Riders in denial...

[J.Jensen]

I just bought my first sled and when I talk to folks that ride in my area none of them got beacons. They just stare blank at me like I'm an idiot when I ask why not.

Its not flatland trail area and these guys ride in areas prone to avy's. Even a guy like me with limited avy training can see these slopes can slide.

How do I try to get the point across to this kind of riders without calling them suicidal fookin retards?

Thanks for any advice...

 

[AdrenalineAddict]

If they're under 30 years old they simply think they are bulletproof. They might be quite intelligent but testosterone can get in the way of what many would call common sense train of thought, some live through it some don't. If they're over 30 the retard card is probably the best one to play. Good Luck!!

 

[J.Jensen]

if you choose to ride in a avy prone area and plan on a beacon saving your bacon after being slammed by a avy is kinda retarded too.jmo.

I plan to never ever have to be found, by beacon, probe or the darn snow melting for summer.
I won't go up into the mountain without potentially life saving equipment. Shovel, food, spare clothes etc. Doesn't matter if I'm out sledding, skiing, hunting etc I bring what could be useful after the **** hits the fan.

I know people that have set off slides skiing in places they never imagined possible. The same thing is pretty sure possible on a snowmobile, so why would people choose to not spend a couple fuel tanks worth of equipment that might save a buddys or your own life???

And what I meant by avy prone area is anywhere slopes with lot of snow on it. Isn't that why we have long tracks tall liga and big engines? Risk in mountain rising can only be totally avoided by staying home.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

you cant force others to gear up..but you can protect yourself, get training, get a beacon, probe and shovel..that way you have the training to protect yourself from getting into an avy hopefully, you have the gear to help others in the riding area if they get in trouble and finally..buy your self an avy pack..it is solely a last ditch effort to protect yourself just in case...then..give those you ride with chit every time you ride about getting gear and training..and constantly look for new guys to ride with that do have the gear.....

 

[theultrarider]

I will add, check your batteries often, and carry a spare set in your truck. We got to the trailhead earlier this week. The avy conditions were horrible. I turned my beacon on and did the same for my buddies. Then I went and hid one to make sure he could find it. (He was borrowing one of mine) Well, the batteries were very low in one, and dead on the other. Fortunately I did have one set of new batteries in a flashlight that took care of the dead one. But that was all that I could come up with. Needless to say, I was very concerned all day. And to think, just a couple of years ago, I never rode with a beacon at all! Your family deserves to have timely closure should the worst happen on the mountain. I can not imagine waiting months to find someone I care for once the snow melts. That is the bottom line in my mind for wearing a beacon these days. It may or may not save me. I pray that I am smart enough to never end up burried. The thought of having a freind burried knowing they ARE wearing a beacon and I am not is something that I could never forgive my self for. Lay the guilt trip on your buds, it works. Atleast it did for me.

 

[Tonysnoo]

you cant force others to gear up..but you can protect yourself, get training, get a beacon, probe and shovel..that way you have the training to protect yourself from getting into an avy hopefully, you have the gear to help others in the riding area if they get in trouble and finally..buy your self an avy pack..it is solely a last ditch effort to protect yourself just in case...then..give those you ride with chit every time you ride about getting gear and training..and constantly look for new guys to ride with that do have the gear.....

Right on!. When we ride in avy possible areas, I make sure the folks riding with me have gear or I loan them some of my extras/spares......while telling them: they can't ride with me in this area, if they don't wear a beacon and have the stuff and knowhow to find ME! You cant teach em everything(heck, I don't know all it either), but I show them how to use the equipment I loan them.

PS: I quit being bullet proof about 12 years back, now I'm a nag......LOL

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Right on!. When we ride in avy possible areas, I make sure the folks riding with me have gear or I loan them some of my extras/spares......while telling them: they can't ride with me in this area, if they don't wear a beacon and have the stuff and knowhow to find ME! You cant teach em everything(heck, I don't know all it either), but I show them how to use the equipment I loan them.

