New Poo VR is the old bait & switch fraud

[thefullmonte]

Diamondave,

Just to clarify I was not happy when I found out the situation I am in with the part number and labeling on the new updated VR.

I was over descriptive with the heading bait and switch fraud but I wanted everyone to take the time to see what is going on with the long wait and sought after new VR fix. I was pretty let down by Polaris to find the same part number.

Now we still can not confirm that there has been any update but I hope and want to believe that there is. The gal at Polaris west told me she has already had some actual ones that were not relabeled and had the correct part number on the part and she claims she was told that the update was only for a defective wire that had been failing.

Polaris west has 8 VR's on order right now and they are all spoken for she claims. I wish Polaris communicated better with it's dealers and customers. It is possible that these relabeled units have had this wire replaced midstream in the production or manufacturing process but with no marking changes there is no way to verify that muchness to track them.

If I offended anyone here with the old bait and switch fraud statement I apologize that I blew up I was frustrated and upset. I can also tell you I was a littlenout in left field now looking back at it but I really feel bad for all the dragon owners that have been left stalled in the hills and then had to spend there hard earned money for repairs when Polaris has not backed up there sleds due to well known and proven defects.

This thread did what you described. Don't feel too badly over the title. It got noticed and as a group we are now trying to get an answer. The VR has been and continues to be and area of concern with these sleds. I have spoken to numerous people who have had their vacations ruined by these things. You were able to bring a curious situation to everyone's attention. Other customers will likely look closer now too. Keep up the good work.

I think Polaris' line of communication with it's dealer network has been under some scrutiny for quite some time. It is hard to get straight answers. Often time us Snowesters know the answers to our questions or have a problem fixed before the dealer even knows one exists.

The problem with the VR is that it is designed to be the failsafe. I don't think we know if it is failing on it's own or if there is a deeper rooted problem that is destroying the VR. We have had discussions and have taken steps to try and protect them, but in the end there are a lot of unknowns. Might be worth giving this thread another read through. Protecting the ECU.

 

[milehighassassin]

You are blowing the moderator thing out of proportion. He is entitled to an opinion. He is not attacking anyone, he is not breaking any rules. He is simply saying he does not agree with you. Just because you are a paying member like 90% of everyone else on here does not mean he cannot say he thinks your theory is BS.

 

[R44guy]

New VR Update Info from Polaris

Ok, The Polaris Rep. has told the local dealer the relabeling on the box is normal operating procedure and that they are aware that the VR in that said box has the previous part number on it with no identification changes.

The rep. claims that these units have been updated in at at least 1 way of up to 3 optional or different ways?

1. The 1st way is that there a wire that has been replaced or updated.

2. The 2nd way is that they can reuse the entire case and replace the inner guts.

3. The 3rd way is that they some how reflash or reprogram them.

I also think this conspiracy thing has slightly got out of hand. We are all on this forum to help each other out and to share info and not to rip on everyone.

I also do not see how any of these changes that polaris has made to this new VR are going to lower the actual excessive heat or temp. that this unit heats up to?

 

[KAWGRN]

You are blowing the moderator thing out of proportion. He is entitled to an opinion. He is not attacking anyone, he is not breaking any rules. He is simply saying he does not agree with you. Just because you are a paying member like 90% of everyone else on here does not mean he cannot say he thinks your theory is BS.

Yeah it would have been nice for you to give Gus Bohne the same courtesy!!!

 

[94fordguy]

Very interesting thread, I look forward to seeing if the new number turns out to be a good fix or not. Not sure I would call it a conspiracy personally, it does sound rather odd, but I can understand internal changes and testing possibilities.... hard to say for certain. Bottom line - I just really hope this solves your guys' electrical night-mares.


On a different note now,


Lets all try to be mindful that we are all individuals here and we all have different opinions and ways in which we express them. We need to respect everyone's opinions here even if we do not agree with them.

Now please, everyone carry on with your findings

 

[R44guy]

RMK2112,

Thanks for the info, and there is no offense taken from you or diamondave. I dont know where the conspiracy theory came from but who cares.

I do appreciate all of the information we are able to share to be a member. I think we are all to quick to judge but it certainly makes life interesting sometimes when we do not play well with others.

 

[milehighassassin]

Yeah it would have been nice for you to give Gus Bohne the same courtesy!!!

And how have I mis-treated Gus?

I have zero issues with Gus, you must have me confused for someone else. I just had Gus do some work for me.

 

[edgexcsp]

Ok, The Polaris Rep. has told the local dealer the relabeling on the box is normal operating procedure and that they are aware that the VR in that said box has the previous part number on it with no identification changes.

The rep. claims that these units have been updated in at at least 1 way of up to 3 optional or different ways?

1. The 1st way is that there a wire that has been replaced or updated.

2. The 2nd way is that they can reuse the entire case and replace the inner guts.

3. The 3rd way is that they some how reflash or reprogram them.

I also think this conspiracy thing has slightly got out of hand. We are all on this forum to help each other out and to share info and not to rip on everyone.

