Ride like a PRO?

[suitcase]

LMAO, ours out grew the crappy pants. He rides with me now.

 

[oregonfarmer]

Suitcase you should hold your own ridng clinic. It would be called how to get from point a to point b the hardest way possible! I still learn new routes from you and keating valley after 20 years of riding the same woods.

 

[aebsledder]

good thread

Good thread, it brought out some comments on some items I have been wondering about for a while. As far as the ads go...I can see how any clinic would use a catch phrase or marketing "scheme" involving words like "extreme", "pro", etc. To the general public it would indicate a progression of your skillset as a sledder into something different (better?) than you are at now. I guess most importantly, snowmobiling (or any hobby) should be fun. Why the hell would you do it if it were other wise? Personally, I can relate to some of the other comments above regarding getting better. I started about 4 years ago, and since then have tried to get better every time I go. For me, the only way to do that was to get outside my comfort zone every time I went. I can remember falling off my sled about 100 times a trip before I learned how to do a powder turn. My dad always use to tell me "if you're not falling, you're not trying." I think the clinics allow you to get outside your comfort zone, with the added benefit of someone watching you and saying "Hey, try this next time". If I had the extra coin, I would probably go for sure. But, I can definitely see how it wouldn't be for everybody.

 

[suitcase]

A persons comfort zone is a nice place, I think there are many riders that dont like to get out of it. I think it is split between the ones that will get out of it vs. the onew that like to stay in it. Me personaly I like being out of it, I have way more fun there. Like stated before I sure these clinics are good tools for some, Just think they should play it diffrent.
aebsledder, good post.

 

[suitcase]

Suitcase you should hold your own ridng clinic. It would be called how to get from point a to point b the hardest way possible! I still learn new routes from you and keating valley after 20 years of riding the same woods.

SHHHHHH we ride trails only!!!

 

[Jorli]

I thought I had seen it all 5 years ago, then I met Chris Burandt and he pulled lines I had ridden by my entire life and had never taken a second look at. Now guys like KJ, Treadway, Cory Micku and Brad Gilmore are doing things that will make your jaws drop. There is huge benefit to ridding with guys like this, they'll expand your horizon in ways that most people would never have thought to be possible. There are so many unique facets to freeriding and the more experience you can gain from elite caliber riders, the faster you will improve. You'll be forced into environments that are beyond your comfort level and when you succeed, that confidence will elevate your riding to the next level. As long as you have a good attitude and aren't trying to compete against your instructors, you'll find tremendous benefit for investing in yourself and your experience.

I think "we" as service providers need to do a better job communicating the importance of investing in yourselves, it makes little sense to spend money on this sport and all the aftermarket products if you can't use any of it to their potential.

I think most people would really enjoy learning from the sport's elite. How many of these opportunities exist in other sports? Not too many, its pretty unique to snowmobiling.

http://www.snowrideadventures.com/

 

[Bagger]

O.K I have seen these ads for awhile now and IMO they are inconsiderate to less aggressive riders. Is this what snowmobiling has come to? I don't intend to have any names of mags. that use these advertisments or who is doing the advertising, not a concern. This is what is, This is the quote that caught my eye, (Let Blank help you look, Ride and Feel like a Pro) Why are they using this approach for some of these riding clinics to get you to come spend money to have (said person) give you tips? It comes across to some that you have to go to these clinics to be able to ride this way. IMO instead of making it seem, that you may ride like a "tard", if you have not gone to a clinic, or don't enroll in one, and if you want to ride like a movie star you need to enroll in my clinic. I would think there would be a better approach to getting people to come to these clinics, If a person thinks they need help from someone to improve there riding. Other than, come with me I can make you ride like a pro, ( IMO saying you can't if you don't ride a clinic).
I am in no way saying that these riders putting on clinics are not top of the line riders, but one should not forget that we all started some where and had to learn. Surely there could be a better approach to customers than, more or less a put down.

