primary

[roo]

anyone no weight of stock primary spring 503? 550 has pink 230/350 would think needed to be lighter?

 

[TLKDPROD]

In the 503 manual, they say stock spring part number is V10-55-102-22 which I sure as hell never heard of a such thing !

On an '07 550F Summit (beleive it or not they've got the same freakin primary as you and the 503!) and the spring is a Blue/Orange (130-200lbs) which kind of makes more sense than 230-350.

Well I am not a clutching Guru at all here! If it would have been a TRA, I would have been able to guide you but these primary have a totally different working principle than the TRA that i'm not really aware of !

 

[bmiller]

tra

Hey tlk I bought a 2003 tra for my hawk. It is suppose to be for a 600 rev mxz. Not sure what I will need for weights. Baseline, can I copy the rev specs and fine tune from there.

I ride at 1500' at home and when I go west I ride 6700' to 9000' Island Park

I have little experience with tra but I can manage.

 

[snow hawk gal]

Yes you can.

Careful with that hole saw, when you lean left.

See 800HO belly pan wear guard for TRA!

 

[TLKDPROD]

Hey tlk I bought a 2003 tra for my hawk. It is suppose to be for a 600 rev mxz. Not sure what I will need for weights. Baseline, can I copy the rev specs and fine tune from there.

I ride at 1500' at home and when I go west I ride 6700' to 9000' Island Park

I have little experience with tra but I can manage.

If I were you bmiller Id start off with the '02 503F Summit setup. It's got the TRA primary pretty surprisingly ! Now I don't know what TRA you have (1, 2 or 3), the ramps may not be interchangeable from 1&2 to 3, working principles are pretty much the same though. According to the doo online parts catalog the setup goes as follow:

Yellow/Yellow Spring (100-230lbs)
296 ramps
Pins weight - Can't tell, there's only the part number, no specs.

I read lots and lots on the Doo forum about clutching and so far there's just half of a handful of guys really knowing this territory (unfortunately there's soooooo much BS on these threads...) and the most useful info I found was on Dymano Joe's website : http://www.mxzx-revzone.com/ Go to the Clutching IQ section, that's an unbelievable source of info. Pretty much all the clutching problems are stated there and a solution is proposed

There's so much useful & interesting information, read all that and try to understand what he means, everything makes sense.

Not that being said, I think the yellow/yellow spring might not be enough force. That low force spring will allow the engagement to be really low in RPM I think and we may suppose that Doo put that spring in because a 503F Summit is more a girl or a kid's sled than anything else ! You may go with a little more force for I think. Read the website here again there's a section on springs.

Get yourself a kit of adjustable pins weight, you will need it for that much height elevation. These pin weight are directly related to RPM, want higher RPM, take some weight off. Overrevving - Add some weight. If you're an experienced snowmobiler you'll notice you won't be able to carry as much weight at 9000 ft than 1500 !

Clickers are kind of a tricky thing cause you can correct you RPM with them. They change the angle of the ramp. But what Dynamo Joe says is that you should start by choosing the best clicker # (the one that will give you the most straight shift (read website for definitions...), THEN adjust RPM with the pin weight. Of course if you're lacking 300 rpm and don't have the tools, click her down but the way to do it would be clicker first then weight second.

Secondary is another thing. It is a torque sensitive device. If you have the stock 50-44 Helix, I think you should go down on angle just a bit if you ride mountains & powder. 50-44 is awesome for sea level trail though, that's what I had on my 503. That less agressive Helix teamed up with a bit stiffer spring will allow quicker backshift when you "load" the motor when hitting a softer/deeper spot of snow. That setup will transfer less of the load to the primary and you'll be able to hold you RPM.

Hey Damn gotta stop ! Everything's on Dynamo Joe's website ! Good luck !
Ramp profiles can be found in the Doo Racebook and Spring forces can be found below that post !

