Newbie Need Sledd(ing) advice

[sanity]

Hi I'm looking into taking the plunge into snowmobile ownership and need some advice on (1) whether this is the right time to do so and (2) what sleds to consider. Here's the deet's.

First, I'm wondering if sledding is something that I can do with my 7 year old from time to time. He wouldn't be driving, just riding. I have lots of big-boy hobbies and the only way this is going to be something that my wife is excited about I will need to be able to take my son. Is 7 too young to hang onto the back of the sled on trail rides? Could he ride in front of me or is that going to be annoying?

As far as which type of sled to get, from my own research I think my choices are something like a 2up touring sled or a crossover sled that has a reasonably long seat such that we can squeeze in together when 2up. I'm in my late 30s and 220lbs. I'm very much a Novice. I've rented snowmobiles 6 or 7 days and that is the extent of my experience. I will be riding primarily in Washington in the mountainous Cascades area. With my son we'd be sticking to the trails, but if I'm riding 1up I'd definitely want to be able to go off trail- I mean, nothing crazy but I like to challenge myself and have a good time.

So, should I wait until my kiddo is older to get into snowmobiling? If now is the time, would you suggest going with something designed for 1up riding or 2up riding? Honestly, I don't see many 2up sleds around here but I don't really know why (maybe because trail riding is less popular than riding the steeps here). Would appreciate any advice from those who have been there before!

 

[turbo99]

i started riding (driving) at 6

 

[the fix-it guy]

The right time is whenever your ready. I think your on the right track for a sled. Many sleds will also accept a 2 up seat. Some touring sleds will have heated hand holds for the passenger, keeping the little guy more comfortable.

 

[powderpilot]

Most of the people that double around here (Southern BC), ride with the kidlins or girlfriends up front on regular mountain sleds. Tough for the kids to hang on and for you to maneuver the sled with weight on the back. It would take some practice, but probably easier in the end if you're not riding a lot of trails, and they'll probably learn faster that way. I have friends that take out their 4 year old daughter and she stands on the running board on the brake-side and holds onto the mountain bar. Whatever works for you and gets you and your family out in the mountains is great!

 

[seth25]

Yes, most of the kids that I've seen riding with parents are in front. A buddy said that he had cut down an old pair of handlebars and mounted them to the steering post below the real handlebars for his kid to hold onto.

 

[Trax 2 Treadz]

Please please please do not ride with your kids in front of you. Remember force is equal to mass X acceleration. A few years back we ran into some people going down the trail with a child in front the Dad hit something on the trail he is not even sure what he hit, forced the child into the bars the child broke some ribs and his leg. The Dad felt terrible.It doesn't take much nor do you need to be going very fast. This works on the same principal as driving with your child in the front seat sitting on your lap.

 

[Skogen]

i started riding (driving) at 6

X2..

 

[mysledblows]

Round home in MN, daughter rides behind me (we have one of those seat jack thingies.) She's 10 now, but with MN laws she can't legally run her own machine on trails till she's 12 We were out in Cooke two years ago and she rode in front of me for two days. Took a little getting used to and there were a couple of instances where the extra 80 lbs was an issue, but we went/got to everywhere the rest of our group went. Buddy of mine that we were with use to live out there and rode that area every weekend so it's not like we just stuck to the trail. I say go for it.

 

[EricW]

Both my boys (now college age) were riding Yamaha Sno-Scoots at age 7. I built throttle limiters for them at the start, but in no time they could ride just about any trail. By age 10 or 11 they were riding Yamaha Phazers in Yellowstone. I think you'll have a ball with any winter activity that you do together.

With that said and not knowing your budget, you might also consider an ATV with tracks for the wintertime if you feel like you will spend most of your time 2 up. With the ATV you have a much more seasonal toy as well as the ability to pack some gear or tow a small trailer to do some camping, hunting, or just exploring. There are some great 2 up models and lots of youth choices for when he is ready. I would bet that some of his friends have ATV's already. You might ask around to see how many are sledding. It does add to the experience if you have good folks to go with no matter what the ride.

We have had a ball with sleds and ATV's and it would be a tough call for me if I had to choose just one. Just some food for thought.

I am on the east side at Kettle Falls, but if you want to bring him over to try some trail riding I'd be glad to take you out and let ya try a few different sleds and even a tracked ATV if you had any interest.

