Need help with frozen waterline.......

[EricW]

I need some ideas Snowesters. I have been battling a frozen water line for over a week now. Froze at the well casing 4' down then ran about 10' across soil then another 50' or so under blacktop driveway to the house. I have exposed the short distance between the well casing and the edge of the blacktop. The line is 1" PVC. I opened up that 1" line and began forcing in some lengths of 1/2" CPVC with hot water from a pressure washer running through it. Worked like butter for 45' until I got to a 90* elbow where the line changes direction. I have been stalled at that elbow but still running the hot water since last night with no/little progress.

From that elbow there is a frost free spicket 5' away then I to the house. I have air in the house and the 1" water line is clear to the frost free from the house. I'm guessing I have 3 to 5 feet of freeze from the elbow to the frost free and I would be set.

Anyone have any ideas what I could hook to the 1/2" CPVC that would pass through the 1" 90 degree elbow and allow hot water to run through it. I have tried 3/8 braided plastic, some clear hard plastic, and some kind of black brake line for big trucks. Keep on mind this 90 I'm trying to get around is 45 feet under a paved driveway.

Any pipe, wire, chemical, or other ideas that might clear the last few feet of ice past the elbow and keep me from jumping off the bridge. Any suggestions or ideas are appreciated. I should have been riding all week, this is crap. EW

 

[KSH]

Start using a salt water brine, then surge the water to give a wave like effect

 

[m8braaaap]

Put a 90 on the 1/2" pipe and wittle it down so it fits in the 1".this is just to get the water to change direction at the 1" 90. I've done this before and it worked for me.

 

[KSH]

Put a 90 on the 1/2" pipe and wittle it down so it fits in the 1".this is just to get the water to change direction at the 1" 90. I've done this before and it worked for me.

How do you know what way it is facing when it's in the 90?

 

[m8braaaap]

Just rotate it around.works good

 

[EricW]

Looks like to make a 1/2" 90 fit I will cut it to almost a 45 but I'll give it a spin when I get back. I'll glue it on and index the feeder pipe as I go to know spray direction. Thanks guys. Keep the ideas coming, haven't pooped in 10 days, feel like I need to get this fixed today......lol. EW

 

[m8braaaap]

In 45' your index will prolly not be acurate due to the flexing 1/2" pipe.but should get ya close

 

[KSH]

Looks like to make a 1/2" 90 fit I will cut it to almost a 45 but I'll give it a spin when I get back. I'll glue it on and index the feeder pipe as I go to know spray direction. Thanks guys. Keep the ideas coming, haven't pooped in 10 days, feel like I need to get this fixed today......lol. EW

Why haven't you just hooked it up over the ground from the hydrant until you get this thawed?

 

[EricW]

Why haven't you just hooked it up over the ground from the hydrant until you get this thawed?

Will be -10 F or so tonight and colder in the next few. I would have to put the submersible pump back in the well casing then up out of 6' ditch and over pavement to a frost free. The house operates with a pressure tank and starter switch for the pump. The pump only runs so often to recharge the pressure tank. Even if a left a small trickle going it could be 60 mins or more that water would not be moving outside the house. I know I am clear from inside the house to the frost free because air passes easily. I worry that if I temp a line on the house side of the frost free it could pull some of the cost from the freeze blockage and make the freeze move toward the house. I hope that makes sense.

 

[KSH]

Will be -10 F or so tonight and colder in the next few. I would have to put the submersible pump back in the well casing then up out of 6' ditch and over pavement to a frost free. The house operates with a pressure tank and starter switch for the pump. The pump only runs so often to recharge the pressure tank. Even if a left a small trickle going it could be 60 mins or more that water would not be moving outside the house. I know I am clear from inside the house to the frost free because air passes easily. I worry that if I temp a line on the house side of the frost free it could pull some of the cost from the freeze blockage and make the freeze move toward the house. I hope that makes sense.

This is my occupation.

I have been thawing frozen lines for a two months now, I have 5 homes that are now ran over the top of the ground for various reasons.

I read your post wrong, if you want water, totally bypass your buried line.
You will need to keep water running, what we do is drill a 1/8" hole in a electrical slug and install it in a garden hose that is discharging the water to a ditch.
You will have to do this even if you get it thawed or it will freeze again.

If you are sure of where it is frozen and it is only 4' deep, build a bond fire over that area. It will pull the frost out fairly quickly.

 

[Blu Du]

what I always did was drill a 1/4" hole in the drop pipe and you don't have to worry about heat tape or letting water run. water will always be running one way or the other in the temp line

 

[Blu Du]

This is my occupation.

I have been thawing frozen lines for a two months now, I have 5 homes that are now ran over the top of the ground for various reasons.

