. Why lug around a 30-6 bolt action for short range brushy hunting. It would make sense if I was hunting deer in an area where I need the range of the -06.

 

[woodzy]

I tend to no shoot for the stomache personally

I would never advocate a .223 for elk except at extremely short distances...and with the exact right bullet, in the hands of someone that clearly understands anatomy, placement, etc.

according to the stat I have been told repeatedly the 2.5X-3.0X the animals weight in energy...a .223 will never meet the minimum at any range...so IMHO, it is not an effective or ethical weapon (total opinion) for elk... the largest .223 bullet (commercial loads which is what most use) is a 77 grain hollow point...which is more than likely not powerful enough to make it into the boiler even on a broadside shot...that being said..I am sure someone has done it...but again, the key is consistently and repeatedly...

My whole argument was based on his original saying about a misshot 223 animal acting the same as getting misshot by a 338.

On your last point: a .223 to the earhole is the perfect combination.... but who's going to do that consistently!!??

 

[woodzy]

I'm not advocating gut shots people, so stop reppin me for it!!!!!!!! LOL

 

[TIM]

mt dream

elk is the game. you are hunting thick timber, would you want a flat shooting gun that is sighted in for 300 yards with a big 4x12 scope or would you prefer a lever gun in .358 with a low power scope. the shot won't exceed 100 yards.


x
look into the hornady leverlution ammo. it definatly gives the .30-30 better balistics and lets you shoot a pointed bullet in the tubular magazine, that is the only reason most .30-30 ammo is blunt nosed. not for ballistics but so the bullet point doesn't set the primer off in front of it.

tim

 

[MTdream]

I'm not advocating gut shots people, so stop reppin me for it!!!!!!!! LOL

wasnt me...I will tell you if I do... but I took it as general discussion not advocating...

I enjoy the conversation and discussion...

have a few friends that can do that ear hole shot at will from most any distance...they prefer to not play with .223 though...they prefer .308 and .50 which tells you something...longest shot for one of them is over 6000 feet...confirmed...


gave you some pos. rep. and signed it MT

 

[MTdream]

mt dream

elk is the game. you are hunting thick timber, would you want a flat shooting gun that is sighted in for 300 yards with a big 4x12 scope or would you prefer a lever gun in .358 with a low power scope. the shot won't exceed 100 yards.


x
look into the hornady leverlution ammo. it definatly gives the .30-30 better balistics and lets you shoot a pointed bullet in the tubular magazine, that is the only reason most .30-30 ammo is blunt nosed. not for ballistics but so the bullet point doesn't set the primer off in front of it.

tim

Well, my elk country is not like BC or NW MT, I hunt SW Montana...and big open shots are normal...that being said...I have never shot one beyond 200 yards (this year was furthest at around 200) all of mine have been sub 100...it comes from my archery hunting passion, would rather count hairs than powers in the scope...


as to the rest of your question, I have no idea...generally speaking, I prefer to hunt elk with a stick and strong...and given the distances you are talking, I would prefer a 100 gr. Muzzy

this is a bull from two years ago...this guys second in 2 years...and the second bull he has ever seen in the wild...shot both of them...we tracked this bull for 7+ hours...after we waited for 1+ hour for him to expire...turned out it was a worse shot than he thought...but we recovered him...

I am the dork in yellow glasses (color blind, and the help AMAZINGLY)

 

[xrated]

I'm not advocating gut shots people, so stop reppin me for it!!!!!!!! LOL

i greened ya

 

[Bubba700]

K a little preface, I am an archery hunter first and hunt the rifle season occasionally.

a few things come in to play rifle hunting that I don't see with archery hunters.
1. It seems to many rifle hunters get the idea that since they are packing one of the hard hitting .300 or a .338 that they don't have to worry about taking great shots as they would with a smaller caliber. Just what I have noticed.
2. Many don't put in the time to really know the effective range of the rifles they are shooting. IE I have a 7x57 mauser I like to pack But I know I have no business taking any shots on elk with it over 200 yards. But with my .308 Ill shoot longer with it.
3. What gun your using depends on the terrain. There isn't a one gun for every situation. Have a good buddy that packs his .338 cause we can get big 500+ yard cross canyon shots, and at the same time he packs his 45-70 Mag Research revolver for when we are in the thick trees and the shots wont be over 50 yards. Hunters need to look at the type of area they hunt and get a gun/caliber that works for them.

