New 2012 mounts in a 2011- motor still moving around

[Murph]

Installed 2012 motor mounts in 2011.

Looks like sleeves that rubber bushings go into are excessively worn. With bolts tightened to 40 ft/ lbs you can move engine by hand and see that there is play between new motor mount rubber and sleeves. Anyone else see this? There are noticeable grooves in motor mount sleeves that rubbers ride in.


Was thinking I had a bad torque arm bushing or loose bolts on bottom engine straps, looks like now the sleeves are excessively worn. The sleeves are sold installed in the:
13 1017942 ASM-BRACE LOWER LH | [Requires Adhesive][Incl. Sleeve] $36.89

Price is easy, heating old adhesive and re installing new adhesive doesn't sound like fun.

Anyone else come across this?

2500 boondocking miles on sled, no jumps, completely stock motor....

Thanks,
Murph

 

[theultrarider]

We are seeing several 2011's that are having the bolts fall out that go through the motor straps into the bottom of the cases. The bitch about that is you must basically pull the motor out to check them. Good luck. Curt at fastrax has seen quite a few as well.

 

[Murph]

Motor strap bolts falling out

Ive been following the threads regarding the motor strap bolts. I was hoping that was my problem. Pulling the motor isn't that bad, but doing the adhesive is going to suck.

I can lift up on my motor by hand and see no movement between motor and strap, but I can see the excess play in the rubber bushings to the sleeves as the motor and straps move together.

Just wondering if anyone else is seeing this?

 

[Aussie Niko]

Hay Murph, wonder if you could remove the rubber bushes that are loose and build them back up a little with a Polyurethane Adhesive/Sealer like sikaflex. Pushed back in they may tighten up.

Will have to come for a ride come Feb when I'm back in Tahoe too.

Niko.

 

[pura vida]

murph, i also replace my motor mounts with the 2012 update. when i did it, i did put my calipers on both and although i don't remember the exact numbers the 2012 rubbers were slightly larger. but insignificantly so, and now that the new ones have some use on them i'm guessing the difference would be zero. after all the motor strap issues i just went though (other threads) everything seems to be much better but i agree there is still more movement than what i would prefer. mine doesn't sound nearly has bad as yours, as i don't have any groves in the metal surrounding the rubbers, but i want them to be tight. i was surprised how easily they side in, even when new. if i can see them move just when i'm pulling up and down on my y-pipe, how much movement is there when you throw 150 hp at it under heavy load?? i would prefer my motor not move at all, have the clutches aligned perfectly, and have my way too expensive belts last much longer. (think yamaha. but i'm not with the weight penalty ) unfortunately that is not how things are and my only guess as to why is to lessen the amount of overall vibration the rest of the sled is exposed too from the motor. vibration is bad and even though a rigidly mounted motor would allow belts to last longer there are other issue i believe would come up. ie., bolts falling out of the motor straps... or worse. my thought, and something i have considered, is cutting a small piece of aluminum and wrap it around the rubber causing the seal to be tighter. (think thin sheets, as in beer or red bull cans) you would probably have to replace the strips once in a while but it might tighten everything up a bit? don't know though, haven't tried it. also, if the metal is actually grooved, and you have an extended warranty, i would think that could easily be a warranty item and the dealer (if you have a good one) could replace those for you so you don't have to mess with it? good luck. sorry for my long winded thought process...

pv

 

[Clarke673]

Curt at fastrax has a billet mount that solves all thease issues. IMO, pulling the moter out is a pain in the ***. Might as well do it right hte first time.

 

[pura vida]

yup, sounds like curt has a nice product. but at $730+ shipping (insignificant at that point) it is pretty damn expensive. but i'm still considering it... maybe next year?

 

[Clarke673]

yup, sounds like curt has a nice product. but at $730+ shipping (insignificant at that point) it is pretty damn expensive. but i'm still considering it... maybe next year?

to be fair i thought it was more around $500, that is expensive. My mods this season will resemble this list somewhat

CMX belt drive/drop and roll
custom chromolly running bords/bumpers
power addiction head/pipe/can/powercomander
fastrax clutch kit
series 5.1 155 track modded with track screws
wahl antirachet drivers
2.30ish final gear ratio
and i have some fox evols collecting dust that would sure look nice on the front.


But mods need other mods to work well, or work great. I don't care if you have 300 hp at the crank, if your engine is moving around and your clutching is off/inconcistant, your going to be waisting all your money!There for, thanks for the heads up on the new mounts not being much/any better. Now i know i probubly need to buy the engine mount as well!

 

[Murph]

The Fastrax mount will help I'm sure.....BUT

It still uses the four stock mounting holes (in addition to two additional) if the sleeves are worn out, the 2012 bushing will still move around.

After loosening all four motor mounts simultaneously, I noticed that the bottom side deformations (of the rubber inserts) are reduced and the rubber inserts seem to fill the sleeves a little better.

Right now I'm playing with the two torx under the mag side bulkhead, going to try and get the Polaris clutch alignment tool as close to 0.000" on the backside of the secondary and see if that helps the rubbers sit more uniformly. Then I'll tighten down evenly working in a circle according to the 2012 mount instructions until I hit the required 40 ft/lbs.

