12 gallons will get you at least 70 miles of hard deep snow riding. and believe it or not simmons can make a small transfer "jerry tank"
OVS 14LB TURBO NO RACE GAS NEEDED!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter Pure Logic Tuning
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12 gallons will get you at least 70 miles of hard deep snow riding. and believe it or not simmons can make a small transfer "jerry tank"
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Johnmaster
Well-known member
That would be my concern, would be nice if the tank were disconnectable so you could buy extra tanks and have them filled anywhere, or if there was a fitting/hose so you could transfer a small coleman lantern cylinder or 5 lb bottle in a pinch...I am curious.
This idea sounds awesome but the logistics of the fuel is a head scratcher. It would be a pain to have to fill from the trailer, especially if the tank is at 10 degrees from overnight chill and the sled tank is warmed up from a day of riding and sitting empty out in the sun. You would need a trailer tank heater or a propane pump and some time to kill. How do you check the fuel level while riding? What is the tank made out of? How much boost would it run at sea level, how would it adjust?
This idea sounds awesome but the logistics of the fuel is a head scratcher. It would be a pain to have to fill from the trailer, especially if the tank is at 10 degrees from overnight chill and the sled tank is warmed up from a day of riding and sitting empty out in the sun. You would need a trailer tank heater or a propane pump and some time to kill. How do you check the fuel level while riding? What is the tank made out of? How much boost would it run at sea level, how would it adjust?
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you fill the tank with liquid propane (just like a car) pull up to any service station that has automotive propane and filler up. the 4 stoke tanks have a site glass in them so you can always see what you have.
You can fill the tanks using pressure and height differential. But it is a PITA and takes time.
There is no reason why a 12 volt DC pump could not be developed.... Then you could fill your own tank at your trailer. But it would draw a lot of current and would need to obtain B149.5 approval to be legal for mobile use. And for sale for that matter. Just a little red tape....
There is no reason why a 12 volt DC pump could not be developed.... Then you could fill your own tank at your trailer. But it would draw a lot of current and would need to obtain B149.5 approval to be legal for mobile use. And for sale for that matter. Just a little red tape....
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Johnmaster
Well-known member
I can only imagine that the lp delivery trucks and filling stations have a method to bleed off the pressure from the bottle they are filling and put it back into the filling tank. If you try to force propane as a Liquid into an almost empty cylinder, the receiving tank gets warmer and the pressure increases substantially, once you cool the cylinder the vapor will condense and the pressure will drop back down again, but you would have to overcome that pressure to continue filling, or wait until the tank cools back down (or vent the excess pressure to atmosphere to achieve the same goal). Maybe they have a way of venting the excess pressure off of the receiving tank of the sled either into the atmosphere or back into the filling tank.
I just thought of the refrigeration tanks we used to recover A/C systems. They had two outlets, one drawing from the bottom of the tank, (liquid) and one drawing from the top of the tank. If you had two fittings in the storage tank in the trailer and two fittings in the receiving tank on the sled, you could equalize the pressure and fill as fast as liquid would travel through the hose under gravity.
I love the idea!!! Just trying to wrap my head around the logistics of it all, especially handling of the fuel. It is hard to find pump gas where I want to ride, let alone race gas or a retail propane station. The sled would become just a toy if I couldn't find a practical way to feed it. So many bonuses, I am curious to see what it would take to make it work.
I just thought of the refrigeration tanks we used to recover A/C systems. They had two outlets, one drawing from the bottom of the tank, (liquid) and one drawing from the top of the tank. If you had two fittings in the storage tank in the trailer and two fittings in the receiving tank on the sled, you could equalize the pressure and fill as fast as liquid would travel through the hose under gravity.
I love the idea!!! Just trying to wrap my head around the logistics of it all, especially handling of the fuel. It is hard to find pump gas where I want to ride, let alone race gas or a retail propane station. The sled would become just a toy if I couldn't find a practical way to feed it. So many bonuses, I am curious to see what it would take to make it work.
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Klimbing Kitty
Well-known member
Travis do you have a price for the conversion yet and for a brand new complete kit?
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Pure Logic Tuning
Well-known member
The propane sleds have shown after a month of riding that the fuel mileage is about the same as gas not 17% less if anything 17% better. You can get buddy tanks to increase the amount of propane you can pack. The stock seat can not be used it does not have enough room for the tank. The seat will be as good as the stock seat because we have liked the seat quite well also.
