Question about weights

[rmkrazi]

Sled is an '01 rmk 700...
I just took apart my primary clutch so I could get it ready to balance and do a little r&r. After taking the weights out I noticed they are all rubbing on the inside bottom of the spider on one side. Do I have the wrong weights in my clutch? I changed them out last season with some different ones cause my old weights were worn on the arc and needed to be re-bushed. The weights that I have now are 10-58. I used these weights cause they were what the guy that installed them had at the time and closest in weight to mine. I'm guessing these weights are used in a P-85 narrow roller clutch and they are not compatible with the wide roller clutches. Does that sound right? Too long maybe? I thought all polaris p-85 weights could be used with any p-85 clutch. I hope I just didn't ruin my clutch and really hope this didn't f$#@ my crank. I hope I can re-balance it since there is (imo) now enough material gone to throw the clutch out of balance. Can anyone give some advice and point me the in direction of someone who knows what they are doing when it comes to clutching (indydan where are you?) Thanks

 

[manowar]

10 serice wheights work in all P-85 polaris cluches so you may have somthing going on with that can you put up some pics of exactly where it rubs im not sure im thinking the same place you are talking

 

[rmkrazi]

Here is a picture of a spider I found on the internet and I just highlighted in yellow the area where the weight is rubbing on mine. Keep in mind it is like this around the entire spider on the one side of each inside face. The engravings on the weights are starting to fade from the constant rubbing. What do ya think?

 

[manowar]

So does the outer sheeth where the weights bolt in have any whear on the side ? To alow the wheight to move side to side more than it should .

 

[rmkrazi]

So does the outer sheeth where the weights bolt in have any whear on the side ? To alow the wheight to move side to side more than it should .

No, none that I can see but I will double check. The weight pins looked good but the weight bushings are getting out of round, that might account for some side to side flex.
Do you think the amount of material removed from the spider by the weights rubbing against it is something to be concerned about. 1 of the 3 spots has had a pretty good amount of aluminum scrapped away, while the other 2 only show mild scrapping.Regardless, I still wanna re-balance. Anyway, thanks for the help...

 

[skibreeze]

The worn bushings are the direct cause of the weights rubbing the tower. It needs to be rebalanced and rebuilt.

 

[sled_guy]

Weight pin bushings are shot. When they wear then the weights swing offline and rub the spider. How bad is the spider? If it isn't cut too deep then you can keep using it and the balance job will take care of getting back in balance.

Check the rollers closely to make sure they aren't damaged. With the weights swinging 'sideways' it puts stress on those rollers and can wear them out.

sled_guy

 

[rmkrazi]

Weight pin bushings are shot. When they wear then the weights swing offline and rub the spider. How bad is the spider? If it isn't cut too deep then you can keep using it and the balance job will take care of getting back in balance.

Check the rollers closely to make sure they aren't damaged. With the weights swinging 'sideways' it puts stress on those rollers and can wear them out.

sled_guy

The spiders structural integrity doesn't look to be compromised, I just though the weight bushing had to be worn more for this to happen... guess I was wrong. The rollers seem to be in fair shape, which kind of amazes me since the pin bushings are worn as much as they are. I still am going to probably do a full rebuild on the clutch and balance as well. I think slp is a good place to take it since it's only 50 miles away from me. Thanks for the input!

 

[Ron]

The spiders structural integrity doesn't look to be compromised, I just though the weight bushing had to be worn more for this to happen... guess I was wrong. The rollers seem to be in fair shape, which kind of amazes me since the pin bushings are worn as much as they are. I still am going to probably do a full rebuild on the clutch and balance as well. I think slp is a good place to take it since it's only 50 miles away from me. Thanks for the input!

Some other things can happen when the weights contact the spider. The clutch has a tendancy to hang in one spot rather than shift up....this puts stress on the metal surface of the roller and the weight starting to create flat spots if it goes on too long. You may not be able to see the damage for a while, but later on flat spots will begin to appear on the rollers or weights. Newer rollers are less apt to be damaged but the weights are softer metal.
So I would put all new weights in the sled and then use the weight shims used on Comet clutches to get the weight centered on the roller. Clean the roller surfaces with emory paper and make sure they are still OK.
As the clutch gets some miles it wears a "V" shaped grove at the base on either side of the weight and the weight bushings are not going to hold the weight now. As the weight bushing wears the weights hit the spider and now you have the condition reflected in your pic's.
As was said previously, the spider will be fine but you have to keep the weight centered on the roller-under thrust. Most sled shops will tell you to get a new clutch if replacing parts won't correct the condition so you have to get into this yourself or find a buddy with some knowledge. You can get 10,000 miles out of a primary or destroy it in 1-2,000.

 

[rmkrazi]

Some other things can happen when the weights contact the spider. The clutch has a tendancy to hang in one spot rather than shift up....this puts stress on the metal surface of the roller and the weight starting to create flat spots if it goes on too long. You may not be able to see the damage for a while, but later on flat spots will begin to appear on the rollers or weights. Newer rollers are less apt to be damaged but the weights are softer metal.
So I would put all new weights in the sled and then use the weight shims used on Comet clutches to get the weight centered on the roller. Clean the roller surfaces with emory paper and make sure they are still OK.
As the clutch gets some miles it wears a "V" shaped grove at the base on either side of the weight and the weight bushings are not going to hold the weight now. As the weight bushing wears the weights hit the spider and now you have the condition reflected in your pic's.
As was said previously, the spider will be fine but you have to keep the weight centered on the roller-under thrust. Most sled shops will tell you to get a new clutch if replacing parts won't correct the condition so you have to get into this yourself or find a buddy with some knowledge. You can get 10,000 miles out of a primary or destroy it in 1-2,000.

Sorry to beat this dead horse anymore than I have to... Last week I sent my clutch to slp and just got it back today. I paid a little more than I wanted to but that's just how it goes I guess. Anyway, when I talked to the service manager at slp he said everything checked out on my clutch and that he's seen worse (whatever that means). So I had them go ahead and install new weight bushings, rollers, spring, cover plate and shaft bushings, and a balance. I looked it over and noticed that 2 of the weights have looseness in the weight pins and I can move the pins side to side, the other weight is tight. Also they didn't replace the pucks but said they would put shims behind them. It looks like there is about .010"-.015" gap between 3 of the pucks and the slide rails on the one side of each. That doesn't seem right. Other than that the clutch looks good but I have some concerns. Can anyone suggest anything. Thanks

 

[rmkrazi]

Any suggestions here?

 

[rmkrazi]

Still hoping to get some insight, I'm gonna probably get some new 10-56 weights to swap out with the 10-58's that are in the clutch right now. Thanks

 

[rdr99]

Pin might just be a little tight in the weight bushing. Why are you swapping out the weights? Do you need to gain rpm?

 

[rmkrazi]

10-56 is the stock setting...