Primary clutch question

[skippy]

I'm in the process of setting my belt to sheave and can't quite get the proper distance without removing the thicker aluminum washer that goes in first. I can get the proper distance with three steel washers in place of the aluminum washer. Can I get by without using the thicker aluminum washer or is it mandatory to be in there? Thanks

 

[xcmark]

the aluminum washer is a crush washer for over TQ on the spider. I would not suggest tossing it. Could you just sand off a few thou ?

 

[4Z]

in over 15 years re-shimming, have never had an issue by removing the aluminum spacer. Can't remember when they started using it, but it was not always there.....

You can purchase a package of shims from SLP that have a bunch of different thicknesses. I recommend getting a couple packs since they all have slightly different variations in thickness which is real handy when getting the right stack. Takes a little time to get is set right by trying different shims, but goes quicker once you get the hang of it.

One point to make, the moveable sheave's seat has a step in it, or in other words is recessed. If attention is not payed to this, the shim (depending upon what thickness) has the potential to not sit down in the recess and deform when spider is torqued. Throwing off the belt to sheave clearance.

I like to put a little dab of silver anti-seeze on the threads to make sure the torque is good and it will come apart easily on next rebuild. Also red lock-tite on the spider nut threads. Don't forget to mark or scribe the outer edge of the sheaves (like with a hack saw) before disassembly. I like to line these scribes inline with the "X"s on spider and cover. When final torque is applied you want to get these scribes as close as possible. The tolerance is 1.25" per the manual. Have ran them at that much with no ill effect.

.02

 

[xc6rider]

This is the reason some guys machine the clutch, so it can be shimmed properly, using all components.

 

[skippy]

Thanks guys!

I can't for the life of me believe Polaris lets it leave the factory that far off. I mean C'mon, I can stick like fifteen feeler gauges between the sheave and brand new belt!!! I can hardly get it close to spec be removing all the washers... unreal! I'm just going to end up grinding the aluminum washer down on a belt sander and call it good with just the aluminum spacer.

Does anyone know the proper torque specs for the spider and the nut? thanks

 

[4Z]

200 lbs on the spider, 230 on lock nut.

Don't forget, you can clock the spider in different towers to get your scribe marks to line up on the sheaves if needed.

 

[geo]

Skippy, have you ever owned an Cat?

Seriously though lol, I like to bug the dealer and measure a bunch of belts 'til I find one or two that fit my clutches. There can be quite a difference if you are measuring things anyway. I.E. .025" in width and 3/16ths in length are not unusual differences when I measure a batch of production belts.
I'm pretty sure that is why most companies err on the big side for belt to sheave clearance stock.

4Z. Is Poo perfect lol. Is it possible (have you seen) to have a miscast spyder on a P85. Meaning not symmetrical. Meaning not perfect 120 degree C to C around the circumference of the arms?


Signed; Need fresh snow!

 

[skippy]

Geo,

I completely understand what your saying and agree... My beef is that you can't even adjust it properly without having to shave down parts on the clutch to get it within spec, why can't Polaris leave room for that? Anyways it a minor complaint and it won't wreck my day! Later

No cats for this guy!

 

[skippy]

200 lbs on the spider, 230 on lock nut.

Don't forget, you can clock the spider in different towers to get your scribe marks to line up on the sheaves if needed.

4Z,

If I understand you correctly about clocking the spider are you saying I can spin the x mark on the spider to a different ramp location without sacrificing an unbalanced clutch? thanks

Next question, If I'm limited for time before my next trip for having the clutch re balanced what's more important?
1- having the right belt to sheave clearance or
2-leaving it the way it is, which is properly balanced for now.

 

[Kraven]

in over 15 years re-shimming, have never had an issue by removing the aluminum spacer. Can't remember when they started using it, but it was not always there.....

You can purchase a package of shims from SLP that have a bunch of different thicknesses. I recommend getting a couple packs since they all have slightly different variations in thickness which is real handy when getting the right stack. Takes a little time to get is set right by trying different shims, but goes quicker once you get the hang of it.