PS: I quit being bullet proof about 12 years back, now I'm a nag......LOL

I am a nag as well..especially before I take anyone to my cabin north of eureka..just to remote to do stupid things, and while things can happen you can also minimize the risk by being smart..our big issue out there is someone getting hurt, in the best of conditions you lay there for at least 4 hrs..and normal is 6-8 hrs for a chopper ride..same deal with broke machines..everyone in the group has to put their stuff at risk to get a broken sled out..so we try to make sure we are being carefull..

 

[J.Jensen]

Thanks for all the replies.

I'll definately gear up for myself. Luckily, the friend I'm going to ride most with shares my view on the subject, but haven't invested in a beacon yet as nobody else have one. One down a lot to go

 

[EagleRiverDee]

Thanks for all the replies.

I'll definately gear up for myself. Luckily, the friend I'm going to ride most with shares my view on the subject, but haven't invested in a beacon yet as nobody else have one. One down a lot to go

Well, you might point out to your friend that you having a beacon doesn't do you much good if he doesn't. You can't find him, he can't find you.

I have friends that in the summer will refuse to ride ATV's with someone who doesn't wear a helmet (all to common, sadly) and in the winter they won't ride snowmobiles with someone who won't wear a beacon (unless it's flat land riding). Sometimes peer pressure is the only thing that works. People shouldn't have to die before others will buy the gear, but all too often that's the catalyst.

 

[B00nd0ck3r4lif]

Some of the places I ride you can get away without a beacon because it is only rolling hills and tree riding, but if I go to avalanche country most people (me being one of them) simply refuse to ride with you if you don't have a beacon.

If I were you I would get your partner into getting a beacon, then when others want to join your group tell them the same. Hopefully you can spread the mindset that beacons are not optional equipment.

 

[northbend2004]

A working transceiver makes for a faster, safer search and recovery of your body so that your family can re-bury you in the valley.

I wear mine even when riding alone for that very reason.

 

[Tec]

I just flat out won't ride with people that don't have avy gear, I do have 2 beacons, but what the hell good is it? If the person you lend it to has 5 minutes of experience?

 

[whtmboy]

It is so flustrating. I have 4 beacons to lend out to three of my buddies. I told them this year I am selling the extra beacons and won't be riding with them unless they get their own and pull their heads out... We are all over 40. I don't know what else to do either. Oh well.

 

[Taminator]

We are always riding in high avy danger areas, that's just how it is. There isn't a chance we'd ride with anyone without the gear and more importantly knowledge of how to use it. It's very common out here for peeps not to ride with you if you aren't properly geared up and trained. Your life depends on their training to save you, just having the gear is not enough.

Since taking the AST 1 avy course, I realize the importance of knowing how to conduct a proper search and recovery. I also saw first hand how quickly you can find 4 beacons and save 4 lives when you know how to not only use your beacon, but conduct the entire search calmly and knowledgably. There is NOT a hope of saving anyone that isn't wearning a beacon, you are searching for a body at that point. Why not give your buddies a chance of saving your life and why would you not want to be able to save a life? How could you live with yourself knowing another person could be alive had you spent a day learning how to use your avy equipment? There's more to it than an on/off button.

Not only is it important to know your gear and how to implement a search but also to read the conditions/weather/snowpack and know the areas you should avoid. Knowledge of the snowpack can't be stressed enough, and as it's constantly changing (often throughout the day) knowing how to adapt to this is very important for backcountry travel.

We aren't riding with anyone without the gear and the AST 1 training that teaches you how to use it and how to factor in the weather and snow conditions before you ride.

 

[mastertech]

I have been riding for along time. And I plan on riding for alot longer. I dont care who you are or where you are, a becon is a must. I refuse to ride with anyone that doesnt have one. And if they have one, they better know how to use it. It's a must for deep pow riding..