Suit, I find this intresting, and I also find it interesting that this isn't the first thread with this theme that you have heavily contributed to. I honestly don't see this pushing our sport to some nasty brink or in a dangerous direction. The last anti-clinic thread you were in didn't make any big claims, didn't compare anyone to a movie star or pro, just said come ride and learn the basics and how to apply them you your riding style, and you didn't like that either.
Maybe you just don't like clinics, which is fine, but why all the fuss? It sounds to me like you are respected and considered a great rider, does it matter how someone else learns?
Please fill me in, cause I have taken two clinics and learned more in each one than in 5 years of following my buddies around, so I view them as a good thing. Especially ones that focus on setting good habits, building fundimentals and then expanding riding skills. I primarily ride with my Wife as a partner, and I can tell you that we are much more confidant and willing to get farther out there and enjoy the sport more now that we have some skills to keep it from being a day long stuck fest! I see this as good for our sport, if we can get more people interested at an entry level, and then help them progress into riders as skilled as you, then we have made our sport stronger and bigger and that is a good thing. We need to grow! (just not in our secret riding areas!)
Anyway, if I'm missing something here, please help me understand, you seem passionate about this, I guess I am just looking at it from a differant viewpoint.

Bag

 

[suitcase]

No I would not say that I am down on them really.
My quoute:
(I am looking at it from a person that might be thinking about attending one. I believe that the less aggresive rider is a little shy when looking at these ads. Maybe a better tool to promote said clinic, to the less aggresive rider. Don't get me wrong Im sure these clinic holders are very instructive to the people that attend, and becomes a very usefull tool to those who do attend. )

In my way of seeing these ads, I think they could go about it a little diffrent.
I by know means have the attitude that I could not learn form said clinic holder, I learn everyday Im out wheather it is from my 12 yr. old son or a 60 yr. old vetrain rider. I just feel the promotion is a little off.

Thanks everyone for such a geat conversation on this topic.

Just for a refrence In my younger days I tought backcountry skiing to may diffrent types of skiers, so Im not a stranger to this type of thing.

 

[Dartos]

Do you guys find this to be offensive?

The only thing I found offensive is that I didn't watch it in HD!! Still not going to catch me cliff dropping though.

 

[Dartos]

i'd say spend the money on gas and practice. if your that bad of a rider you need a clinic to improve your riding skills your probably not ever gonna be that great of a rider anyway...

If you have poor technique and practice, you will reinforce poor technique.

So some people excel through trial and error and others excel with instruction.

 

[mikew5945]

my classes are only $19.95 or buy my gas

The wife just did the winter budget.....I'm screwed.

I may be looking at your class. Need more info.

Is lunch supplied?

 

[Jorli]

I also find it offensive you didn't watch it in HD! haha!

The only thing I found offensive is that I didn't watch it in HD!! Still not going to catch me cliff dropping though.

 

[mountainhorse]

Suitcase,

I have taken a look at this from all angles (that I know how to) and looked up the ads in question before posting my reply to try to be as fair as I know how.

I respect your opinion... here is mine.

The only ad that I'm seeing is the FULL page ad in the Sledheads magazine (page 20 of the October issue and page 20 of the November issue AND page 45 of SnoWest mag).

This is a Promotion for a subscription drive for the magazine that has gear from HMK and RSI as well as a clinic with Dan Adams. This is where it says "Let SLEDHEADS help you look, ride and feel like a pro"... cheezy, yes.. but it is a SUBSCRIPTION PROMOTION.

I did not see an ad from a clinic in the mag, but I may be overlooking it (if I am, give me a page).

I've been with Dan on two clinics and I'll be doing another this year.... Just like a golf pro can help you with your swing better/faster than you can by practicing bad technique... or a good college coach can help his player get to a better level of play by helping you pull the most out of your game... The clinics that focus primarily on Coaching you to a better, personal level ARE, IMHO, a great asset that will have you stepping up your game and are targeted at the people that need help.

Dan's clinics are structured clinics where he listens to what you want to do, evaluates where you are with your riding and makes it the "task at hand" to work with you on specific drills Coached practice sections to help you learn new techniques and drop bad habits. His clinics are NOT a "ride along and try not to get stuck" session behind an Elite level rider offering a few "tips" when you are hopelessly buried on the mountain... been there, done that.... that just made me feel bad... Did I learn something... you bet... but it was more painful than it needed to be.

I've taken that test on the Next LVL website.. and if you are truly honest... most people that consider themselves advanced would not make the cut...I didn't, but then again ... a lot more people than CB or Rasmussen "school" me on a regular basis.

Dan and His wife Irena (who writes the fitness articles at the end of the mag inside the back cover)... are dedicated to what they do... taking anyone's riding to the next level... whether that is getting someone to sidehill for the first time or navigating their way through a tree-riddled steep section up OR down.