I also do not see how any of these changes that polaris has made to this new VR are going to lower the actual excessive heat or temp. that this unit heats up to?

At least Polaris has an answer. The first two I can see making a difference but I am not sure how you reflash a voltage regulator?

 

[R44guy]

Edgexcsp,

Good question, I had never heard of reflecting a VR but that is what the Polaris factory warranty rep told the dealer but it sounds off to me but who knows with technology these days?

 

[dub]

When the XP came out how long did the average ($180) clutch belt last?
How many pistons did the Rev go through? Did the M7's bog ever get fixed? How much stuff got melted by the first M8's?

Half the people complaining in the Polaris section don't even own a Polaris.

I have ran my 2009 Assault for over 700 miles with no issues. We have had 4 Dragons/Assaults, not one of them has had any REAL issue. Actually 5 IQ's if you count the 700 Dragon as well and now 2 Pro's. The only issue we have had is the pipe's EGT sensor, and I think that is self inflicted with the use of race gas. I wouldn't say the PCV is a MUST have, it certainly helps. I have one but have been running the stock map with great success.




Again, EVERY sled has it's issues. Yamaha has probably been more problem free but until they make a sled that has less weight and the same HP, then I won't consider them.

Kind of a hijack here but....

Dude, I have been standing exactly where you were at in the begining with an 09 D8, saying I don't know what ya'll are b!tchin' about.... at about 800 miles my pipe sensor went out too, then at 1,800 the entire motor grenaded! Now we are on the 3rd go around. You hang on to the dragon long enough and you will buy motors! I have run PCV and everything else, so please don't say I should have tried this, ect.

This is not just an XP or M belt, or broken bulkhead. This is a 3-5K burndown, depending on when you catch it for which Polaris has no fix! Further they don't even make us feel like they are working on anything to help us.

Funny part is I don't even own my D8 anymore, sold it to a friend and now am scrambling to help him (while he is still a friend). I bought a Pro and wish I haden't, only because I think the customer base in not being treated fairly. BTW I own an 09 700, that I am worried about too!

 

[mountainhorse]

I don't recall hearing of many 2007 Dragon VR failures?

That part was number 4011731 which is no longer available and the superseded part number is 4012930 as well so they are interchangeable.

To me, This is not a problem of the remainder of the system but of a vendor supply issue to Polaris of the voltage regulators...

I agree something is fishy, but when you plug in Corporate/warranty/recall and public perception of brand quality to the equation it can get sticky.

I've been digging on this from all angles and have not been able to find out anything.

In the end, all that the customers want to do is ride their sled without fear of being stranded in the back country... I get that.

I can tell you that Polaris is ACUTELY aware of this issue and I hope to see them offer a solution to this issue in a public way that shows that they "got your back"

 

[xc6rider]

Ok. New VR just showed up.

Same thing, but some different #'s.

Relabled box, just as found above. But the box had been opened and resealed. Whether it was opened and something done to the VR, unknown.

Part number is the same, but the numbers below the part # are different.

OLD VR 9G 16 is below the part # of 4012476

New VR OA 29 is below the part# of 4012476

Testing them both now.

 

[xc6rider]

I'll spend a little more time to post up my #'s from testing them. But initially, the only real difference I'm seeing between the two VR's is the resistance between the Yellow wires. Same goes with the Orange wires.

New VR has around 3 times the resistance that the bad one has.


I really wish I had tested everything before I rode the sled to see if anything changed on the "bad" VR. So far nothing is testing as if anything is "FRIED"

If anything, I've lost resistance internally on the Yellow and Orange wires with the "bad" one...

 

[mountainhorse]

I belive that those are simple date codes.

 

[mountainhorse]

The evolution of the voltage regulator part #'s for the CFi -4 engines from 2007-2011 went as follows (to the best of my knowledge). I will not speculate why these were changed... only the numbers and relative dates.

2007 …Supplied with #4011731 Voltage Regulators
2008… Supplied with #4011731 Voltage Regulators
2009… Supplied with #4012476 Voltage Regulators (at this time all 1731 replacement regulators were superseded to this part number)
2010… Supplied with #4012476 Voltage Regulators
2011… Supplied with #4012930 Voltage Regulators (only installed in the CFi-4-600’s) (at this time all 2476 replacement regulators were superseded to this part number)

In 2011, the CFi-4’s in 800 were changed out in the PRO-Ride but the CFi-4 in the 600 remained… for the 2011 season, the CFi-4-600 was supplied with the new 4012930 voltage regulator.

Just this season (2011)… the REPLACEMENT regulators for all the 2007-2010 cfi-4’s were superseded in part number to the #4012930 Regulators at the same time that the 2011 M.Y. production-parts were being sourced.

The country of origin on these parts is Japan… I truly doubt that a pallet(s) of these were shipped back to get hogged-out and had new internals installed….It would have been cheaper to scrap them and order more because of shipping costs and lead time issues.

