NEED HELP to get my turbo m8 running!

[ondast]

Okey. Did ask this in my other thread but need more input and Help!

I was testing my sled first time last sunday.
Good things: It was running. I had boost.

Bad things: The EGT was flashing red after 60 seconds

I stoped testing and went home to try to figure something out and to read the Attitude instructions a bit more.

Then I went to test a little more at tuesday.

Changed the EGT red zone to 1200F. Changed settings on the Attitude box to be around 4-5 and 7 on green/blue mode. This should be rich!

Went out and test. EGT was flashing red after 1 minute or so. Again.
And I was hearing a bad pattering sound when I hit the throttle.. Detonation???
Drove back to the garage and toke the sparkplugs out. They wasn't white but very light brown. Lean but not to lean to deto I think. With my Attitude box settings the sled should be running rich, not lean?

Fuelpresure is 40 psi at idle.
Running 50/50 premium pumpgas and 110 MON octane fuel.
Altitude is about 1000-1500 feet.
Outside temp was -12F tuesday.

ANY HELP IS APPRECIATED!!

 

[mt_archery_guy]

How much boost?

 

[ondast]

How much boost?

Don't know for sure, About 10psi I think.

 

[jgw50]

Try cranking other settings on the attitude box. Most notably the red setting, and the blue/green mode even higher.

Validate fuel pressure at idle and under boost.

Validate actual boost. You should know this for sure. No guessing. If your much over 10 lbs on a pump gas kit (two injectors), you could just be running out. If you have a race gas kit (4 injectors) and still not getting enough fuel then its probably fuel pressure reg, or fuel pump.

If your running pump gas at 10 lbs, it could just be the gas.

If you don't know your boost, and its really 20 lbs, you need to either lower boost, or increase octane, fuel, and probably engine internals to be reliable?

First course of action: Figure out what boost your running and put some good gas in it ( I like Avgas)

Second course of action, totally load up the attitude settings and see if you can even get it to run rich.

Third course of action: Check fuel delivery: Secondary injectors, fuel pressure, fuel reg, fuel pump, etc...

 

[jensen]

Fuel pressure

Did you verify that your fuel pressure is coming up with boost? You did remember to block off the stock fuel pressure regulator correct?

 

[ondast]

Try cranking other settings on the attitude box. Most notably the red setting, and the blue/green mode even higher.

Validate fuel pressure at idle and under boost.

Validate actual boost. You should know this for sure. No guessing. If your much over 10 lbs on a pump gas kit (two injectors), you could just be running out. If you have a race gas kit (4 injectors) and still not getting enough fuel then its probably fuel pressure reg, or fuel pump.

If your running pump gas at 10 lbs, it could just be the gas.

If you don't know your boost, and its really 20 lbs, you need to either lower boost, or increase octane, fuel, and probably engine internals to be reliable?

First course of action: Figure out what boost your running and put some good gas in it ( I like Avgas)

Second course of action, totally load up the attitude settings and see if you can even get it to run rich.

Third course of action: Check fuel delivery: Secondary injectors, fuel pressure, fuel reg, fuel pump, etc...

I was running 10-11 psi of boost on sunday, tuesday I didn't even hold the throttle long enough to hit that.
Im running a Race gas kit (CPC stage 3) with 4 injectors. And Im using a 110+ MON octane fuel mixed with premium 50/50. Easy good enough fuel.

I should check the injektors tomorrow if I have time. The plan is to dyno it tomorrow but I don't feel safe to put it in the dyno before I have it running good enough to start tuning it..

And yes, the stock fuel reg is remowed. But I haven't verify that the fuel pressure is coming up with boost..

 

[SnowDevil]

if your running 10lbs at sea level you should be running 110 at least. Could go into other things but fuel makes a big difference.

 

[ondast]

I know fuel is important. But I know people running 10psi on straight pumpfuel with no problems. Maybe I have to try streight race fuel in the tank. But Race fuel in Sweden is about 55$/gallon..
And with 50/50 mix it should be around 103 MON.

 

[rpmboy]

at sea level u have to run at least 110 @ 10lbs,why take a chance? If u cant run 110 i would lower the boost

 

[ondast]

at sea level u have to run at least 110 @ 10lbs,why take a chance? If u cant run 110 i would lower the boost

I will add mor fuel or lower the boost to a safe level, but thats not the problem right now.. Problem is that the sled is running super hot EGT temp after a few seconds, and I can't get it to run rich.. Ofcourse I will not run it on the edge just to run high boost. Start low and crank it up later in the season.

 

[Boyko]

I will add mor fuel or lower the boost to a safe level, but thats not the problem right now.. Problem is that the sled is running super hot EGT temp after a few seconds, and I can't get it to run rich.. Ofcourse I will not run it on the edge just to run high boost. Start low and crank it up later in the season.

That is a smart way to start tuning it............... at lower boost. What altitude are ya at? Altitude is very important factor when you are playing with your boost. From sea level to 9000 feet the differance can be as much as 5 psi.

 

[SnowDevil]

Im only saying in the testing phase that way you eliminate any chance. Put a couple gallons in and you will know as soon as you hit the throttle. Best bet is to call CPC find out what the setting should be for that elevation and then try it again if you get it to rich on the lower circuits it is going to have a funny sound to it and not want to transfer to higher rpm's

 

[rpmboy]

i have a tm7 with the same box,areo 53, had alot of problems at first and one of them was the box,had to send it back so they could richen all the circuits up. maybe at that low elevation the box cant give it enough fuel?

