Power Commander needed?

[cold gas]

Hi,
I am totally new to snowbikes, as in I just bought two kits and am building them as soon as my fit kits arrive. Been a dirt biker for 20 years and they look like a great way to ride most of the year.
I think I have learned that I need a thermostat for sure but am not sure if I will need a power commander or similar set up on the bike? The bikes I am using are a 2012 and a 2013 KX450. What is everybody doing to compensate for the cold and altitude? It was recomended to me that the power commander with auto tune option be used, but since thats another $1200 I figured I would see what everybody else has been doing?

Thanks

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

there are so many BETTER options then a PC. and honestly, the bike doesnt really have issues its the fact that it ISNT allowed up to operating temp meaning yes it runs bad, but you also shouldnt be hammering your bike at those temps. so thermostat would be best bet.

 

[cold gas]

I have every intention of running a thermostat. Order the Ktm one that was recomended in a thread here.

What I am wondering is if I need a PC as well to compensate for the cold air temperatures outside and the altitude in the mountains? What is everybody else with the FI KX's doing?

Thanks

 

[JTAB]

Power Commander

Power Commander with Auto Tune last season 5 days riding with it and just added thermostat a couple of weeks ago.
That should help with low temps and was happy with the Power Commander.

 

[SLDHVN]

no, its not needed.

do the thermostat, or even just block a radiator and enjoy it. we have seen plenty of bikes run just fine without. my 11 yz and my brothers 10 cr went from 3-7000 feet all the way to 7-10,000 feet, never skipped a beat. sure, it will help, but no it is not needed. my .02

 

[Rush44]

Bazzaz Z-AFM

Several buddies of mine use this and I will have it on my new Kawi for this season. One thing that seems to be a good idea is the optional switch that Bazzaz sells so you can program in a low altitude and high altitude map and flip the switch at the truck and when you reach your normal riding altitude.

 

[Jon Mutiger]

My opinion is the KX450's work really good with no additional EFI tuning.

 

[powdermuncher]

Make sure your engine runs at the right temps and don't reinvent the wheel.

Unless you have big mods like --- a turbo -- it is a waste of time.

I will spend my energy riding - spend to many years tuning mod sleds

not going to get into it with the snow donkeys .

Famous last words eh

 

[KAWGRN]

Yep! Although I need A Rekluse clutch, pegs, a GPS a seat,Different Mods!!! But mods just the same,,,but mabe a nitrous system!!!LOL

 

[teal_210]

I really don't think a fuel controller is necessary as long as you begin with the correct mapping.

IMO you're time and money will be better spent on getting rid of the airbox and going with a snorkel type intake.

 

[J&L Snowhawk]

new order

Bazzaz Z-AFM

Several buddies of mine use this and I will have it on my new Kawi for this season. One thing that seems to be a good idea is the optional switch that Bazzaz sells so you can program in a low altitude and high altitude map and flip the switch at the truck and when you reach your normal riding altitude.

im ordering one of these for my friend and was wondering are your friends also getting the auto tune to go with the base unit? we will be doing the thermostats too.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

so... if you have a PC and want a LCD or way to see your AFR your around $1200..

bazzaz, $630 and no way to display afr without seperate gauge...

and another option thats a $300, displays afr and can closed loop fuel.

http://dobeckperformance.com/GEN4/Gen4technology.asp

 

[Rush44]

The Z-AFM is the auto-tune box that plugs into your Bazzaz Z-Fi MX (which gives you the two maps to switch between). At this point everyone I know is just using the Z-Fi MX... I don't have any data on how well the Z-AFM works with the Fi.

I need to find someone that has more cash than me to try it out

 

[powdermuncher]

The EFI Bike adjusts for altitude and temp .

Yamaha has the fully adjustable FI and Ignition anyway.

Even if you do headwork and a pipe, you get 3-4 hp on these bikes - that is

way more notiable in the Dirt than on snow.

They are not like sleds where there is 10 - 20 hp gain with some easy fix.

Unless you dig deep into the not so reliable mod box there are no huge

gains available . A litle super charger would be well "super"

 

[J&L Snowhawk]

I can help with that

The Z-AFM is the auto-tune box that plugs into your Bazzaz Z-Fi MX (which gives you the two maps to switch between). At this point everyone I know is just using the Z-Fi MX... I don't have any data on how well the Z-AFM works with the Fi.

I need to find someone that has more cash than me to try it out

If someone want one I can get them and will give u best deal I can. I think we will get both pieces right away and c how it does.

 

[mtn-doo]

The EFI Bike adjusts for altitude and temp .

Yamaha has the fully adjustable FI and Ignition anyway.

Even if you do headwork and a pipe, you get 3-4 hp on these bikes - that is

way more notiable in the Dirt than on snow.

They are not like sleds where there is 10 - 20 hp gain with some easy fix.

Unless you dig deep into the not so reliable mod box there are no huge

gains available . A litle super charger would be well "super"

They don't adjust for altitude. Temp only. These are a simple FI system. You are thinking of a smart system like our modern auto's have. The closest FI smart system that computes Density Altitude from Pressure Altitude by Temperature corrections is the Husaberg and KTM systems. All of our 450MX bikes are the simple system adjusting fuel for temp. Cold air, they add fuel, then we are riding high altitude which compounds the issue. They run fine stock, but over fueling. This can be confirmed by reading AFR's. They are off the charts rich. Targer is 12.8 to 13.0 optimum for a 450MX motor.

 

[mtn-doo]

The Z-AFM is the auto-tune box that plugs into your Bazzaz Z-Fi MX (which gives you the two maps to switch between). At this point everyone I know is just using the Z-Fi MX... I don't have any data on how well the Z-AFM works with the Fi.

The Z-AFM is not a box that holds two maps. The lower AFM box coming from your AFR Probe only records then stores your current AFR figures. With that info, you can request changes for a desired AFR figure, 12.8 to 13.0 ideally, the Bazzaz software will make the necessary changes to that map, then you click "apply". The new map with the changes for fueling to achieve your desired AFR is applied to your Z-FI MX box. Then you must hit "clear" before exiting the program. The Z-AFM box is now empty. The map you just created is now in the Z-FI MX box. You can do this in two different riding enviroments and they are both stored in the Z-FI MX box. The map select switch then allows you to switch between each map on the fly . Now you can un-plug the Z-AFM box from the probe, and completely remove it. The Z-AFM box only records data for making map changes, then cleared and removed.

 

[cr500afx]

Make sure your engine runs at the right temps and don't reinvent the wheel.

Unless you have big mods like --- a turbo -- it is a waste of time.

I will spend my energy riding - spend to many years tuning mod sleds

not going to get into it with the snow donkeys .

Famous last words eh

"snow donkeys". Lol. That's what we call them down here in Colorado!

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

Just ran a bike at work with an AFR gauge on it from about 25*F to ~210*F

Test mule was a 09 CRF450R with a full FMF exhaust.Bike started idlinging at around 11.5afr and slowly worked down into the high 10's sitting at idle at full operating temp. from reports from the owner it runs in the mid 11's ALL the time warm or cold up or down in the hills.

It seems that its not that the bikes arent warm causing overfueling, as persay a cold start enrichment, but just that they are very rich to start so then cold motors = poorly seated rings as well as oil not getting hot and the gas isnt evaporating.

 

[cold gas]

What is a normal operating temp for a 450 Mx bike? I noticed that a few people have said they are running 70* thermostats but that seems awfully cold for a motor to run at?