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Please, not just snowmobiles

Our friend WMC.

http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2011/aug/05/please-not-just-snowmobiles/

Please, not just snowmobilesBy Robert Mullins and Gus Bekker

Friday, August 5, 2011

Will it be Snowmobile National Forest, or expanded wilderness? What is the reasonable middle ground? The short answer is, please, U.S. Forest Service, manage the winter forest for multiple recreational uses, in some reasonable balance, in consideration of the impacts to nature, and for all of the public owners of the forest.

We are asking that the local Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest managers designate significant areas for non-motorized winter recreation — an activity of the majority of off-highway winter forest users. We ask also for reasonable management of the single dominant use — snowmobiles, by a relative few in the general public. The accessible areas set aside currently for winter non-motorized use are pitifully small. Most wilderness is inaccessible in winter to most people, although snowmobile riding allows access in some examples.

Skiers, snowshoers, winter campers, dog sledders, skijorers, climbers, runners, even snowmobile-assisted ski tourers, seek pristine, safe, snow-covered areas for quiet recreation. The challenge is to find quiet and pristine accessible areas away from the current typical situation of rutted, offroad, snowmobile speedways. USFS Wenatchee Forest management dates back to the days when snowmobiles were ridden almost entirely on roads.

The recent advancements of snowmobile technology and horsepower have allowed for the exponential expansion of offroad snowmobile riding in the winter forest. Areas normally ridden now include to the high summits of 5,000-plus feet to 7,000-foot peaks of the Wenatchee Mountains crest, from Mission Ridge to Ingalls Lake, and also across the wilderness boundary deep into the Alpine Lakes. To contrast, in summer, we all expect that when hiking a forest trail we will not see or hear loud, intrusive, motorized vehicles riding all over the offroad areas of the forest, and close to us as we hike (exception are trails legal for motorcycles or ATVs). Why, we ask, has USFS allowed the current snowmobile free-for-all to evolve on the winter forest?

Snowmobile riding is great recreation. However, that activity must be managed as are other uses. Cars, trucks, Jeeps, motorcycles, mountain bikes, motor boats, horses, and even camping and hiking — all are managed in regard to where and how they are used on the forest. There has been little or no USFS consideration, planning, NEPA process, EIS, request for public input, not even a formal designation for snowmobile recreation for these currently used extensive areas of the pristine, unroaded Wenatchee Mountains. While snowmobile riding is a reasonable and legitimate activity, it is an activity on the forest that excludes the safe or reasonable quiet pedestrian use of the same terrain.

We ask for public input to Forest Service. We ask that winter non-motorized forest users describe how and where they recreate, and also share their thoughts about this issue and this need with the Forest Supervisor and the Forest Plan Revision Team. Contact Forest Supervisor Rebecca Heath and the Forest Plan Revision Team: Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest Headquarters, 215 Melody Lane, Wenatchee, WA 98801,

Robert Mullins, Leavenworth, and Gus Bekker, Wenatchee, represent the Wenatchee Mountains Coalition.
 
It's pretty pitiful to see the biased 'hatred' towards motorized users continue (not that it surprises me at all). It is pathetic that they put the contact info for the USFS, but not their own organization that is 'representing' this statement. Myself, as well as thousands of other riders would gladly share any square inch of land we ride on with any other non-motorized winter use group without hesitation. Why the F*** can't these groups be forced to get educated about how easy it is to share millions of acres of public land equally, just like we are forced to continually provide input to land use issues left and right??? The collective motorized winter use community needs to continue to provide positive input and education as to why we have every right to share public land for recreation with all the other groups. I put in comments to all the ARRA, BRC, and SAWS issues, but could still do more. We have power in numbers and need to continue the fight to enjoy OUR land for generations to come. That's all for now :)

racer
 
The guy comes on here and says he is one of us, a snowmobiler... I wonder why he didn't state that in the article?
 
What a joke, around here the riding area is so small compared to wilderness area its pathetic, and it is accessed by people from many states. I have rarely been able to spot any snowshoeing, skiing, non-motorized activities of any sort in these wilderness area's to boot. Most of them use the same area we use then complain there isn't enough when there are areas no one has ever been in the winter and most likely summer too. If you put it into a equal effect then you should take the number of motorized users vs the number of non-motorized users and split it on the same percentage. That would mean about 1-2% would be non-motorized users (and thats a stretch). Snowmobiling has no impact on any thing that could not be adapted by nature or the environment, therefor in my mind it is insane to state there is a true impact. In fact where we ride you never see wildlife of any kind or tracks for that matter. (maybe some in the spring) I say lets make it fair and spit all public land weather its wilderness, FS, BLM etc... on a percentage based system then we can use the land we pay for too.
 
away from the current typical situation of rutted, offroad, snowmobile speedways.

Not only does the initial post have me shaking my head but this statement makes no sense to me.

The reason that motor vehicles and such are managed on the forest is because the forest CAN be harmed from cars, motorcycles, trucks, etc if everyone had free roam of the mountain with no restriction.

Thats the whole idea of snowmobiling and why it is the best recreational sport on earth. You can have free roam over the forest while doing absolutely zero harm to the mountain due to the blanket of snow that covers it.

Why cant we all just share the mountain in the winter time? I have rarely if ever seen any non-motorized recreation activities taking place while i was riding...but even if there were skiers, snowshoers, dog sledders, etc. on the mountain while i was riding i would have zero problem sharing the mountain with them respectfully. They have the same right to be there that we do.