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Lesson Learned

3 years ago when I got back into sledding I got the sled but hadn't got the beacon (forgot). Went riding and still being cautious asking experienced friends if some hills where safe or not, thinking they new the area and would know, they lead me right to one that wasn't very steep but broke above me as I was coming down it caught me and some random flock of angles must have been there as I went full bore down and shot out the bottom of the hill over 90mph and air born from a small ditch. I still don't know how I pulled it off only glad I did, going back over it many times in my head,: when the snow caught me it packed into the track and almost stalled the sled as I hit the throttle, luckily it cleaned out and took off, the whole way down it was like looking through a 1' hole as the snow was all around me and a few seconds of being blind. I knew there where some small ditches at the bottom and luckily just saw them to prepare for going air born. I also knew I had to clear the ditches because its right where the snow piled up. After I calmed down I went and road over the slide and realized how hard fresh snow will pack down in a slide(concrete), thats when I got the mental image of that snow being packed in my face, up the nose, in your eyes, ears and not being able to move at all, and waiting to die, I wanted nothing to do with it. Put that mental picture in any reasonable persons head and they will start to think. I have never road without a beacon since and will not ride with anyone that doesn't have one. If it where my riding buddies I would buy extras make sure they know how to use them and make them wear them, or find new riding buddies. I also ride with people that think first not look back after the fact and say maybe that wasnt' the smartest thing to do.

 

[zacs]

Mountain experience does not equal avalanche experience

I just bought my first sled and when I talk to folks that ride in my area none of them got beacons. They just stare blank at me like I'm an idiot when I ask why not.

Its not flatland trail area and these guys ride in areas prone to avy's. Even a guy like me with limited avy training can see these slopes can slide.

How do I try to get the point across to this kind of riders without calling them suicidal fookin retards?

Thanks for any advice...

Hope you are having some luck influencing the riders around you to take avy hazards seriously. Big shifts are happening in the sled world. Peer pressure is moving to the side of safety. It may not take too long before untrained and unequipped riders are the minority. (How's that for optimism!)

Mountain Experience does not equal Avalanche Experience - Zac's newsletter

Read the article at the link above.
Perhaps this is another point that you could stress...being avy savvy isn't about being prepped for the typical riding day.

Typically we all come home no matter what gear or skills we have.

Avy savvy is about recognizing the UNUSUAL.
Without training, riders often miss huge signals even when the snow, the weather and the terrain are screaming at us.

Would it be rational to drive on a busy city freeway covered in freezing rain the same way we would drive on a quiet interstate highway on a blue sky summer evening?
It seems so obvious but unfortunately many riders aren't changing their approach to match the current conditions.

==============================

This summer Zac's is working with the Alaska Avalanche Centre, the American Avalanche Association, AIARE and other instructors to improve and standardize snowmobile specific avalanche training in North America.

Better materials ==> better programs ==> better appeal ==> better attendance

If anyone has great stories, photos or video clips of close calls, snowpack, weather or terrain observations that they wouldn't mind sharing with our group it would help us build better materials. Thanks!

EMAIL Zac's Tracs

 

[Clarke673]

you cant force others to gear up..but you can protect yourself, get training, get a beacon, probe and shovel..that way you have the training to protect yourself from getting into an avy hopefully, you have the gear to help others in the riding area if they get in trouble and finally..buy your self an avy pack..it is solely a last ditch effort to protect yourself just in case...then..give those you ride with chit every time you ride about getting gear and training..and constantly look for new guys to ride with that do have the gear.....

there is no point in gearing up with a beacon if no one else has one....So yes you do need to force them to get beacons. I wish i could afford $1000 for a bag pack but from what i have seen they still aren't a 100% tool twords survival. The best thing you can do is ride with people who aren't idiots.

 

[SledsWest]

Beacons are for finding bodies. If you want to stay alive, get an avy pack.

Like Tec, I don't ride with people if they don't have the avy gear and or know how to use it. I want them digging me out as fast as possible.....if they can't do that, I don't take them.

 

[Tec]

there is no point in gearing up with a beacon if no one else has one....So yes you do need to force them to get beacons. I wish i could afford $1000 for a bag pack but from what i have seen they still aren't a 100% tool twords survival. The best thing you can do is ride with people who aren't idiots.

I'm sure you can afford an airbag after reading your Sig!