My Khaos 165 is not.... doing khaos stuff. Rear skid suspension help

[chickenstixx]

Rode today, 18 inches in most spots, heavy snow.

The front end on this damn thing is heavier than my turbo 4 chicken sleds. Turned in high speed and low speed screws on the front shock, and made rear shock soft as possible in both low and high speed. Even up a steep lil slope i can get the skis off the ground for like 8 feet then it PLANTS them.
Clutching seems good, pulling pretty hard off bottom and 8300 top, settles to ~8150 after a few seconds. With the heavy wet snow i think it's leaving pretty hard, sending snow flying back 20 feet or so. I am 200 lbs geared up, far back on the board as I can go, arms stretched out to the bars... etc.

Is there a way to tell if a big ol' boy put a bigger spring in the rear shock? I am not seeing any part number engraving or color bands. Can I measure the thickness or something of the coils? The preload on the front is like 3/8-1/2 inchr or so, the preload on the rear shock is pretty much light of a preload as you can go.

ALSO: I have to pull this mf'er 4-5 times after it sits, and 2 times if its been sitting 10 minutes or so. Is that normal? my effin' PTEK 800 pulls once at all times after its had its first startup for the whole damn weekend.

 

[mtncat1]

turn up the preload on the front track shock soften the rear track shock a little it will lighten the front end

 

[chickenstixx]

turn up the preload on the front track shock soften the rear track shock a little it will lighten the front end

Preload on front is as far as its supposed to be, and cant take anymore out of rear. Its almost out of threads to lighten preload.

If i jump on the boards i barely move the sled up and down like its really stiff.

not at all like brett turcotts vid comparing the two where they lift instantly on the trail when they pin in.

Can you measure the spring thickness to see if its an RMK pro spring or something

 

[shelbwyo]

I need confirmation of this so called snow...

 

[chickenstixx]

Was up to my knee here, crotch in some deeper drifts

 

[TreeThrasher]

I am of no help to you in request of spring information…I can only say that often riding in the initial dump of wet snow for the year is misleading on setup. The snow doesn’t have any bonded layers to push off of. It simply doesn’t act the same as it does after there is some better depth. So although that may not be your issue, it might be contributing.

Where is this? First I’ve heard of anyone sledding this year!!!

 

[chickenstixx]

I am of no help to you in request of spring information…I can only say that often riding in the initial dump of wet snow for the year is misleading on setup. The snow doesn’t have any bonded layers to push off of. It simply doesn’t act the same as it does after there is some better depth. So although that may not be your issue, it might be contributing.

Where is this? First I’ve heard of anyone sledding this year!!!

big jetstream pounded southern half of utah, most of i15 & their rocky eastern brethern got smushed purdy good monday and tuesday. I hunted zones out using NRCS SNOTEL sites and UDOT cams.

Its fresh heavy 13" on top of 4-6" of saturdays slopp that has frozen 80%
****ty base but being october i dont really have anything to complain about. This is my last issue im trying to sort out.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Rode today, 18 inches in most spots, heavy snow.

The front end on this damn thing is heavier than my turbo 4 chicken sleds. Turned in high speed and low speed screws on the front shock, and made rear shock soft as possible in both low and high speed. Even up a steep lil slope i can get the skis off the ground for like 8 feet then it PLANTS them.
Clutching seems good, pulling pretty hard off bottom and 8300 top, settles to ~8150 after a few seconds. With the heavy wet snow i think it's leaving pretty hard, sending snow flying back 20 feet or so. I am 200 lbs geared up, far back on the board as I can go, arms stretched out to the bars... etc.

Is there a way to tell if a big ol' boy put a bigger spring in the rear shock? I am not seeing any part number engraving or color bands. Can I measure the thickness or something of the coils? The preload on the front is like 3/8-1/2 inchr or so, the preload on the rear shock is pretty much light of a preload as you can go.

ALSO: I have to pull this mf'er 4-5 times after it sits, and 2 times if its been sitting 10 minutes or so. Is that normal? my effin' PTEK 800 pulls once at all times after its had its first startup for the whole damn weekend.

Early season snow with no base is always that way.

The hard starting is unfortunately common in all the 19-21 850’s I’ve been around.

 

[chickenstixx]

Ok shoot. I hope thats it ans easy. Big ass rear spring moght be a 210# insteald of fhe 180#

 

[chickenstixx]

Early season snow with no base is always that way.