Good that you are planning for time spent together right now. No matter what he says today he will grow up and leave and you'll cherish every moment spent with him from that day on. You don't want any regrets once the house is quiet and empty. But, when that happens shoot me a pm and we'll talk Harleys, its not so bad. lol. Let me know. EW

 

[AKboondocker]

Riding with your kid at 6 or 7 is a perfect age to get them started. Here is a vid when I was riding with my kid at 6 years old.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ig68-Uhy_IQ

 

[Kordero]

sanity -

Take a look at sled2shred's Arctic Cat M8 setup. I don't know what seat he has but it has a backrest on it. You can see it in the Snowboard/Ski section and maybe dig up a pic of it on the Washington section.

I don't have any problem putting my wife or a buddy in front of me but wonder about the safety factor with my child in front of me zippin down a trail. Things happen ya know?

Here in Washington you will probably see a few more 2ups at places like Stampede Pass, Lake Wenatchee, Cle Elum area, or up at Chelan. In my experience I would recommend you taking your family riding on the east side of the mtns where trail riding is more the thing. Reason being is even shortly after grooming the trails on the wetter side of the mtns get whooped out real fast. The whoops are nothing but terrible for a 2up situation.

Couple questions for you
1. Has your son ridden a dirt bike or quad? Does he know how to operate something with a throttle? If so, he will likely get the hang of it real quick and have tons of fun.
2. Will it be a family thing... are you planning on buying a sled for both you and your wife?

 

[sanity]

Thanks for all the great input guys! It has spurred quite a bit of additional research on my end over the last few days. It sounds like now is the right time, just need to figure out what to get. On that front I think I'm more confused than I was before

So in Washington I understand you can't actually drive until you are 12, and we will be on public land. Otherwise we'd probably be having a different conversation. Sounds like if you guys were driving sleds at young age though he should be able to hang on and have a good time with me driving.

The idea of an ATV with tracks really threw me for a loop- never thought of that (will send you a PM EricW).

Kordero,
>1. Has your son ridden a dirt bike or quad?
No, this would be his first time on something like this. I ride a dual-sport motorcycle (Suzuki Vstrom), but he hasn't been out with me.

>2. Will it be a family thing... are you planning on buying a
>sled for both you and your wife?

Eventually I hope. The main issue is that I also have a son that is turning 3 next week and, while I think he'll have a ball in the future, he's still a bit young for a day of snowmobiling. So, normally Mom will be with him. We don't have family nearby so leaving the younger one for long periods of time is difficult to arrange.

 

[sanity]

Tracked ATV question

Does anyone know whether tracked ATVs EricW mentioned are even allowed on Washington snowmobile trails? Can't seem to find this info anywhere.

 

[dragon12]

I was in your shoes a few years ago thinking about the very same things you are now. I ended up buying two mountain sleds and the wife and I ride with them in front of us. I don't ride anywhere near the same terrain with the kids vs. without the kids. I always put them in front of me, and I understand the risks, but I don't like the idea of having them behind me trying to hold on. I rode behind my dad like that years ago and it scared the he!! out of me. I couldn't see where we were going and i always felt like I was falling off the back. It wasn't very enjoyable. The downfall having them in front of you is getting smacked in the face of your helmet by their helmet when you take off.

You need to keep a few things in mind.

1. Buy them warm clothes and pack an extra set just in case. Pack plenty of hand warmers and slip some in their boots. They will get cold easy and once they get cold your day will turn from fun to nightmare in two seconds.

2. Take plenty of snacks and goodies along and stop often to see if they need anything.

3. Buy the right protective equipment and make sure they are safe. Helmet, chest protector, beacon, etc... I didn't initially put them in chest protectors, but after reading a few horror stories, they wear them every ride now.

4. Be ready for your day to end early if the conditions aren't good. If your are in subzero temps or a whiteout, chances are your son will be miserable and ready to go home before the sled leaves the trailer.

It was tough finding people to ride with the first few rides but after awhile you will meet up with groups along the way that don't mind you bringing your son along. He may not want to make every trip as the early mornings and no cartoons on Saturday suck for a kid. You will have fun with them along. You won't be a sidehilling freak or get into the steepest terrain, but you will have fun and soon enough you will be shopping for a sled for your son. Good Luck!

 

[Trax 2 Treadz]

Our kids started out in the backpack.....we started riding with them when they were about a year. This kept them safe and cozy warm.



When they were about 3ish we moved them into child riding belts. The key here is they have to have the core body strength to stay up right. I use it for both my motorbike and sled.





Jan


PS WE have also learned how to keep baby food and bottles warm on a sled...LOL!

