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Ronald Regan was a freaking chump

Skogen not harping on ya, I think there is a misconception about the CRP Program. you call it welfare for farmers but in fact it was our own government that came out with the program to tie up acres not to be farmed for the simple fact it was supposed to help commodity prices maintain at a profitable margin now whether or not it actually is working that is yet to be determined. The bad thing is they can't graze those acres to help cut their feed costs if they raise livestock. You guys can all gripe about farmers and ranchers all you want, but say it with an empty stomach.
 
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The free market DID NOT cause our current economic mess. Gov't DID. The cause of the housing bubble is two fold. First was FannieMae and FreddieMac were mandated by politicians (Sen. Franks, Dodd, and Meeks to name a few) to insure potentially bad loans because the Liberals felt everyone should be able to own a house regardless of their credit worthiness or ability to repay the debt.Reference the "Community Reinvestment Act". Knowing these loans were guaranteed by the Gov't, bankers created mortgage backed derivatives to increase their leverage under the false assumption that Freddie and Fannie would have enough liquidity to cover any bad loans.

Next, the Gov't kept interest rates artificially low to stimulate a market that should have been left to cool and find a natural equilibrium. We've been stacking layers and layers on this house of cards since the Gov't created currency by fiat.

Trade policy is another Gov't debacle too. But its simple to fix; tariff reciprocity across the board.

Regan spent us into oblivion to win the cold war. That victory paid huge peace dividends that following Presidents totally squandered.
 
Blisteringsnorider said:
Skogen not harping on ya, I think there is a misconception about the CRP Program. you call it welfare for farmers but in fact it was our own government that came out with the program to tie up acres not to be farmed for the simple fact it was supposed to help commodity prices maintain at a profitable margin now whether or not it actually is working that is yet to be determined. The bad thing is they can't graze those acres to help cut their feed costs if they raise livestock. You guys can all gripe about farmers and ranchers all you want, but say it with an empty stomach.
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I Know and understand why CRP was developed. But like the typical gov. program, it is flawed and abused. Just like the insurance programs now. Do you insure your crop because you need it, or because you speculate on the insurance premiums because they make you money... These programs almost make it impossible for the next generation to get started also with the price of land.

Great point about everybody always griping. We have the safest food supply in the world.
 
Just so people don't get the wrong idea....I think farmers are some of the hardest working, honest, people around. I also know some of the small
ones struggle to make ends meet and I sympathize with them....I just don't like the govt bailing out people and I agree our treaties don't help matters...

I just think that Reagan was a great leader, sure he made mistakes, but, he was a stand up guy who didn't take crap from anyone. We need more
leaders with these attributes instead of the worms and apologists that currently inhabit the DC area.......
 
Fosgate said:
I'm tired of reporters and politicains proclaiming Regan as one of the great presidents blah blah blah. I remember when He refused to further subsidize the American farming industry any more or bail it out. Banks offered no leverage and my family and I went to auctions all the time while people lost their farms. I just wonder how many people who lost their farms in the 80's to reaganomics just choke up with hatred every time they see this garbage of bailing out the banks when they were left high and dry. Now the govt wants them to fork over $ to the very same institution who took their farms away.

Our new prez barry obama has said on several occasions how he admires old Ronnie. I have a feeling he'll get a chance to pizz off farmers again. Alot of guys got caught with their pants down this last season. Speculation is running rampant already about a repeat of the 80's. Guys got caught up in the ethanol hype and leased at high land rates, ordered new equip, locked in at higher prices accross the board. Then prices plummeted. I know some people don't care about farmers, cause they always buy new trucks and being a dirt farmer is just a gravy train right?
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Fossie you know I like ya....and I am sorry you went through that when younger. I can't imagine, I have complete respect for the profession. I do believe in Reagan....no he wasn't perfect and yes he believed government should stay out of the market as did our founding fathers. I still do also...these bailouts and stimulus crap make me sick! Completely sick!

...and ruffyryder you actually think we have had a true free market recently or the past decade or two...and the free market has failed? LMAO, another bright comment by you...you have a whole basement full of them don't ya? The free market has failed because of tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much government!!!!!!!!!!!!!....and I always knew you were a socialist. Do you bow to your picture of Obama every night and then say hail Obama?
 
Like or hate him, but remember we didnt have every pissant wanna be terrorist taking pot shots at us. Remember Moamar Ghadaffi?, one of the original terrorists. He messed with us and Reagan sent a couple of B-1s to his house to pay a visit. Sent a message to the rest of them, and we all could sleep better knowing that we were still revered.
 
mountain-powder-slut said:
...and ruffyryder you actually think we have had a true free market recently or the past decade or two...and the free market has failed? LMAO, another bright comment by you...you have a whole basement full of them don't ya? The free market has failed because of too much government!!!!!!!!!!!!!....and I always knew you were a socialist. Do you bow to your picture of Obama every night and then say hail Obama?
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True, I don't think there is a free market anywhere in the world right now.. Failed because of too much government? I don't think you understand what has actually happened to create this recession.. Yes the market failed to do it's job, or worked improperly. People will always take advantage of markets, just look at Enron. If you think the world will be all rosy with a free market society, well, that explains quite a bit then.

