Riding out the Earthquake

[7perk]

Have you felt it ? Every time you ride that Polaris 900. Can you just image how that sled would be without the vibration and grabbing all those lost horses under the hood? Gaining the full performance of the crank without removing the crank from the motor case. (Patent Pending Process).
The Earthquake was caused by the unbalance in both ends of the crank assy. The uneven ditribution of mass. The clutch was spin balanced before and the run out of crank was only .0015 both ends. Dustin Wood's ID. 900 crank was brand new (beefed up factory crank with larger tapered clutch).

PTO Side - 170 grams of unbalance = 1500 pounds of centrifugal force basicly a 1500 lb bowling ball swinging around 125 times per second at 8000 rpm.

Mag Side - 145 grams of unbalance = 1200 pounds of centrifugal force basicly a 1200 lb. bowling ball swinging around 125 times per second at 8000 rpm. (Special Note: opposite angles on a two cylinder this causes the motor to do the jumping action that's very visible in the idle position on all snowmobiles).

Dustin's 900 before Balance Dustin's 900 after Patented Balance
1. 12 broken belts 1. No more broken belts
2. 2 broken cranks 2. Place bare hands on clutch after
several minutes of riding.
3. 300 to 600 increase of RPM in the
Idle position

We can do the same for your 900, 800, Polaris, Ski-Doo, Arctic Cat!!!
With this Patented Process & Product - Polaris could bring back the 900
& Ski-Doo the 1000 CC.

CALL TODAY FOR MORE INFORMATION!!!

SPECIAL OFFER - THE FIRST TWO 900'S WILL BE HALF PRICE !!!

PERKS SPIN BALANCE, LLC. 435-720-3162

GO TO YOUTUBE : # 1 Snowmobile Invention of our time - And see how smooth the 800 CC 2006 Ski-Doo runs. YOURS CAN BE THE SAME!!!

 

[byeatts]

Have you felt it ? Every time you ride that Polaris 900. Can you just image how that sled would be without the vibration and grabbing all those lost horses under the hood? Gaining the full performance of the crank without removing the crank from the motor case. (Patent Pending Process).
The Earthquake was caused by the unbalance in both ends of the crank assy. The uneven ditribution of mass. The clutch was spin balanced before and the run out of crank was only .0015 both ends. Dustin Wood's ID. 900 crank was brand new (beefed up factory crank with larger tapered clutch).

PTO Side - 170 grams of unbalance = 1500 pounds of centrifugal force basicly a 1500 lb bowling ball swinging around 125 times per second at 8000 rpm.

Mag Side - 145 grams of unbalance = 1200 pounds of centrifugal force basicly a 1200 lb. bowling ball swinging around 125 times per second at 8000 rpm. (Special Note: opposite angles on a two cylinder this causes the motor to do the jumping action that's very visible in the idle position on all snowmobiles).

Dustin's 900 before Balance Dustin's 900 after Patented Balance
1. 12 broken belts 1. No more broken belts
2. 2 broken cranks 2. Place bare hands on clutch after
several minutes of riding.
3. 300 to 600 increase of RPM in the
Idle position

We can do the same for your 900, 800, Polaris, Ski-Doo, Arctic Cat!!!
With this Patented Process & Product - Polaris could bring back the 900
& Ski-Doo the 1000 CC.

CALL TODAY FOR MORE INFORMATION!!!

SPECIAL OFFER - THE FIRST TWO 900'S WILL BE HALF PRICE !!!

PERKS SPIN BALANCE, LLC. 435-720-3162

GO TO YOUTUBE : # 1 Snowmobile Invention of our time - And see how smooth the 800 CC 2006 Ski-Doo runs. YOURS CAN BE THE SAME!!!

question. If I had cases with a dummy stock cylinder and a old set of pistons assembled,no head can you spin and balance bottom end. I will then be installing BB later?

 

[chunkysoup]

Still cant see how u balance a crank in the case. Looks like u balance clutches and flywheels but thats not balancing the entire motor... Care to explain?

 

[Z-Man]

Looks interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E3oeRpaZFY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc-Vp7c5g6A&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

 

[guidoxpress]

cant see it being possible...its not balancing the crankshaft, its only trueing the ends which is only a temp fix.

wish indydan could chime in on this one. if he say its possible, then ill believe it

 

[94fordguy]

I'm also trying to wrap my head around this.

I understand balancing the clutch, and I understand balancing/trueing a crank, but I don't understand how it can be done with the motor assembled.

 

[Danbot]

Sounds too good to be true, tell us more about your balancing process since the video's do not demonstrate very much outside clutch balancing which is not new to us.