 

[TLKDPROD]

Primary spring forces

Here's a pretty cool list of Springs, I don't deserve credits for that, I found it on the Dootalk forum :

GP-GOODWIN, ER- ERLANDSEN , ST-STRAIGHTLINE, DT-DALTON, COLORS ONLY ARE OEM SKI DOO, T-TITANIUM

70-170 RD/RD 414689800
70-200 RD/ORG 415015200
70-230 RD/YL 414817500
70-260 RD/GR 414689200
70-290 RD/BL 414691500
70-320 RD/PR 414701000
100-170 YL/RD 414993000
100-200 YL/ORG 414689700
100-230 YL/YL 414748600
100-260 YL/GR 414742100
100-290 YL/BL 414818000
100-320 YL/PR 414678400
130-200 BL/ORG 414639000
130-230 BL/YL 414689500
130-260 BL/GR 414817700
130-290 BL/BL 414689400
130-320 BL/PR 414817800
130-350 BL/PK 414916300
150-240 WHITE 414605600
160-230 PR/YL 415015300
160-260 PR/GR 415015400
160-270 YL 414605500
160-290 PR/BL 415034900
160-320 PR/PR 414817900
160-350 PR/PK 414949500
185-410 BLACK 415019500
185-410T SILVER 1140-0050T
190-280 ER-GR SDPS-10
190-300 ER-PR SDPS-6
190-410 GP-YL 420-520
190-420 ST-BLU 121-141
195-295 DT-PUR DPPS-PUR
200-280 GP-GR 420-546
200-290 GN-BL 415768200
200-320 GR/PR 414762800
200-320 ER-BK SDPS-5
200-350 GR/PK 414756900
200-350 ER-RED SDPS-9
200-380 GR/WHT 414222371
205-328 DT-GRY DPPS-GRY
210-345 GP-GOLD 420-545
215-375 GP-RD 420-502
220-420 ST-RED 121-142
225-385 DT-RD/GRN DPPS-RD/GRN
230-320 PK/PR 414754200
230-340 ER-GOLD SDPS-7
230-350 PK/PK 415074800
230-380 PK/WHT 414991400
230-390 GR 415019600*
230-410 RD 415019700
235-360 DT-WHT DPPS-WHT
240-320 ER-YLW SDPS-4
240-370T SILVER 1140-0051T
240-390 ER-BL SDPS-1
240-430 BL 415019800
245-375 GP-ORG 420-540T
250-380 WHT/WHT 417222004
250-460 PK 415019900
250-480 ST-BLK 121-143
260-420 WHT/SIL 417222164
280-390 ER-SIL SDPS-8
280-420 GR/GR 415020100*
280-420 ER-WHT SDPS-3
280-450 ST-YLW 121-144
280-460 RD/RD 415020200*
280-510 BL/BL 415020300*
310-460 PK/PK 415020400*
310-510 ORG/ORG 415020500*

 

[cjgodden]

When I put the tra on my 600, I started with stock 700 summit specs. I was a little heavy on the pins to start and I went to 14 grams at sea level. It works good up to about 6000 ft.

I would say for a 600 at your elevation starting with the 600 mxz stuff would be a good start.

 

[TLKDPROD]

Oh you've got an '05 so it's a 600 ! Damn so all I said about the 503F doesn't work ! I don't know where my head was... I thought you had a 503 because of Roo's post..

Sorry ! Same principle applies though ! Read dynamo joe's website for tuning tips !

 

[cjgodden]

I suppose I should have said....

299 ramps, 14 gram pins, And I don't remember the spring but its a stock 2001 700 summit spring.

 

[TLKDPROD]

Stock '01 summit 700 primary spring is a Purple/Yellow (160-230).

That's what I switched the stock spring for last year in my 800 and was pretty good. Trying a Purple/Purple (160-320) this week-end (for the first time of the year), apparently good results have been achieved with this spring in 800s in the mountains. That's what the new XP comes with this year.