Once extraneous / external associated costs are factored into a market system, then I don't think there will ever be a market that does not require government regulation.
 
ruffryder said:
True, I don't think there is a free market anywhere in the world right now.. Failed because of too much government? I don't think you understand what has actually happened to create this recession.. Yes the market failed to do it's job, or worked improperly. People will always take advantage of markets, just look at Enron. If you think the world will be all rosy with a free market society, well, that explains quite a bit then.

Once extraneous / external associated costs are factored into a market system, then I don't think there will ever be a market that does not require government regulation.
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No I didn't say the free market can't screw things up....but it works itself out. When government steps in and screws around with it....that is when the domino effect begins. They make it far worse than it would/could have been. We should not have bailled these banks out! We should have let them fail and better more efficient banks would arise. No we fu(ked ourselves.

I do understand what has happened to create this recession...it's many factors, but the biggest one is the banking industry. Yes, they have put us here...and I think you seem to forget Clinton greatly helped to loosen the requirements on loans to help put us in this situation....but nope its all Bush's fault according to you libbies since he was at the reigns. Its amazing people can't understand basic economics....something done 10 years ago effects us now!
 
mountain-powder-slut said:
No I didn't say the free market can't screw things up....but it works itself out. When government steps in and screws around with it....that is when the domino effect begins. They make it far worse than it would/could have been. We should not have bailled these banks out! We should have let them fail and better more efficient banks would arise. No we fu(ked ourselves.
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The banks weren't bailed out, they were given loans... You really think we would have been better off letting the financial system fail? How much of your money is not in hard currency? You ever think how much money in FDIC accounts the government would have been responsible for if a large percentage of banks failed? The loans to the finacial system go against your moral judgements, but this is a case of the end justifies the means...

mountain-powder-slut said:
and I think you seem to forget Clinton greatly helped to loosen the requirements on loans to help put us in this situation....but nope its all Bush's fault according to you libbies since he was at the reigns. Its amazing people can't understand basic economics....something done 10 years ago effects us now!
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I never said anything about Bush, what does he have to do with this? Oh, yah, the same thing Clinton does.... To help you figure this out, ask yourself why some banks survived and have prospered during this period and ask yourself what they did differently.... Their response is the opposite of the problem.
 
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I'm just saying, people talking lately about how great ron was. Truth betold he was not a great president. just better than what we had and what we have had since. But not great. Sure we saw prosperity after that for his policies but we also whored ourselves out in the process. Remember when gross domestic product was sold to everyone else and the european people were buying levis for $100 a pair back then. Look at what the tag on you shirt is wearing is made. The trade policies Reagan opened up fail to protect domestic companies. We import so much more than we used to, It's no wonder we had to send cash to china. Does this country make anything anymore?! You hear people complain that everytime they get on the phone with tech support the get some guy from India that they can't understand. The clothing they wear is made by some sweatshop in Indonesia. Jobs going to mexico, cars aren't built in this country anymore...so on and so forth. He may have taken responsibility for ending the cold war but the Iron curtain was on it's way down economicly already.

Again, He's a chump, not a white knight some portray him to be. He was flawed as were leaders before and after him. He was just a little bit better that them.
 
Wow, I got a few neg rep from this post.
Someone left, "Farmers don't deserve any special attention".

That's nice. Leaving it at that.
 
Spoken like the true Socialist you are!! "Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else" Swampy:eek::mad:



#19 Today, 08:28 AM
ruffryder
Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Fall City, WA
Posts: 3,454




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good to Go
The answer to the original problem is right in front of us..^^^^^

"Government isn't the solution, it's the problem". Once a sector gets used to the public tit, bad things happen.

Free market needs to reign....

Those words are part of the reason why I don't like Reagon... Oh, and free market reigns... I would hate to see what this world would look like with ONLY free markets... I think we would be right back to feudalism real quick! Do I think government is always the solution? No, but they do serve a roll to play, just as markets do too.



I would think this last couple of years would be proof that free markets do not always work as intended. The problems with free markets is what their purpose or overall goal is to do.. They are a minimizing function, minimizing cost. Only problem is that minimizing cost, has an associated cost that is felt by the society / the nation. Just look at the huge problem of trade in balance.....

Your argument forgets or minimizes the good things that government does for the people. I would rather have big government then big business, but honestly, I would rather have small government and lots of small businesses...
__________________
Fordman is my number 1 fan... Who is yours? Got groupie?
 
Fosgate said:
Wow, I got a few neg rep from this post.
Someone left, "Farmers don't deserve any special attention".

That's nice. Leaving it at that.
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I have to agree we disagree on this subject. Secondly i would not leave you any red over this, let alone not sign it. Third IMHO you feel wronged by Ronnie and what happend to the farmers. The funny thing is i lived in rural E.Montana when he was first elected, i didn't hear any negative talk from the farmers or ranchers in that area. They live the life, and take the good and the bad one day at a time. I just do not see how it could be any worse where you grew up. That is life. You seem to be looking past the positive things the man did for this country, and only seething about a personal vendetta. Just my .o2 good luck n good riding
 
The really great thing about Reagan was his positive attitude and he could make the country feel it too. This fellow we have now only has a positive attitude when it suits his political purposes of the minute. Most of the time it suits him to instill fear, especially in old people. I hate to say I told you so, but I did.
 
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