 

[Z-Man]

Makes total sense to me. what he is doing is indexing the clutch and flywheel and then using them to balance the complete rotating assembly. No this will not fix a bent crank. he isn't truing anything, he is balancing the whole rotating assembly as a unit which is the best way. The TM3 does this same thing using billet ends but for quite a bit more money.

I called him up and talked to him about what he is doing and If I could figure a way to get my sled up to him I feel pretty confident that this will work. Unfortunately I am out of town till August but I plan on taking it up to him when I can and I will be posting feedback.

 

[chunkysoup]

I see what ur saying! So is he just adding or removing weight on the clutch and flywheel where the balance would be off? Like balancing a tire? That would make a lot more sense but if u remove ur clutch then u throw the balance off all over again.

I dont think this is why people are blowing belts. I see it is an issue but ur clutching and alignment is what is going to cause ur biggest problem.

 

[indydan]

At a Glance

As stated, Dual Plane balancing. And this in fact is exactly that.

But talk about stretching things a little.

The claims are almost to a point of...........This fixes everything thats wrong with your sled or ATV.

Heres a quick break down. what is claimed in the you tube video in some cases can in fact be true.

What is not explained in the you tube video is that this process really only makes good sense if you do it to a motor that has a as close to perfectly straight crankshaft, and hopefully perfect fit crankcases.

If you were to do this to a motor that had a crankshaft that was .008 out on the PTO and .004 on the MAG you would in fact feel a great improvement by what is done here.

The problem I see with this is if the crankshaft is not perfect before you start you are balancing to the wobble. ( a crankshaft that is perfectly straight and then balanced as close as possible ) Once knocked out of tru will not longer be balanced because its own weight and the clutch and flywheel weight will make it shake and dual plane balancers sense shake or wobble.

The main problem with 800cc and above motors is a lack of mass, This is why I have long recommended running a electric start ring gear on the polaris 800/900 BB problem is the gear has gotten lighter over the years.

And the claim to fix belt problems on every sled is just plain false.

99% of the major belt problems caused today are due to 1 new option ( Push button reverse ) You heard me.......... Whos has lots of belt problems and crank problems ??? Ski Doo & Polaris.

As far as Polaris is concerned their #1 problem in my opinion is the The TEAM driven clutch. Hands down the #1 reason the TEAM driven.

Heres a bold statement..........The dume of the 900 Polaris Motor was the TEAM clutch not the crankshaft............the crankshaft problems are causes by the driven clutch period.

If you were to install an old Button driven on a 900 you couldn't break the stock crankshaft. The jackshaft is splinded so that in itself cause a problem to test this foir yourself. Push button reverse is so popular almost no one will give it up.

And the crank bearing claim is completely nuts.............if in fact all the crankshaft & crankcases were within factory specs this balancing would not effect bearing life one way or the other.

It should be stated that your crankshaft PTO & MAG end runout should be as close to zero as possible before this proceedure is performed.

And if in fact you were to have your motor balanced in this manner, IF you were to blow a belt at wide open throttle and tweaked the crank in any area this balance job goes out the window.

If the crank was .008 out when you had it engine balanced and blowing the belt straighten it to perfect zero the complete engine balance would need to be redone because it would shake just as bad as it would have had it gone from .0000 to .008 after a belt break.

If you have a Polaris 900 and the crank is out .015 thou and you have been driving it like this for some time and take it apart and straighten it chances are its going to break because it has been stressed to a point of weakness............ all the balancing in the world can't make it strong again. ( Need I say TEAM Driven ) #1 cause of crank failure in the 900 Mlotor.

Remember - OXY clean gets out EVERY Stain, and easy-outs remove every broken bolt.

I could go on for hours about this.

Dan

 

[chunkysoup]

Good Info Dan! Can u explain y the team driven is so bad? Im not sure if u answered that. just curious. thanks

 

[Z-Man]

I see what ur saying! So is he just adding or removing weight on the clutch and flywheel where the balance would be off? Like balancing a tire? That would make a lot more sense but if u remove ur clutch then u throw the balance off all over again.

I dont think this is why people are blowing belts. I see it is an issue but ur clutching and alignment is what is going to cause ur biggest problem.

Not sure this is the issue with belts either but the bad vibration definitely does not help. I have to agree with Dan that the clutch set-up is the main cause.

Yes, the balance is similar to balancing a tire on two planes. The clutch is indexed afterward and if you have to remove it you would have to turn the engine to the proper spot before reinstalling it or your balance would be off.

If your crank is already bent than you are not going to be able to balance it and have a perfect crank without getting a new crank, but just like a tire you can balance out an out of round tire and make an improvement.

The other thing he is doing it just exactly what IndyDan is recommending, Adding weight to the clutch and flywheel to help balance the engine. Think of the engine in your car or truck, you have a flywheel on one side of the engine that is balanced to the crank and a harmonic balancer on the other side.