 

[AZ800]

Personally I'd skip the 4wheeler with tracks. 1st, teh tracks alone cost as much as a decent used sled. 2nd, I don't see those things getting very far off trail. 3rd, how the #%&#% would you get one unstuck if there's no tree to winch to?
Back to the kids. We've been taking our kids since they were 1-1/2 yrs old and 8 months old, respectively. The harness picture above is what we had for the 1st kid and it worked well...until we got the snowcoach to pull them in. Now that they're 7 and 4 I doubt the snowcoach will come out much this year, they don't like riding in that as much as on the machine since they're older. It would be perfect for your 3 y/o though, but they're not cheap, like $2500 new, found a used one for $1k and bet I'd make $ selling it.
3 y/o may be too small to take for a whole day except in guaranteed nice weather. The 7 y/o if he's used to the outdoors should be good all day. Dress them warm and you should have no problems.
Our kids ride in front of me quite often. The mountain bar makes for a nice kids handlebar and the Cat M sleds (particularly 05-06 models) have nice braces by the footwells that make good foot pegs for kids. Having the new 2010 Cat seats makes it easier too, b/c the seats are real narrow at the front. My 4 y/o can almost touch the footpegs with his sneakers on, so he should be able to get a grip on them this winter in his boots.
Both of your kids are plenty old enough to start enjoying the riding with you, but warning, they'll be addicted to it worse than you before long!
We had the little one out for full day rides in the snow coach before he was a year old. It keeps them warm. Now he's tough enough to spend the day outside unless it's inclement or really cold weather.
Regarding what sled to buy, that's a whole nother can of worms.
Personally, I'd stay away form the 2 up/touring sleds. They are heavy, typically underpowered at elevation and not very off trail worthy.
I have Cat's now and am happy with them. A M7 would be a good starter sled, good in the powder, decent power, reliable, easy to 2 up with a kid on board. Just make sure you do teh research on them first to see what mods you want to have (like the front arm relo bracket, etc) and which ones you don't want (twin pipes and NOS come to mind as not being very user friendly on a pull and go sled).
Just make sure you get teh kids out there. You will all have a blast!

 

[sanity]

Thanks AZ100!

Thought I'd give everyone the latest update. I talked myself out of the ATV with tracks. Checked with several places including the Washington State Parks Dept. and it seems that they aren't allowed most places I'd want to ride anyway. I must say that they look like lots of fun though.

So, for sleds I've been real confused but feeling like I’m getting closer. Thought about the 2-up trail types for a while, but as AZ100 said, they probably won't be as versatile as I'd like for the terrain around here. So, I started look at more of a crossover/mountain sled that is capable of taking on two riders. A couple models I’ve been batting around lately are:

• Something on a Skidoo Rev-XP platform, such as a Skidoo Renegade (like the Backcountry 800) or a Skidoo Summit (like an Everest 800) – while these sleds come with a pretty small seat the Ski-Doo catalog has two optional add-ons for 2 up riding. One basically adds length to the seat, while the other (1+1) is raised and can have a backrest and handles and all. I don't know why the sales guy at the Ski-doo dealership didn't let me in on this info- found out about it by reading a post in the forums and then checked the 2011 catalog.

• Arctic Cat Crossfire (800) - the seat is relatively long so it seems to be able to accommodate 2 up with a kid. Probably similar to the M7 mentioned by AZ100.

 

[KFD070]

Here's what you need

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phdtls68LJc

 

[powderpilot]

One more quick note... Make sure you get some solo time on your sled before you take your kid out. It's hard enough learning the sport without the extra responsibility of keeping your boy safe and warm... Nothing will prepare you for the backcountry like actual experience.

 

[AZ800]

sanity,
Yes, the X fire seat is the same as the M sleds' seats.
I've never ridden in WA, but I don't think a crossover sled is enough track if you want to get off trail much. Yeah I rode the crap out of a 136 track sled........until I got a 151 track. Waaaay better in the powder and not much worse on the trail.
At 220lbs you're big enough to easily throw around the longest track sleds around. Don't cut yourself short there, no pun intended!
Just look for the lowest mile, best maintained, longest tracked sled that fits your budget.
If you're talking XP's in the mix, then your budget allows for pretty much the best/latest iron from all the mfrs. Just do your homework (on here) first, b/c alot of sleds that would appear to be comparable, say 07 M8 and 09 M8, really aren't as close as you'd think. Just 2 years difference gets a far better/lighter rear suspension, worlds better track, electronic engine reverse, and a host of other smaller improvements.