Quick Drive Bolts

[mountainhorse]

"Preload" in a fastener can be hard to wrap your head around.

TIf a longer bolt on the 16 allows it to flex more or stretch more, this is not good either. I can't see how it will fix it but I hope I am wrong.

Preload in a bolt can be difficult to understand... It took me a long time and a few goes at it.

A connecting rod in say, a modern high performace V8... the connecting rod bolts are not just torqued but measured for stretch/preload values.

Lower hp con rods simply have a bolt and threaded bore design... high hp applications will have a longer through bolt... The presentation that I was given by an engineer at Carillo (and also ARP) was that the longer length allowed better preload factors to be built in.

The clamping of sprocket to the shaft/bearing-race will not even come close to that of a demanding con-rod cap...but the engineering is still there.

Here is a good, easy to understand presentation from ARP:

It is a fundamental engineering concept that the force in a bolt in an ideal preloaded joint will remain equal to the preload until the externally applied force exceeds the preload. Then the force in the bolt will be equal to the external force. This means that fluctuating external forces will not cause fluctuating forces in a preloaded bolt as long as the preload exceeds the external force. The result is that fatigue failure will not occur.

A broken bolt will not work to keep the drive together... one that will bear the cyclic additive forces of the assembly, in use, WILL keep the assembly together.

The proof will be in the riding, this season, in the consumers hands.

At least the engineering behind the change is solid

 

[herzy30]

Anyone have the torque specs??

Here is the torque spec I got from the Polaris instructions with my spare quick drive belt. Both upper and lower bolts are to be torqued to 44 ft lbs.

 

[ZRP Engineering]

At least the engineering behind the change is solid

When you combine a 10.9 Grade bolt with the longer length bolts on the 2016, I'm so confident that the joint will live that I offer a replacement guarantee on all the Replacement bolts I sell for the QuickDrive system. If one of my bolts breaks I'll refund your order cost including shipping.

 

[Devilmanak]

Interesting about spline tolerances.
EVERY new Pro I have parted, I have wondered why it was so easy to slide the sprocket assemblies off the shafts. Sloppy tolerances explains that.

 

[Teth-Air]

Interesting about spline tolerances.
EVERY new Pro I have parted, I have wondered why it was so easy to slide the sprocket assemblies off the shafts. Sloppy tolerances explains that.

If the splines are sloppy, no bolt can stop the pulley from rotating back and forth on the shaft. This movement will result in wear between the moving parts and the bolt will get loose. Now with the bolt loose the pulley will not only rotate on the shaft but will also wobble and stress the bolt until the head pops off.

 

[mountainhorse]

I guess we'll see how it plays out here for 2016 and if failures of bolts become common place.

Impacts will cause problems I'm sure... but hopefully the bolt fails first before the shaft or sprocket is bent. That Drive sprocket is hanging out there pretty low below the line of the belly-pan.

Interesting about spline tolerances.
EVERY new Pro I have parted, I have wondered why it was so easy to slide the sprocket assemblies off the shafts. Sloppy tolerances explains that.

That fit is intentional.... not a QC deficit.

I believe that the Polaris drive spec is an SAE Class-6 fit. (Class 4 is the tightest "interference fit" ...Class-7 the most open)

The only way to eliminate "any" rocking or looser fit would be to have a press fit assembly... In the field, that would make for a pretty difficult removal/assembly.

The fit is the way it is so we, as consumers, can change the belt in the field... even with guide-tools.

The aftermarket drives use a tensioner... the sprockets can even be installed and then the belt, followed by proper tension/preload on the belt.
This would allow for a tighter Class-5 fit on the splines for these aftermarket sprockets on the shafts. You can leave the sprockets on and change the belts.

If the QC were not there on the factory cut splines... you would find that these aftermarket sprockets would fit on some shafts and not on others.... this does not seem to be the case in many, if any, of these installations... we would have heard about it on this forum here by now if it were.


The AXYS-QuickDrive™ sprocket, with no protection between the plastic and the sprocket hangs pretty low.

.

 

[JMCX]

The fit on my 15 must have been a class-9. That same sprocket, tried on my 13, fit like a latex glove. I bought a used 'matched set' shaft & pulley from Loudhandle. My Karls pulley would only go on that shaft by pulling it on with the bolt. It was not easy to get off.

 

[mountainhorse]

Great video... dang that thing is loose...

I'm confused about "whats what" in your post though?

The video is a stock 15 pulley on a 15 shaft that came with it??

OR

It was from a shaft and pulley you bought?

Or, it's a 15 pulley on a 13 shaft or 13 pulley on a 15 shaft??

I do see that the 2014 and 2015 lower-pulley (3222204 )is a different part number from the 2013 (3222205)...The driveshafts were different part numbers as well.

What is a "Karls Pulley"?

 

[JMCX]

The vid is of the 15 pulley on the 15 sled, after it broke the bolt. Out of my own curiosity I checked the fit of that pulley on my 13, it was perfect. Meaning to me that the 15 shaft splines are cut too deep. You would think that it being the third year of the design and a history of broken bolts they would have slapped the QC guy up side the head and got things under control. Probably they have things planned out far in advance and had five years worth of shafts sitting in a warehouse in Mexico since 2012. I noticed the different part numbers. The 15 pulley seems to have smoother belt cogs.