If you were building a motor for a race car you would do the same thing and balance the entire crank assembly as a unit including the flywheel and harmonic balancer, which is exactly what he is doing.

I think it's worth trying, If I can get another year out of my sled doing this while I save up for a TM3 than it will be worth it.

 

[Z-Man]

Good Info Dan! Can u explain y the team driven is so bad? Im not sure if u answered that. just curious. thanks

Clutch set-up and motor-mounts on the 900 caused it to blow belts. When it blows the belt it can bend the crank. Every time this happens it throws the balance out and causes additional stress to the crank as the imbalance beats on the crank and the bearings 8000 times a minute with several hundred pounds of force.

 

[indydan]

Good Info Dan! Can u explain y the team driven is so bad? Im not sure if u answered that. just curious. thanks

A few years back I started a thread and talked at length about this.

The Team Helix diameter being as big as it is needs to be very steep
to operate, the old 98 & 04 series also then need alot of spring. ( in most cases the finish number is to flat & the driven is working to hard against the drive ) anything under 42 to 44 degrees ( should really be up in the 48 to 50 degree area ) in the 98 or 04 depending on gears of course. ( Death move ) is Big weights and helixs that are to flat........I don't care if it seemed to work better or in fact did work better and you beat your buddy........... in every factory 900 built the drive weights were to heavy, and the finish number was to flat for the gears that were in the chain case
( this is considering a ver light rider ) big rider bigger problems. The TEAM clutch is to slippery to make people happy when it has light weights and steep helixes the driven spring becomes very important and the rollers make them hard to tune. I think it might just be possible to make it an OK clutch with slider pucks.

There are many problem with the 98 & 04, This summer I am going to try and figure the problem out. I am pretty sure the only way to make the TEAM work with a big motor is to remove the rollers and go back to a slide type puck.

If you listen to TEAM 's suggestions on the new Tied clutch it breaks belt just as bad as the old clutches.

The clutch needs a little resisitance to hump-up against so to speak. I don't know if you have ever heard a tuner say its acting to slippery.

I.E. the old Cat driven when they went to a roller cover.

Dan

 

[05900]

And there you have it !!!!!!!

 

[7perk]

Live clutch balancing

Live demonstration to prove that on Ski Doo primary clutch the runout does cause or is the major cause of unbalance in the clutch only. And yes it has an effect on the crank unbalance. In this youtube live demonstration the crank on this Ski Doo was under .001 on both sides. Polaris and Arctic Cat clutches have little runout they run pretty true. This proves the runout on the crank is NOT the major reason for the vibration and unbalance in the two stroke and four stroke motors. It comes down to uneven distribution of mass because the pistons and crank assy are not a round part spinning around therefore they should be Dynamic Spin balanced. And this is why those belts are breaking, because this swiping action and heat caused by the clutch and crank jumping around. The very first response from my customers is that the belt now has even wear all the way around and it grabs faster and harder when they hit the throttle after the total engine balance job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5Zvo_-HLew
Part 2 correct crank run-out
http://youtu.be/frp35L6uXtA

 

[diamonddave]

Live demonstration to prove that on Ski Doo primary clutch the runout does cause or is the major cause of unbalance in the clutch only. And yes it has an effect on the crank unbalance. In this youtube live demonstration the crank on this Ski Doo was under .001 on both sides. Polaris and Arctic Cat clutches have little runout they run pretty true. This proves the runout on the crank is NOT the major reason for the vibration and unbalance in the two stroke and four stroke motors. It comes down to uneven distribution of mass because the pistons and crank assy are not a round part spinning around therefore they should be Dynamic Spin balanced. And this is why those belts are breaking, because this swiping action and heat caused by the clutch and crank jumping around. The very first response from my customers is that the belt now has even wear all the way around and it grabs faster and harder when they hit the throttle after the total engine balance job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5Zvo_-HLew
Part 2 correct crank run-out
http://youtu.be/frp35L6uXtA

I can promise you that the TRA chucked up there in the video has some EXTREME sliding sheeve bushing wear. Normal. I'll bet with new bushings in that clutch your 0.025" wobble would have been alot less.

 

[indydan]

I can promise you that the TRA chucked up there in the video has some EXTREME sliding sheeve bushing wear. Normal. I'll bet with new bushings in that clutch your 0.025" wobble would have been alot less.

Now that makes perfect sense. I am not a Doo guy but I was having a tuff time believing that a new clutch from Doo could come like that.

A Polaris clutch with bad bushing does the same thing thats why over 50% of the clutch that come here for balancing leave with new bushings.

 

[05900]

I hope the bushings got replaced before he sent it back!
Figured that was part of routine maintenence?

 

[victorsledneck]

So IndyDan, did you get a chance to work on the Team clutch this past summer like you said you wanted to?