Now lets all enjoy the coming snow season!
 
Not only does the initial post have me shaking my head but this statement makes no sense to me.

The reason that motor vehicles and such are managed on the forest is because the forest CAN be harmed from cars, motorcycles, trucks, etc if everyone had free roam of the mountain with no restriction.

Be careful with statements like this they will turn it against you, That statement somewhat says they are right in doing it for those vehicles therefor justifying it and moving them forward. Its a crock, the people own the land and have absolutely no control over it. They will argue, noise pollution, higher chance of avalanches destroys forest, CO2 output, or there is some endangered species that will be harmed etc... But everything they argue is not going to ruin anything, it rolls right into a natural state of play and the Eco system takes care of it all. Those that think man can ruin the earth are crazy, we might be able to mess it up a little, but when push comes to shove mother nature will remove us first and keep on truckin. Its all about money and lobbyists.

You can ride a dirt bike down a game trail and it will do less damage than the animals. They have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars putting in horse trails around here and not a single orv trail, yet we are the ones buying stickers and getting dirty looks. (the rangers get a little pi$$y when you throw that in there face as a reason for not having a sticker) If we could ride these other trails for one day a month and everyone else could use them for what ever without us there the rest of the time, we would happily maintain the trails and keep it low impact (lower than horses easily) But no, if it makes noise and go's fast its evil. I can go on and on, but it wont change for a while, it is just barely starting to turn a corner from horrible to still bad. I hope we can keep calling out there bs and get some equal rights one of these days.
 
The problem with every single situation that we have to deal with is the un-educated TOTAL BS these groups force on the gov't entities. It's not new news that 1 motorized vehicle vs. 1 non-motorized recreationalist will create a different 'footprint' in the wilderness. DUH, we get it. Our battle isn't against the years and years of biased, hate-fueled 'facts' that these groups continue to spread like wildfire. Our true enemy is the huge population of people that aren't interested in the true meaning of equality. They are the big $$$$$$$$ pocket organizations that continue to try and slam us in the ground year after year. The same group of people that intentionally vote polititians into office that share the same bias hatred towards anything that doesn't fit their agenda. It isn't about environmental impact statements or wildlife conservation efforts. It's about big money and power and what group will be able to push hardest $$$$$ in the end and buy their way of life from the government. The uphill battle will continue to get steeper for us. We just can't ever give up on the fight. I know, I know, another thread with a bunch of great input that needs to be pursued down the right avenue. Any possible way to keep people educated works for me. I would love to go to every court hearing to support our land use groups, but for myself and a majority of all of us that isn't possible. It doesn't mean that these discussions don't do anything to help though. Keep spreading the word any way possible. We will be heard.

racer
 
The problem with going to all the meeting and hearings is that those of us that use the lands are the ones working/paying the taxes that are used against us, so we don't have the time to take away from our hard work. I wish we could create a movement to stop paying taxes until we get equality. Where not even trying to run anyone out, we will share unlike the other side that just want to take and think they know whats best.
 
Be careful with statements like this they will turn it against you, That statement somewhat says they are right in doing it for those vehicles therefor justifying it and moving them forward. Its a crock, the people own the land and have absolutely no control over it. They will argue, noise pollution, higher chance of avalanches destroys forest, CO2 output, or there is some endangered species that will be harmed etc... But everything they argue is not going to ruin anything, it rolls right into a natural state of play and the Eco system takes care of it all. Those that think man can ruin the earth are crazy, we might be able to mess it up a little, but when push comes to shove mother nature will remove us first and keep on truckin. Its all about money and lobbyists.

You can ride a dirt bike down a game trail and it will do less damage than the animals. They have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars putting in horse trails around here and not a single orv trail, yet we are the ones buying stickers and getting dirty looks. (the rangers get a little pi$$y when you throw that in there face as a reason for not having a sticker) If we could ride these other trails for one day a month and everyone else could use them for what ever without us there the rest of the time, we would happily maintain the trails and keep it low impact (lower than horses easily) But no, if it makes noise and go's fast its evil. I can go on and on, but it wont change for a while, it is just barely starting to turn a corner from horrible to still bad. I hope we can keep calling out there bs and get some equal rights one of these days.


I think my statement was taken wrong...all i was trying to get out was the reason snowmobiles have free roam over the forest and why other motorized stuff have to stick to marked trails/roads when there isnt snow on the ground. I completely agree with you in how most of it is a complete crock...
 
I think my statement was taken wrong...all i was trying to get out was the reason snowmobiles have free roam over the forest and why other motorized stuff have to stick to marked trails/roads when there isnt snow on the ground. I completely agree with you in how most of it is a complete crock...

I know what you where trying to say, I was just pointing out how they will take it, twist it and use it against you. You have to be very careful how you state things and never use examples
 
This is my viewpoint. I have absolutely no problem sharing the trails with any other form of recreation during the winter WHEN they pay to have the trails groomed just like we do. Until then, as far as I'm concerned that's MY trail that I paid to have open!

Same thing with the horse trails mentioned above, the people riding horses didn't pay 50 bucks a year to slap a sticker on the horses @ss allowing them access to those trails...no the motorcycle riders that pay the registration fees every year did! And they can't even ride on them!

If you want equal access then you have to make an equal contribution. Gas, grass, or @ss no one rides for free! :)

- Justin P.
 
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