Sealevel Turbo M8

[TheBreeze]

thanks

My experiences include 5 psi up to 23 psi on the .325, 250 and .125 vein units. from 1983 thru 2003.

the turbo is sensitive on the exhaust side, the slightest amount of rust or light dust in the system distorts the veins. In fact, its refered to as the ( your fault damage excuse when you write the check for 1200 $ .)

the airflow figures are less than advertised.
even low boost requires high turbo rpm with lower than expected airflow


Just tryin to save you some grief,, don't take it as an attack on your turbo builder.. it aint.

Your workmanship is fantastic. take your time man




Gus

I take no offense. I am as green as possible when it comes to turbos, and just want to know more about why so many people dislike the aero since to a newbie like me it seems like a great option due to its simplicity, and advertised response. I am not setup with a builder yet, and am still reseraching what route to go at sealevel. There is not a lot of info out there. If you are riding 8000 ft and up, it is a cut and dry issue (all of the kits seem to work). Down low, and being inexperienced greatly complicates the build! Not a lot of concrete info out there.

 

[SNOW JW]

Gus I agree with allot of your post but some things I do not agree on.

Wile I don't like to hit the DET sensors on the Cats have saved my bacon many-many times as well as others I have been with and even guys I have talked to at low elv. Again sometimes when the sled is WAY lean or WAY off on Oct things happen so fast it does not help you. But on the M8's the DET does work.

Pump gas can be used-But AV (100LL) would be my fuel of choice (why not if you are spending the money on a turbo and have some fun)

Air to Air intercoolers I have a temp sensor in my ADA BD box so I am able to watch my temps all day it also will record my max temps when I can't look (most of the time)

With the fan on the system on the new BD mini intercoolers I always see a 50-80Dep drop on average 60-80deg most of the time depending on ambient air temp if it's real cold up to 100deg all of this is when going through the trees at a low rate of speed. Again this is the right sized and core and a FAN is a must. I do agree that Water to air will get colder temps then again my fuel system adjust with rising and lowering temps so I am able to get the full benefit of the intercooler as well. I would like to see what a good water cooler could do.

 

[TheBreeze]

With pump gas? Not a chance. With a gallon of 114 race fuel to every five gallons of 100 Avgas, you should be fine.

Not a chance even with lowered compression?

 

[bgreen776]

Not a chance even with lowered compression?

I'm sorry, I should have stated "with stock comp" as that is what I have experience with for trying to run pump gas. I'm no turbo expert, and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I have a few hours of field experience with a few cat turbos and a few polaris turbos. I've had a tow rope on all of them, and bloodied more than one knuckle on them as well. But I'm not going to comment on that, because I can't say for sure. Hopefully someone will answer that, theres a ton of guys on here that have a thousand times more turbo experience than me. I'd love to know!

I'm interested because I want to use off the shelf parts for my turbo build, and swapping head inserts is not an option I am willing to consider at this point. The guys I ride with are running 114 and 116 octane race fuel, have intercoolers, and don't run stock compression or anywhere near 6 lbs of boost.

 

[TurboMatt]

It seems like everyone is much happier with the Garret setups than the Aero's

 

[longhairfreak]

It seems like everyone is much happier with the Garret setups than the Aero's

Ya if you like turbo lag.

 

[TheBreeze]

So longhair freak is down with the Aero's?

 

[longhairfreak]

So longhair freak is down with the Aero's?

For smaller engines I would use aerocharger. Im planning on using a Garrett for my 1160 turbo project but that motor has enuff bottom end grunt to get past any lag I may have.

 

[gus bohne]

You guys over at boondocker have your hats on strait. The fan makes it perform well.
'
my experience with liquid as the medium is limited to very low snow late season hard groomed....asphalt for the most part, white asphalt.

120 degrees is avarage..without is insane hot. Its got to be a blast to be around a group of hardcore enthusiast in one shop.. some flyin tools and tempers for sure but lots of motivation..

My luck with det and boost In new england always ringland loss in seconds at 5 psi on pump gas.. it was midrange, I should have sent the box in to pull midrange timing back,, on the flats with 45 mph speed limits we spend lots of our riding miles and time,,,,,1/4 throttling with too much timing and 3-5 psi boost ( mid throttle or less ).

Now i know I shouldn't be running bad fuel when I won't endorse it but...
You get conned into it every few years.. 3 pistons later was back to avgas.

Now mind you the cat was out of my control,, the Doo was all my fault..


Gus

 

[TurboMatt]

My luck with det and boost In new england always ringland loss in seconds at 5 psi on pump gas.. it was midrange, I should have sent the box in to pull midrange timing back,, on the flats with 45 mph speed limits we spend lots of our riding miles and time,,,,,1/4 throttling with too much timing and 3-5 psi boost ( mid throttle or less ).

Now i know I shouldn't be running bad fuel when I won't endorse it but...
You get conned into it every few years.. 3 pistons later was back to avgas.

Now mind you the cat was out of my control,, the Doo was all my fault..


Gus

So you knew there was midrange problems, yet you kept running it till it burned down?
Seems like you didn't have enough fuel in the midrange either to help cool things down. What were you using for fuel control?
It's crazy that in one of the posts up top further there is a guy running a F6 at 8psi at sealevel and there are other examples out there as well. Yet you couldn't even get it to run at 5psi. Something doesn't add up here.