One point to make, the moveable sheave's seat has a step in it, or in other words is recessed. If attention is not payed to this, the shim (depending upon what thickness) has the potential to not sit down in the recess and deform when spider is torqued. Throwing off the belt to sheave clearance.

I like to put a little dab of silver anti-seeze on the threads to make sure the torque is good and it will come apart easily on next rebuild. Also red lock-tite on the spider nut threads. Don't forget to mark or scribe the outer edge of the sheaves (like with a hack saw) before disassembly. I like to line these scribes inline with the "X"s on spider and cover. When final torque is applied you want to get these scribes as close as possible. The tolerance is 1.25" per the manual. Have ran them at that much with no ill effect.

.02

Agree with 4z^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I usually remove the factory thick aluminum spacer, replace with multiple shims to achieve desired clearance, no problems.

Ditto for have the spyder not aligned with the other "X" s

For the guys worried about aligning the "X" s, what makes you believe the clutch was balanced CORRECTLY from the factory?

Seriously, had a lot of primaries re-balanced on new sleds, most were close, but NOT all

 

[4Z]

Ditto for have the spyder not aligned with the other "X" s

For the guys worried about aligning the "X" s, what makes you believe the clutch was balanced CORRECTLY from the factory?

Seriously, had a lot of primaries re-balanced on new sleds, most were close, but NOT all

Agree with Kraven ^^^^^^^^^ here....

The spider spins on and rests in the exact same place each time as long as shim stack is not changed. When you change the thickness of the shim stack the spider (and the X) will end up in a different location, until you change the stack again. Since the spider has the least amount of effect on balance (compared to the movable sheave) you can re-clock the spider to the next tower without ill effect... again, like geo said, they are not perfect... but dozens of times I have done this and never, ever have seen anything negative, nor heard of anyone else seeing anything negative. Guess where it was learned..... the Polaris service manual! Very common procedure.

When clocking the spider and the scribe marks are too far apart, notice what tower is the closest, mark it with a sharpie and clock the spider to that tower and you are golden. If you still can't get close enough, that is where a slightly different thickness of shim comes in handy. You can replace one shim with a slightly thicker or thinner shim to move the scribe marks closer on sheaves. Not rocket science but take your time and once you get the hang of it.... there is nothing sweeter than having perfect belt to sheave clearance!

4Z,

If I understand you correctly about clocking the spider are you saying I can spin the x mark on the spider to a different ramp location without sacrificing an unbalanced clutch? thanks Yes, that is correct.

Next question, If I'm limited for time before my next trip for having the clutch re balanced what's more important?
1- having the right belt to sheave clearance or
2-leaving it the way it is, which is properly balanced for now.
This is your call ultimately, but since you have limited time and don't think you can accomplish this.... and don't want to potentially ruin a trip, leave it the way it is. The balance thing by spider clocking is not something I would worry about if done corretly!

4Z. Is Poo perfect lol. Is it possible (have you seen) to have a miscast spyder on a P85. Meaning not symmetrical. Meaning not perfect 120 degree C to C around the circumference of the arms? To be honest Tony, I have not paid close attention to the C to C on the spider. I have seen some goofy casting things like others have mentioned. For example on one clutch I had tapered to fit my M7BB, was setting it up with old school Heel Clickers when I had to get creative when accounting for the amount of "tuck" the HC's had. Ground a bunch of material off to allow them to seat properly.... even with this extensive massaging it did not cause any issues. Rode it hard for 3 seasons with tons of different set ups in it and motor mods. The cat crank was BEEFY so maybe it is more forgiving than the Poo?


Signed; Need fresh snow!

 

[73 Starfire]

Seriously though lol, I like to bug the dealer and measure a bunch of belts 'til I find one or two that fit my clutches. There can be quite a difference if you are measuring things anyway. I.E. .025" in width and 3/16ths in length are not unusual differences when I measure a batch of production belts.

Geo- Are you finding this much variation in 115 belts?

 

[skippy]

Thanks for all the great information. I took your guys advice and ended up removing the aluminum washer and installed three steel washers in place of it. I also ended up switching ramp locations with the spider to get my marks within an inch of the original scribe marks I made. Link below is SLP version which he mentions nothing about balancing clutch afterwards which is inline with what you guys are saying. Except Dustin kept the x's aligned and didn't worry about possible unbalance. Question now is, do I match the x's back up or keep it the way it is? Thanks again..