One of the biggest things guys need to learn is if its not a good clean shot to not take it. One of the worst feelings is making a poor shot instead of waiting for a good one, trailing an animal for a mile or 2 and then loosing the trail. Watched a good buddy do that with his 06 3 falls ago and it just about turned him off to big game hunting.

 

[Gainster]

also, should you match your gun to the game you are chasing or towards the country you are hunting in?

Sure! In long guns I shoot everything from 22 CB's to a 300 WBY Mag. I love shooting the Big calibers but when chasing whitetail bucks that are bird doggin for hot doe's down in the river bottom the smaller framed guns I own seem to be the better choice. Not that they are better brush calibers but they are smaller in size & allow me to move through the thick brush better & pull up for a shot if needed.

After using a long bolt gun for years my uncle gave me his long range rifle (Savage 99 300 Savage) & brush gun (Marlin 336 in 35 Rem) that he brought when he got back from fightin the Jap's as he called it (WWII). Hunting with the small frame 336 got me back into places I never went with the bolt gun when the deer lock down late in season.

The only thing I dont care for about the 336 or 99 is racking out the shells after the hunt so I picked up a Ruger model 96 lever in 44 Mag with a removable mag & mounted a Nikon 2-7 scope. Light & fast to shoulder the 96 is a true joy for me to hunt with stalking through down in the swamp or up in the oak flats. The LeverEvolution ammo is the Chit imo for the lever guns

 

[Nate]

how important is bullet selection in regards to hunting.

snowknight and nate
the problem with you 2 is everything is so specialized and it goes over the head of the average rifleman. But lets get your opinions on bullet selection.

I just used an 140 gr nosler accubond on a stone sheep and the bullet definalty did its job. I am getting more and more impressed with this bullet, but i doubt it is good enough for elk except for the broad side shot. What do you think?

tim

Okay,

I have shot a lot of "special" bullets but I believe it's damn hard to find a better hunting bullet than a Nosler. I really liked the Ballistic silver tips on deer. But for elk like you said, the 140gr Accubond is pretty hard to beat. I'm referring to my 6.5 stuff.

What I have in my 6.5 and what I have found to work better for me are the 140gr Moly Berger VLD's and the 139gr Scenar Moly Coated bullets. They are flatter shooting, faster, I can seat them out further, and they carry the best down range.

The competition bullets work absolutely awesome if you don't pinch the hollow point shut while loading. If you pinch the tip, all you really have is a super fast #2 pencil that acts just like a FMJ no matter if you hit spine, ribs, or any organ. The entry is the same as the exit.

Everyone hunts a little different. If we are strictly talking off the counter ammo, the .270WSM is pretty hard to beat, and I would shoot 130gr Moly Coated bergers in them. That's just what I have found that works best for me. And i'm speakin in terms of all ranges even past 1000 yards.

Really though, in the gun world, your options are very un-limited. Pretty much like buying bulk crayons, pick your favorite color

Bergers seem to work the absolute best in almost every case I throw them in, Scenars work just as good and are a bit more accurate, but definately a little harder to come by, and a little more exspensive. I will continue using Berger Moly Coated rounds for all my guns under .30cal.

Nice elk pictures BTW

 

[mtn_extreme]

Funny you should say that

I also am shooting the 140 gr moly coated in my 6.5 Leopard as I have found it to be the best.

Go figure, eh Nate!

 

[johnsodo]

ill keep my 270, 444xlr and my 45-70 Ballard rife with a 32'' barrel on it

 

[Rprecision]

There is so many things that can and do go wrong when trying to get lead on a target in the field under stress !

My thoughts are this,

-Choose a caliber that has a reasonable amount of power to the degree you can handle

-No matter what you choose, light-fast or heavy-slower, practice in the conditions you hunt in.

-There is no "Perfect" caliber that why there are hundreds !

I hunt elk with a .308 with 168 grain nosler silvertips. (A little light skined, but still perform well at extended range) I zero for 200 and consider 300 my ethical limit in the field. Even at that, a shot at 300 is going to take some time, good rest, wind, angle, etc. I can keep these loads on a paper plate to 700 if the wind cooperates.

Its all a matter of what your comfortable with, I am of the general belief I would rather be underguned and over-acurate the overguned and under-acurate.

 

[Rprecision]

ill keep my 270, 444xlr and my 45-70 Ballard rife with a 32'' barrel on it

I like you montana boys !

That 45-70 is like calling in a air strike