 

[gus bohne]

Matt, It was a test of a system on the market NOW to prove its merit or lack there of for the flats.

Yes I could have drown it with fuel as it was it was running at 10.6 to 11.1 on the o2. Timing on the doo's is very high in the mid. My systems get the box recurved for less mid timing at 1/2 throttle or less above 5500 rpm.

Heat Matt, Heat in the underhood, lack of intercooler and excessive coolant temps from improperly plumbed coolant flow to turbo.

.

I love to see that some have made it work on the flats in some states, in new england 2 stroke turbos on the trails on pumpgas do NOT exist..NOT ONE.

ODS Dan has a m8 but its NOT on the trails and runs on c 14. We just don't have the snow Matt, at most we average an inch or less of loose on top of the groomed frozen solid base most of the season.

Pumpgas in this part of the country runs 12-23 % ethanol, no ryhm or reason.
I do tech for RMR, we test fuel each weeek.. what I see come out of the pumps is startling..how do you tune for mystery fuel ?? you don't you run avgas.

When I see a clip of someone who did a 300 mile trail ride DAY with their pumpgas turbo 2 stroke is when I will believe it was sucessfully done. till then just some back trail riding and feild busting is not a new england region day of riding.. or an eastern canada day ,, thats 400 miles in a 6-7 hour day..
big variation in what one mans day of riding and another is from region to region.

Gus

 

[TheBreeze]

We have access to 91 and 93 octane ethanol free from the pumps up where we ride. Does that change your stance at all on pump gas?

 

[gus bohne]

To a point it does Breeze, I realize after all these years that there is no ONE answer or tune up for all ... what works for one sled may not even pull on another..

Your gonna love it and your gonna find what YOU refer for your type of riding.

Just smile, enjoy your build and listen to your friends who ride turbo 2 strokes in yur area.. the rest of us are just giving experiences in our own region for our own riding styles..

Gus

 

[TurboMatt]

To a point it does Breeze, I realize after all these years that there is no ONE answer or tune up for all ... what works for one sled may not even pull on another..

Your gonna love it and your gonna find what YOU refer for your type of riding.

Just smile, enjoy your build and listen to your friends who ride turbo 2 strokes in yur area.. the rest of us are just giving experiences in our own region for our own riding styles..

Gus

I agree.

Another thing to think of: You seem to be under the thinking that TheBreeze is doing big trail riding with this sled. This is not the case. We don't put on 300-400mile days much anymore. Usually, it's ride the trail out 5 miles to the Boonedocking spot-Ride 50-80 miles - trail ride back. That makes a big difference as well.

 

[TheBreeze]

I suppose I could have better clarified that. The sled will see trail miles, but probably no more than a lot of the mountain riders see on a daily basis accessing the back-country.

 

[gus bohne]

Ya, I get it now.
thats why regionally,, the term trail riding can mean so many different things..LOL

for what you guys are refering to , low octane fuel may well work just fine.

on carbed sleds,,, when the throttle is not wide open, the needle is the fuel limiter but the turbo is still forcing air under the slide ..

as a for instance,,, when launching a carbed turbo ON the antilag button, more often than not you will have a cough or stumble if you put the throttle to the bar, If you leave it at 1/4 to 1/3 throttle for the first 100 feet or so then APPLY throttle,, you get stunning consistent 60 foot times and those 4.5 second 660' et's that make you look like you know what your doing..LOL

i do have 1 800 that leaves with the flipper on the bar,, it also has very small pilots and a very lean needlejet,,, its weak spot is waiting for the tree to come down,,, it will go into deto and brake the porcelin on the plugs right there,, on the starting line..makes you look like you DONT know what your doing...LOL again..

carbs are primative but work for drags and speedruns without issue. like topfuelers,, no efi and still no limit to what can be done other than the rules placed in to slow them down,,( I am religiously an ALAN Johnson fan )..

Anyone who gets a set of rules named for them is damn good !

Matt, your build looks awsome too,, I'll put toghter some stuff on the latest 800 doo turbo for the poweradder twins class, it runs against the hopped up cat 4 strokes and for now,, NO limit on cc for the turbo 2 strokes,,FOR NOW<,,,

I expect an 800 cc limit to level the class .. hence my 800cc projects.

I promise to get some action vids of the 1000 carbed RT turbo up with it also.
Thanks for chatting with me guys.

Gus

 

[sledfreak89]

Your my hero

 

[TheBreeze]

Update.

Well, as the build progressed, and I learned more about the logistics of a sea level capable turbo setup and the money involved I decided that may have to wait. I would have been tapping my funds just to build the sled, and the quality fuel price and availability is definitely an issue where we ride. All obstacles that can be overcome, but will have to wait at least another year.

I decided to intsall a Boss Noss NPFI (30 hp shot) kit to at least get a taste of some big horsepower. I think this thing will be a ripper down low, and 30 extra HP at the push of a button will be nice at 10000 ft. I am looking forward to testing this Boss kit out. The install was easy, and Jeremy at Boss was good with answering the questions I had. Luckily, there are a few nitrous refill places very close by, so keeping full bottles should not be much of an issue.

 

[Jonce]

Probably not a bad move on your part. Looks like the sled will be able to handle its own with the extra push button hp.

I'm going to try my luck with the low boost sea level turbo. I will mix 30% just to be safe.