I read your post wrong, if you want water, totally bypass your buried line.
You will need to keep water running, what we do is drill a 1/8" hole in a electrical slug and install it in a garden hose that is discharging the water to a ditch.
You will have to do this even if you get it thawed or it will freeze again.

If you are sure of where it is frozen and it is only 4' deep, build a bond fire over that area. It will pull the frost out fairly quickly.

WTF is a electrical slug? did you read his post? it is froze under the driveway next to the house

 

[KSH]

WTF is a electrical slug? did you read his post? it is froze under the driveway next to the house

A slug is the knock out on a control box.

I'm reading it is frozen between the hydrant and well and I'm assuming there is room between the hydrant and driveway.


I help people until I'm told I'm wrong, I now have been.
Good luck.

 

[801]

hope ya got the water line going~

 

[EricW]

I really appreciate all the help you guys are offering. This thing has been a real pain that has taken way too long. I have learned a few things along the way though and I have not paid a nickel for books or tuition. Education is expensive these days and the School of Hard Knocks is still pretty cheap comparably. lol.

I probably should have added that I have had a ground thaw machine running over top for a few days. This machine runs a hot 180* glycol solution through 3/4" hose and cycles back to itself to be reheated. You lay out many runs of hose over ground above the pipe and then cover with heat blankets or tarps and just let it do its thing. Challenge for me has been I don't know exactly where my line is. I had it borrowed for a time between the contractor needing it but it had to go back. I am not sure how effective it was through the asphalt since that is where my remaining blockage is.

I will try to attach a layout drawing that might make more sense than my descriptions but photobucket is down and I am computer challenged.



Ha.....it worked. So I labeled everything alphabetically. A is the well casing and the last one is J which is in the detail of the plumbing inside the house. One thing I have not figured out for sure is this. In the plumbing detail you see a couple stacked valves F & G. Valve F is a one way flapper valve that seems to be installed backwards to the system flow. Since I am running a pressure tank with pressure switch for the pump I am thinking that valve F is there to allow the outside frost free bib E to bleed pressure from the system even though it is outside so when open it will reduce pressure and activate the pump even though it is outside. Does this make sense? Valve G looks to be possibly some sort of anti back flow or my employee thought it was an agitator type thing that would be used with the other inside tanks to treat the high iron content. He thought it helped to suspend the particles so the tank filtration would work better. I have pics if photobucket were up.

So here is where I left it. We forced hot water through a 1/2" cpvc line inside the 1" supply line from B on the drawing to a suspected 90 at C. I let hot water run to that point overnight with no results. I have an air compressor at 40psi connected in the house at the hose bib H. If the freeze were to clear the air should pass through the open pipe back to B correct? Right now the compressor is holding 40psi at H. I pumped in RV antifreeze to the 1" supply line at B until it was running back out solid pink. I capped the 1" line at B and put it back down in the excavated ditch between the well casing A and the asphalt border. Put an electric heater in the ditch and covered the ditch with plywood and tarps and left. We are expecting sub zero for the next few days so I plan to wait that out then look into the temp line options.

Would you guys trust a temp line with heat tape over the driveway from point B to point E ant the frost free. is there any damage I could do to the frost free E by running water backward through it to supply the house? Thanks again for all help. I know giving advice in these situations and online takes time to do. I appreciate it. EW

 

[stum1967]

I had a similar problem a few years back. We ran a heat tape along a garden hose from the house next door for a couple of months. We put that large grey foam pipe insulation over the hose and heat tape and sealed all the seams with duct tape. We still left the faucet in the house trickle a little just to be sure it wouldn't freeze. If a person isn't riding sled, winter just plain sucks.

 

[EricW]

I was just at the local ranch supply place kickin around and I see that they have heated garden hose now. Has an integrated self controlling thermostat. Looks like a good idea. Thanks. EW

 

[AZ800]

So Bludu is a d-bag. Who starts an argument bout someone asking a question for help????? Tard

EricW, you won't hurt a frost free yard spigot by running water backwards through it. The only thing that makes it "frost free", is the valve is all the way at teh bottom and when shut off, there is a hole in the bottom of the riser that lets the water drain out into a gravel bed it should be bedded in.

FWIW, in the future, use copper for underground runs. If it freezes, you can thaw it using a welding machine easily if it freezes.

 

[m8magicandmystery]

on the 1/2 inch pvc you could adapt 5 feet of 1/2 inch rehau /pex on the end of it and gently work the pipe forward with the warm water running...

The rehau /pex should make the 90 bend and not kink with just warm water..you could even put a short drain line snake lead on the front of it to facilite the 90..

 

[m8magicandmystery]

ps...we run mostly well drop line all the way to the home from the wells with heat trace..and yes you can run your home easily through the hose bib,we had to do it from house to house in subdivisions that was getting new infrasturcture

We find that often copper splits when frozen so we don't use it under any earth....