The updated REGULATOR,V7 SDI,AAA (#4012930) was made, as far as I can tell, by the same supplier in Japan, Kokusan Denki, as the 4012476/4011731 units. (scroll down on the link page for pix)

The reason that I’m hearing for this part number confusion is that Kokusan was not aware of the new part number and treated it as a “running change” to the existing part number/part…This is the purported reason for the old number on the “new”, updated, regulators that bear the ink-stamp part number 4012476.

Supposedly, the part number, as shown in parts fiche's and the labels on the boxes, was changed by Polaris AFTER Polaris received the shipment of #4012930 2011 600 CFi-4 Production-sled and replacement-parts from Kokusan Denki.

One of the numbers printed on the regulator other than the part number is the build date… after a certain build date, all the Units stamped "4012476" were supposedly updated to the new 4012930 specifications internally.

IMO...This is a very plausible explanation for the concerns that started this thread and could explain why the VR's from the parts department marked "4012476" are actually the correct parts.

Kokusan Denki , I believe, is the manufacturer and co-developer of the CFi systems in the sleds... I believe that they manufacture most of the electrical components in these sleds… ECU’s, Regulator/rectifier, stators, IAT sensors, flywheels, coils, crank-triggers, Relays, software support etc. http://www.kokusandenki.co.jp/english/products/products7.html

Kokusan Denki is known for the high quality of their parts and innovation in the field.

In 2011, On the PRO model CFi-2-800's, Polaris went back to the “divorced” regulator and rectifier setup as found on the 2009 600 CFi-2’s… which would make more sense as far as dependability of the system and minimizing heat related issues. … using the same voltage regulator (exact same part number) as they have been using since the 2003 340 Edge sleds... with a separate rectifier assembly attached to the belt guard in front of the oil bottle.

I’m pleased that Polaris did not decide to go with the Integrated ECU that combines the ECU/Regulator/rectifier assembly into one unit.

http://www.polarisindustries.com/en...peOnline/PolarisHistorical/HIstoricalFuji.htm
D. NEGATTA AND KOKUSAN DENKI
D.Nagata and Kokusan Denki have been instrumental in the development of Polaris ATV, snowmobile and side-by-side engines that deliver outstanding performance, reliability and durability. As a major business partner of Kokusan, D.Nagata has used its vast international business expertise to bring together Kokusan and the Polaris Powertrain group, two parties with a shared product goal. Kokusan has invested in successful new product development and is a first choice supplier of electrical components used on Polaris engines. These components include sophisticated Engine Control Units, ignition controls, engine controls, flywheel stators and many more. Kokusan products have allowed the Polaris Powertrain team to develop engines that deliver exceptional performance, efficient operation and long-riding reliability in off-road environments. In addition, Kokusan personnel provide on-site technical support in Polaris design, development and assembly facilities to ensure the application, fit and function of their products. D.Nagata and Kokusan Denki have contributed greatly as Polaris has developed industry-leading performance in numerous vehicles.

 

[TimG]

Not to hijack, but what happened to the fellow who was testing temps on the VR? Seemed like he was on to something with his fan setup. Was there any more progress on this front?

 

[R44guy]

Just as a update here after my VR failed and before it burned up my ecu, I unplugged the 3 orange wires from the VR to the ecu and the sled ran fine and all of the lights and gauges worked fine. The ecu did not smell burned and the back of it was bot bubbled or distorted from being hot.

When the new VR was installed the sled still did not have lights ar the dash display working. After switching the headlight from low beam to high beam the sled stalled and the top of the ecu got very hot and it was then burned up. I am unsure if this is the normal type of failure nut it was not what I expected. FYI

 

[xc6rider]

Just as a update here after my VR failed and before it burned up my ecu, I unplugged the 3 orange wires from the VR to the ecu and the sled ran fine and all of the lights and gauges worked fine. The ecu did not smell burned and the back of it was bot bubbled or distorted from being hot.

When the new VR was installed the sled still did not have lights ar the dash display working. After switching the headlight from low beam to high beam the sled stalled and the top of the ecu got very hot and it was then burned up. I am unsure if this is the normal type of failure nut it was not what I expected. FYI

Any new uptdate with this yet?

I got my new VR installed and put on 60 or 70 miles yesterday, sled never missed a beat.

 

[R44guy]

XC6,

Good to know your back up and running, Did you ever make any conclusive findings on your VR testing? Thanks for your feed back here.

 

[HUNDO]

So has anyone actually gotten a new regulator with the update number printed on it? I checked with both my local dealers today and everything they had on the shelf was a relabeled box and a VR with the old number inside. Of course they had no idea, and also had no explanation.

I need a new one and would much rather have the newest number (not that I'm sure it makes a difference), but if the reboxed version is the only thing available, I guess I will have to settle.

Also, does anyone have the test procedure/numbers for the VR and possibly the stator?

Thanks....