I AM the guy that wants/needs to ride better... I've been schooled by "PRO's" and by just plain great riders... When I pay someone for their time.. I know that I'm getting just that with the pure clinics out there... the "riding experiences" for me were great too... but I did not learn half as much as when the SOLE purpose of the coach/instructor was to help me shed bad habits and learn some new good ones.

For those ultra-advanced riders that do not need help and already feel like they are a "PRO" ... then I guess that I could see your point here... you take offense to someone telling you that another "PRO" rides better than you do and "who the he!! are they" to tell you that you need somebody to help you ride better. IMO, I have never seen any pro athlete from Michael Jordan to Michael Schumacher to Ryan Villopoto that did not benefit from coaching.






.

 

[suitcase]

No I would not say that I am down on them really.
My quoute:
(I am looking at it from a person that might be thinking about attending one. I believe that the less aggressive rider is a little shy when looking at these ads. Maybe a better tool to promote said clinic, to the less aggressive rider. Don't get me wrong Im sure these clinic holders are very instructive to the people that attend, and becomes a very useful tool to those who do attend. )

In my way of seeing these ads, I think they could go about it a little different.
I by know means have the attitude that I could not learn form said clinic holder, I learn everyday Im out wheather it is from my 12 yr. old son or a 60 yr. old veteran rider. I just feel the promotion is a little off.

Thanks everyone for such a geat conversation on this topic.

Just for a refrence In my younger days I tought backcountry skiing to may different types of skiers, so Im not a stranger to this type of thing.

Is is what My point is nothing more. that ad is similar, but they still have to endorse the ad, and it comes across badly to less aggressive riders.

 

[mountainhorse]

I am a less advanced rider... I didn't take it the wrong way... just as a promotional ad.

I see where you are coming from and can agree to disagree.

I hope to come ride with you guys this winter... Rob and Jack can certainly show me a thing or two and hopefully I can learn from you as well.

 

[suitcase]

Well heck we are all less aggressive riders when you are talking about the Adams and the Burants of the sport. It would be tons of fun to meet up with you and ride with those guys over there.

I did not entend for this thread to be negative, IMO it has gone well. Very mature thoughts on my Opinion.

P.S. I would not have any other thoughts that these said people doing the clinics are very good to work with in that setting, they would have to be or it would not work for them. IMO it takes a sertain type of person to teach. There for would have to be great people to do this type of job.

 

[Skadi]

hmmm, curious to throw this out there... suitcase, if your point is that they are advertising POORLY and missing a user group then I would say you just need to look at how busy these instructors are! I think most of them book up fairly well and even less aggressive riders sign up for these classes because they are just that. (well the class type rides... Burandt does not claim to do a class type ride; he does a 'can you hang' type ride and that IS marketed differently)

So in a way I guess if I've interpreted your point correctly I would have to disagree as it seems to me like these instructors are often quite booked throughout the winter months!!

but maybe i read your post wrong...

all great points...

 

[joshkoltes]

pro

Isn't it the same idea as a hunting guide? You pay money to have a guide put you on the game instead of having to search for it. You will spend the same amount of money trying to find what your looking for. So paying a guide to bring you to the climb and not just searching blind all day, no brainer for a person only coming up once a year.

 

[Ske-Bum]

If you have poor technique and practice, you will reinforce poor technique.

So some people excel through trial and error and others excel with instruction.

Learning the proper technique when you are first learning anything is key, it is called the law of primacy. So if you learn the wrong thing first you have to unlearn the wrong thing or technique and then learn the proper thing or technique. Huge pain is the a$$, and a time waster. I am an expert snow skier, but I have come to sledding later in life then most people. So when someone I respect gives me advice I listen, when it comes to sledding technique. Now I don't know if I will ever go and take a clinic from anyone, but it is nice to know that option is out there, just like there are ski lessons for people who want to learn to ski well.

The only thing I will say that some people are over looking is the amount of time involved, to learn how to do something well. I know how long it took me to become a really good skier, many, many days on the mountain. I'm sure it will take me just as long to become good on a sled. The only difference between now and then, I'm lacking time. Kids, dogs, a real job, and a wife tend to cut into my fun time, so if something can cut down my learning curve I'm all for it. I look at this as nothing different then ski lesson really.

 

[xpspenziv]

I don't know why the ads saying, "Ride like a Pro" should be a shock to anyone. I won't imagine an ad saying something like ""Ride like a spaz" would bring the people in.

Whats wrong with riding like a spaz??? I'll bet a SPAZ has just as much fun or more up on the hill as YOU.