Liquefied Petroleum Gas (C3H8) contains roughly 17% less thermal energy by volume when compared with gasoline (C8H18)
I don't care how you burn it or what you run it in, you won't go as far......
Don't get me wrong; I am a huge proponent of anything propane powered, but the end user should be properly informed.
Hmmmmm, would that suggest that the turbocharged two stroke might be 17% more efficient on propane than on gas????? Another thought: the propane tank is 12 gal and my stock gas tank is not quite 11. That could account for 9% of the difference too??? I believe Travis would post exactly what he observed...explainable or not.
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SnowDevil
Well-known member
yammy what part of tonys post was defensive?? have a beer and read it again, everything was a question, possibly trying to understand 2 strokes and propane.
now that it burns 17% more fuel does it produce 17% more power? The last time I was around a propane vehicle it did not produce as much power as gas, does that change with boost and 2 stroke??
now that it burns 17% more fuel does it produce 17% more power? The last time I was around a propane vehicle it did not produce as much power as gas, does that change with boost and 2 stroke??
Most carbed propane conversions produced slightly less power due to the restrictive nature of the mixers, and the fact that vapor was occupying space in the intake air charge and therefore reducing the VE of the engine. With the injected propane engines we no longer have those issues and the power is virtually identical. A boosted sled, however, is a different animal.... under boost you can fully exploit the high octane of LP by cranking up both boost and static compression. I am pushing towards a liquid injection system due to the endothermic reaction of the liquid cooling the air charge as well as the fact that all gaseous fuels have higher octane ratings at lower temperatures. Hopefully we can see these becoming common in the near future!
The budget would definitely be higher, unfortunately.... but the potential of the system would go up hugely as well. I run a highly modified prototype injected (vapor) system on my race car and even with eight injectors we are at the outer limits of what the largest available injectors will flow. Now when you have a 2 (or 3) cylinder engine, you can pretty much count on running multiple injectors per cylinder to get the job done. Liquid injection, however, does not pose these limits and also eliminates some complexity with the loss of the vaporizer(s).
I don't want anyone here to take me the wrong way; I'm not a Yamaha guy in a Cat forum stirring it up- I'm a hard core sledder who happens to be in the propane business and would love nothing more than to see LP sleds out there kicking butt and doing it clean. I would buy a Cat in a second if it can prove to be reliable and (unlike my beloved yammys) lightweight.
I don't want anyone here to take me the wrong way; I'm not a Yamaha guy in a Cat forum stirring it up- I'm a hard core sledder who happens to be in the propane business and would love nothing more than to see LP sleds out there kicking butt and doing it clean. I would buy a Cat in a second if it can prove to be reliable and (unlike my beloved yammys) lightweight.
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Johnmaster
Well-known member
I think you are right that the nature of the engine burning the fuel more efficiently than gasoline might make it have closer to, if not equal or potentially better economy than on gasoline in this situation. Just because gasoline has 17% more BTU potential, it doesn't mean this engine configuration is releasing and using all of it. If liquid propane injection makes this combination burn its charge more efficiently, then it starts to make up for the 17% difference in a hurry.
I am excited to see what this would cost. I have been researching turbos this year and I am hoping to have one ready to go for next season. One of my problems is that I ride at 600 ft elevation most of the season and I want something I can turn down sufficiently to not have to buy a steady flow of race fuel when I am not in the mountains. I would probably fill my cylinder from my home tank (or get 100 lb cylinders if I dont have a liquid line). Plus, then it's only $1.69 per gallon!!!
I am excited to see what this would cost. I have been researching turbos this year and I am hoping to have one ready to go for next season. One of my problems is that I ride at 600 ft elevation most of the season and I want something I can turn down sufficiently to not have to buy a steady flow of race fuel when I am not in the mountains. I would probably fill my cylinder from my home tank (or get 100 lb cylinders if I dont have a liquid line). Plus, then it's only $1.69 per gallon!!!
you guys should start a new thread so that us without the membership can keep reading after post 75
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Pure Logic Tuning
Well-known member
The propane kit is done with testing after 1100 miles and no piston problems. We are finalizing the pricing this week. We have spent the last three weeks getting the throttle response equalivant to a injected sled. The sled is super crisp and runs just as hard on LP as it does on race gas and is alot cheaper to operate. The pricing on the seats from Boss came in today and we are just waiting on the tank pricing later today and we can start taking pre-season orders. We will also realease a conversion price for the people that have current turbo kits.