PV-- I thought about "shimming" the sleeves also-- I was thinking of using cut up feeler gauges instead of aluminum. Figured I could get a really snug fit. Based on the grooves I have in my sleeves, the rubber mount don't move rotationally inside the sleeves..

 

[mountainhorse]

Not the mounts

Murph... I've been waiting for your post since the torque arm thread.

Although the new kit (bolts and #19 & 21)will help to limit movement... They are NOT the actual "mounts" for the motor...Those are #11, #15, #20.

Being able to move your motor around that much would be a problem with a mount being shot, bolts #6/14 being broken or loose, or bolts #13 being loose.

Your worn out sleeves would have been caused by the looseness or failure of the above.

That support is a PITA to replace... simple work... but more time than you are banking on.

Have you had the motor out yet??

.

 

[Murph]

No broken bolts. All seemed torqued to spec upon removal.

Torque arm bushing feels similar to new one.

Brought the sled home to Santa Cruz thinking I was going to pull the motor and check the bolts underneath. Honestly, never occurred to me that rubber bushings could wear down the sleeves so bad. Lifting on the mag side with my hand and shining a flashlight at the mounts, I can see the rubber moving inside the sleeves. The motor and straps moving in unison. I was able to get a .012 feeler gauge between the rubber bushing and sleeve.

Talked to service department at Thin Air (awesome dealership) in Truckee.They haven't come across this issue. Will drop off tomorrow morning and show them what I found. They will make warranty inquiry for me.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[pura vida]

definitely keep us posted. i can say having all of your bolts in the motor strap and having them tight make a big difference in how the sled runs, proved that today...

nope, i was quoted $730 for the complete setup with the extra two mounting points. i think it was closer to 500 if you didn't go with the extra two mounts but that seems kinda like a waste at that point.

pv

 

[Rocketboy]

Is there a part number for a kit for the 2012 mounts for the 2011 or do I just order all of the 2012 rubbers and bolts? Call 2 dealers yesterday and neither knew of a kit and neither of them had the 2012 stuff on hand.....

I could lift the mag side of the motor up about 3/8". I checked the bolts under the straps on that side and they were tight. All mounts seem to be tight and not broken. This sled has about 525 miles on it so I am figuring it needs new mounts...... hope that helps!!

Thanks for all the help since I have switched to Poo.

 

[Murph]

From Mountainhorse

"Ask and receive...

The part number for the upgrade of MY 2010/11 Pro Chassis sleds is MY12 2204633, ENGINE MOUNT BOLT ISOLATOR KIT

This kit will include 4 bolts (#12) and the radial rubber inserts (#19 & #21)

This will be able to be installed with the motor in the sled.

This kit is NOT a warranty update for your 2011.

Yes, there have been some broken motor mounts, but this has not been a wholesale problem.

IMO... it is great that we are able to keep our past MY sleds up to date with new MY technology.

I believe that IF you have your sled at the dealership currently for broken motor mount bolts on a 2011, that the dealers will be upgrading to this new kit....But this is speculation on my part.

The street price on the kit is $68 and your dealers should be able to order this now. "








.

 

[Rocketboy]

Thanks Murphy- Got your PM as well!!

Have a great day!!

 

[Rocketboy]

Price has gone up!! They must have figured out that they will be selling lots of these!!

They are now $79.99 and the dealer told me that it looks like they are more than that now but the price has not changed on his computer yet but on the parts list it has...... not sure if that is possible.

Thanks for the help!!

 

[mountainhorse]

Murph.... what are your thoughts on the parts pointed out in this post?

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2918911&postcount=10












.

 

[Murph]

Every bolt encountered was tight including the ones you pointed out-- with the POSSIBLE exception of mag side motor straps. I could reach PTO side bolts with motor installed, couldn't reach mag side. Did not remove engine when rubber sleeve clearance was observed.

However, when observing motor movement(engine not running) by hand, motor straps and motor move together.

2012 rubber mounts are observed moving within the sleeves on both mag side and PTO side-- with no deflection of rubber until it contacts the opposite side of the sleeve when it is moved. You can insert a .012" feeler gauge between the rubber and sleeve n the PTO rear side. PTO front-- the smallest of all the rubbers-- seems to be affected the least.

The 2011 Pro is now sitting at Thin Air Motorsports (great dealer) service dept awaiting word from Polaris on how to proceed.

Will keep you posted as I get more info.

 

[targhee77]

loose motor

i have a 2011 pro , about 770 miles.
after reading this thread, i noticed i can lift my primary almost a 1/4" with very little effort. yes i can see the front side smallest size of the four rubber inserts moving in the hole. start the motor and rev it up a bit
and i can see it moving up and down.
i'll be taking it to the dealer tuesday afternoon.

 

[targhee77]

motor mounts

got my pro back from the dealer today. they said that there are now broken or loose mounts, nothing they can see wrong. we tried lifting the primary clutch on 3 sleds with fewer miles than mine and none of them move at all. they did show me one sled from last year that yes seemed to have the same movement as mine( a sled they are trying to sell)
the bottom line is that polaris knows that the 2011 rubber bushings have issues with wearing out and becoming loose, and that the motor mounts have issues.
they have not issued any recalls because they know it would cost them a ton of money.
i would encourage everyone with a pro to keep a close eye on this as motor movement surely affects clutch alignment, power transfer-rpms- and belt life.....
what do we do?