 

[skippy]

Seriously though lol, I like to bug the dealer and measure a bunch of belts 'til I find one or two that fit my clutches. There can be quite a difference if you are measuring things anyway. I.E. .025" in width and 3/16ths in length are not unusual differences when I measure a batch of production belts.

Geo- Are you finding this much variation in 115 belts?

I'm not Geo, but went this morning to my local Polaris dealer and asked if I could measure some 115 belts and the parts guy gave me the weirdest damn look ever....lol Anyways after some persuasion, I started measuring the width and they are all very inconsistent to each other width wise, couldn't quite get a good reading on the length by one belt on top of the other method...

 

[geo]

I had 50ish thou with my belt from the box on the '13 Pro. Found 2 belts at the dealer that measured and gave me 30 ish thou and were a 1/8" longer OD but yes the belts they had in stock were very consistent but they only had 6 lol.
Those were the belts I used and still use. Amazing life for me but low miles this year.

If your using the Cat 048 (my spare) you will find quite a bit more variance (and way more in stock lol). The more expensive Cat 08#'s belts get more consistent too.
I have way more experience measuring and worrying about Cat belts.

You really do get what you pay for when you buy a belt from the OEM's.

 

[Kraven]

BELT LENGTHS & CLUTCH BALANCING

Seriously though lol, I like to bug the dealer and measure a bunch of belts 'til I find one or two that fit my clutches. There can be quite a difference if you are measuring things anyway. I.E. .025" in width and 3/16ths in length are not unusual differences when I measure a batch of production belts.

Geo- Are you finding this much variation in 115 belts?

BELT LENGTHS

On the newer belts (3211115) I have seen them to be VERY CLOSE.

On the older 3211080 (EDGE) belts, they were INconsistent

That's why POLARIS offered the 3211087 CLOSE TOLERANCE belt (no longer available)

If you look at some older catalogs, ERLANDSON USED to sell belts that they measured by specific length in 1/8" increments, but now they're of the same opinion that the POLARIS O.E.M. belts are very close.


CLUTCH BALANCING

POLARIS & SLP balance the clutch as an assembly, so you'll want to have at least the "x"s on the sheaves come close in lining up.

Now, if you're a set-it and-forget-it kinda sledder, set your belt to sheave clearance, then send it out to have it balanced, and you're done.

But once you change weights, as some have different shoulder heights, then you have to re-set belt to sheave,and well, the entire search for aligning the "x"s starts all over again.

If you have a shop like INDY Dan balance your clutches, the sheaves are balanced individually, so you won't have to worry about aligning the "X"s and you can sleep at night.......................................................

 

[4Z]

Question now is, do I match the x's back up or keep it the way it is? Thanks again..

The cap and movable sheave should have the x's lined up. If you had to clock the spider to a different tower, I wouldn't worry about that x. I think you are golden skippy!

Dustin has a liability thing they have to worry about. Notice they didn't give torque specs either.....
Also, they should have mentioned the threads in the spider staying on movable sheave post on the Cat clutches is not surprising.... LOL.

 

[carbontj]

Here are my thoughts on the shims and balancing. You can purchase shims from .002, .005,.007,.0010,.0012, .0015 all the way through .050 from McMaster Carr from almost nothing. They are SS shim washers. You can get the proper clearance that way easier than machining. Now the balancing part being I balance many clutches on my balancer here is what I have found. Industry standard is anywhere from 2.0-3.0 grams out of balance, this equates to about 30-50 lbs out of balance at 8000 RPM. Some are worse some are better. Polaris is much closer than A Cat... If you move your balancing marks lets say .250 off it will equate/change to about 10-15 lbs more out of balance. I don't see that as a huge deal if your clutch is pretty good, if it is already on the bad side it may make to far out of balance. I would suggest if you wear out your bushings faster than normal or feel vibration that you did not have before then you need to get it balanced. If not then you should be fine.

TJ