I meant to say Kurts pulley.

 

[2XM3]

IMHO its a poor design, it needs to be a miniature copy of the type used on ore superchargers. There should be a thin press fit hub that is splined to the shaft, this is not removed for belt service. It is a light press to the splines and held on by the single bolt. The belt pulley registers to this hub and is held on by 6 bolts, it does not move it does not wobble. We have used this style forever with zero issues on supercharged cars.

http://www.rbssuperchargers.com/images_temp/1024771000WCRDPSI1.JPG

 

[Teth-Air]

I guess we'll see how it plays out here for 2016 and if failures of bolts become common place.

Impacts will cause problems I'm sure... but hopefully the bolt fails first before the shaft or sprocket is bent. That Drive sprocket is hanging out there pretty low below the line of the belly-pan.



That fit is intentional.... not a QC deficit.

I believe that the Polaris drive spec is an SAE Class-6 fit. (Class 4 is the tightest "interference fit" ...Class-7 the most open)

The only way to eliminate "any" rocking or looser fit would be to have a press fit assembly... In the field, that would make for a pretty difficult removal/assembly.

The fit is the way it is so we, as consumers, can change the belt in the field... even with guide-tools.

The aftermarket drives use a tensioner... the sprockets can even be installed and then the belt, followed by proper tension/preload on the belt.
This would allow for a tighter Class-5 fit on the splines for these aftermarket sprockets on the shafts. You can leave the sprockets on and change the belts.

If the QC were not there on the factory cut splines... you would find that these aftermarket sprockets would fit on some shafts and not on others.... this does not seem to be the case in many, if any, of these installations... we would have heard about it on this forum here by now if it were.




.

Actually Tom at TKI says he was finding a huge range of spline measurements before actually deciding on the size to make the matching splines in his pulleys. He was not entirely happy in the end and finalized on just making them the same size as the stock pulley splines. He was going to tighten up the tolerance but then some would have to be hammered on. I know my 2014 was way tighter than my 2015 with the same pulley.

Let's be happy that this is all behind us with the 2016. (I hope)

I will be getting the back plates shortly so I can install my belt drive on the 2016 so I will let everyone know if the pulleys fit tight.

 

[2XM3]

Its a fine line between to loose and " I can't get this f(%$@N# pulley off " lmao

 

[mountainhorse]

CMX was the first to the plate with that design for sleds.

IMHO its a poor design, it needs to be a miniature copy of the type used on ore superchargers. There should be a thin press fit hub that is splined to the shaft, this is not removed for belt service. It is a light press to the splines and held on by the single bolt. The belt pulley registers to this hub and is held on by 6 bolts, it does not move it does not wobble. We have used this style forever with zero issues on supercharged cars.

Thats a very similar design that CMX has been using since 1999.

Definately a better design... but probably not feasible on an OEM production budget.

The more complex the design... the less you realize the gains from lightweight aspects of the drive.

The QuickDrive™ is a lightweight, inexpensive to produce drive.... I'd venture to guess that it costs less to make the QuickDrive™ than to make a chaindrive.

.

 

[CO Powder]

I like the brake on the driveshaft best about the CMX design pictured. Having the brake on the small top pulley is just plain bad design for more than one reason.

 

[mountainhorse]

One of the keys to success with this is chasing out the old loctite, blowing it out... cleaning any oily residue off the bolt/bore and using liberal fresh locktite.

If it is Super sloppy.... and I mean sloppy... and Teth-air said above... no bolt or belt will hold up once it's loose.

I'm expecting very few, if any, bolt issues with the 16's, but only time will tell.


.

 

[Snowmow]

TTT. for ullose272

 

[kylant]

question, please help.

I just installed a 2016 axys driveshaft on my ’14 pro. the 20mm lower pulley quick drive bolt is way to short on the ’16 shaft. the threads don’t even engage.
what length bolt do I need for the lower pulley now? is it 45mm? the parts fiche just says “screw” does not give dimensions.
I assume since I have the ’16 shaft, I need the ’16 bolt.

next question. I see the top pulley bolt is also 45mm instead of 40. can I use the longer bolt on the ’14 jackshaft or is it too long?

thanks

 

[richracer1]

question, please help.

I just installed a 2016 axys driveshaft on my ’14 pro. the 20mm lower pulley quick drive bolt is way to short on the ’16 shaft. the threads don’t even engage.
what length bolt do I need for the lower pulley now? is it 45mm? the parts fiche just says “screw” does not give dimensions.
I assume since I have the ’16 shaft, I need the ’16 bolt.

next question. I see the top pulley bolt is also 45mm instead of 40. can I use the longer bolt on the ’14 jackshaft or is it too long?

thanks

The top and bottom bolts on the '16 Axys QD are now the same. I believe it's M10x1.25x45 and I would get the 10.9 or better grade flanged head bolts.

 

[kylant]

The top and bottom bolts on the '16 Axys QD are now the same. I believe it's M10x1.25x45 and I would get the 10.9 or better grade flanged head bolts.

do you think the 45mm bolt is too long for the ’14 pro jackshaft?

thanks

 

[richracer1]

do you think the 45mm bolt is too long for the ’14 pro jackshaft?

thanks

I takes the same bolt, m10x1.25x45