 

[ondast]

Im only saying in the testing phase that way you eliminate any chance. Put a couple gallons in and you will know as soon as you hit the throttle. Best bet is to call CPC find out what the setting should be for that elevation and then try it again if you get it to rich on the lower circuits it is going to have a funny sound to it and not want to transfer to higher rpm's

Yeh, you'r right. I will pump out the fueltank and put some streight racefuel in it and see what happens.
I will try to figure out my problems this weekend if the wether gets better.
No fun to be out and tuning in -12F..

i have a tm7 with the same box,areo 53, had alot of problems at first and one of them was the box,had to send it back so they could richen all the circuits up. maybe at that low elevation the box cant give it enough fuel?

I will have to give Dale a call and see what he says. We are only 2 people in sweden running a CPC kit so there is not that much backup and suport nearby.. The box should be programed for my Elevation but who knows. Maybe I got the wrong box but I assume I have the right box and will try all other ways before I start blame the box..

Thanks for all the help guys!!

 

[jijohans]

As I told you before, get an A/F meter so you can see your ratio...

 

[Rms Rydning]

What compression ratio are you running?

Take out exhaustvalves to investigate the pistons.

And a AF metar vill do it much easier to tune. At least when you are inexperienced.
But it should be easy to trow in enough fuel so it runns rough and then go down on the fuel to it barly runns clean.

Take off the EGT, it does only comfuse you if you dont know how to read them. You need a lot of exprerience to use EGT as a reliable source of information, it takes years before you know whats going on.
I had 1800F on my turbo skidoo at cruise..........And about 1200F at WOT.

 

[Daltech]

You should be aware of this, EGT readings could get higher and higher if you are too rich. The engine don`t manage to burn all the fel, and you have fuel burning in your Y-Pipe, giving you high temp readings. When you are at boost, this should happens even easier. That`s why people use wideband lambda to tune turbo engines. As some other stated, I`ll also say, get an AF meter, and you will get some ideas of what`s going on in your engine.

 

[ondast]

You should be aware of this, EGT readings could get higher and higher if you are too rich. The engine don`t manage to burn all the fel, and you have fuel burning in your Y-Pipe, giving you high temp readings. When you are at boost, this should happens even easier. That`s why people use wideband lambda to tune turbo engines. As some other stated, I`ll also say, get an AF meter, and you will get some ideas of what`s going on in your engine.

By looking at the sparkplugs, I don't run rich..!
But I understand what you are saying and thats good info.
I will get an AF meter soon.

What compression ratio are you running?

Take out exhaustvalves to investigate the pistons.

And a AF metar vill do it much easier to tune. At least when you are inexperienced.
But it should be easy to trow in enough fuel so it runns rough and then go down on the fuel to it barly runns clean.

Take off the EGT, it does only comfuse you if you dont know how to read them. You need a lot of exprerience to use EGT as a reliable source of information, it takes years before you know whats going on.
I had 1800F on my turbo skidoo at cruise..........And about 1200F at WOT.

I'm running CPC low compresson head. 10.7-1.

I will do this today. Looking at the sparkplugs, there is no damage, just lean.
Thats exactly what I mean, I should be able to get it to run rich without an AF meter.. Im not stupid.. I know when a sled runs good or bad and if it runs lean or not.

And I will try to ignore the EGT today. I will crank up all settings on the box and see what happens.

As I told you before, get an A/F meter so you can see your ratio...

I will probably do this. But as for now, I don't care if the sled runs perfekt, I just want it to run rich.


THANKS for the help!!!!!!

 

[Rms Rydning]

I can come with some few exsamples of egt readings:

On my M1200 i had normaly 1200F-1250F on a steady climb. Sudenly the magneto drops to 1100F and 2sec later the piston on that side was gone because of detonation. So you can read when you have deto, but then its normaly to late. I learned that I had to quit or adjust the engine so i didnt go above 1240F.

And when I did some adjustment of the engine egt reads diffrent again. If you run lean and put in more fuel the EGT temp goes down.If you are on the ritch side the egt goes up.

If you increase timing or comp or boost the egt normaly goes down...

And so on...Thats why its so much easier to use the a wide band lamda.
But on the other hand when you know your engine and how to use the egt you can tune it harder and be on the melt down edge all the time.

 

[ondast]

I can come with some few exsamples of egt readings:

On my M1200 i had normaly 1200F-1250F on a steady climb. Sudenly the magneto drops to 1100F and 2sec later the piston on that side was gone because of detonation. So you can read when you have deto, but then its normaly to late. I learned that I had to quit or adjust the engine so i didnt go above 1240F.

And when I did some adjustment of the engine egt reads diffrent again. If you run lean and put in more fuel the EGT temp goes down.If you are on the ritch side the egt goes up.

If you increase timing or comp or boost the egt normaly goes down...

And so on...Thats why its so much easier to use the a wide band lamda.
But on the other hand when you know your engine and how to use the egt you can tune it harder and be on the melt down edge all the time.

Thanks! This was good info!

I have been testing a little more today and now I have lower EGT readings. But when you say you smoked a piston in a 100 degree drop Im concerned, this happend to me today also, the mag side droped and it was running on 1 cyl.. went back up to the garage and cheked the sparkplugs and they was fine. Went back out again and it was running on both cylinders.

My EGT readings has been very diferent between the 2 cylinders. The PTO side is reading about 120-160F warmer then the mag side all the time..

I got the sled to run pretty good in low and mid range. But as soon as I got boost, the sled is just cuting out... Did increase the fuelpressure to 46psi, (way to high but I had to try) and then I throwed in my buddy under the hood to read the fuelpressure under boost.. no changes.

I was running 5 psi of boost. Started to think about the wastegate and realized I had the high boost wastegate on. So now I will change the wastegate and see what happens..