The hard starting is unfortunately common in all the 19-21 850’s I’ve been around.

But i mean its a khaos. Supposed to be ligh lt and fluffly. Is not doin dat.

Anyone have ideasa except springs? I think both springs might be too big. I can sit and jump on the tunnel and it bareely moves.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

But i mean its a khaos. Supposed to be ligh lt and fluffly. Is not doin dat.

Anyone have ideasa except springs? I think both springs might be too big. I can sit and jump on the tunnel and it bareely moves.

I spent a couple days on a 21 165 khaos last season. It’s wild wheelie in real snow.

Miles on the sled?

Fresh plugs? (Thinking of the hard starts)

 

[damx]

I think your clutching can be better also, should hold 8300 not drop off to 8150 after a few seconds.

 

[chickenstixx]

I think your clutching can be better also, should hold 8300 not drop off to 8150 after a few seconds.

Rated Operating RPM 8250 +0/- 250

But also keep in mind I cant keep it pinned to see what it does for more than a few seconds. Not enough snow to fully blast across the meadows. I went back and forth a lot finding a path without rocks poking up

 

[Murph]

Turned in high speed and low speed screws on the front shock, and made rear shock soft as possible in both low and high speed.

Clutching seems good, pulling pretty hard off bottom and 8300 top, settles to ~8150 after a few seconds.

Is there a way to tell if a big ol' boy put a bigger spring in the rear shock? I am not seeing any part number engraving or color bands. Can I measure the thickness or something of the coils? The preload on the front is like 3/8-1/2 inchr or so, the preload on the rear shock is pretty much light of a preload as you can go.

ALSO: I have to pull this mf'er 4-5 times after it sits, and 2 times if its been sitting 10 minutes or so. Is that normal? my effin' PTEK 800 pulls once at all times after its had its first startup for the whole damn weekend.

Suspension-- I see the Carl's sticker on the tunnel. Did they re-valve/ re-spring?
-Just to experiment with weight transfer (versus actually riding it this way)
-- open Hi/Lo compression fully on both front and rear shock (not sure on Velocity shock how compression valving may impact rebound valving), and set front shock spring to shortest installed length (most preload) and rear shock to longest spring installed length (least preload), also make sure the limiter strap is Khaos length and at Khaos setting (longer versus ProRMK)

Easiest way to simplify suspension in your mind is Spring is support, valving is speed of movement


Clutching-- miles on motor miles on clutch? Stock clutching or a clutch kit? Elevation?
8300 dropping to 8150 is fairly common BUT it leaves performance on the table. The 850 responds really well to rpm--much better than the 800. 8500 rpm is a whole different animal versus 8150.

The drop to 8150 from 8300 is also fairly common with:
Rock hard 1216 Belt (especially if it hasn't been washed/ deglazed lately)
Dirty clutch sheaves
Excessive belt to sheave clearance
worn belt
worn primary spring
worn weight bushings
or a combination of any of the above items

Hard starting-- no TPS to adjust on 850 motor. Does your 2021 have the latest flash in the ECU? With new spark plugs-- properly gapped? Carbon build up under spark plug caps?

 

[chickenstixx]

Suspension-- I see the Carl's sticker on the tunnel. Did they re-valve/ re-spring?
-Just to experiment with weight transfer (versus actually riding it this way)
-- open Hi/Lo compression fully on both front and rear shock (not sure on Velocity shock how compression valving may impact rebound valving), and set front shock spring to shortest installed length (most preload) and rear shock to longest spring installed length (least preload), also make sure the limiter strap is Khaos length and at Khaos setting (longer versus ProRMK)

Easiest way to simplify suspension in your mind is Spring is support, valving is speed of movement


Clutching-- miles on motor miles on clutch? Stock clutching or a clutch kit? Elevation?
8300 dropping to 8150 is fairly common BUT it leaves performance on the table. The 850 responds really well to rpm--much better than the 800. 8500 rpm is a whole different animal versus 8150.

The drop to 8150 from 8300 is also fairly common with:
Rock hard 1216 Belt (especially if it hasn't been washed/ deglazed lately)
Dirty clutch sheaves
Excessive belt to sheave clearance
worn belt
worn primary spring
worn weight bushings
or a combination of any of the above items

Hard starting-- no TPS to adjust on 850 motor. Does your 2021 have the latest flash in the ECU? With new spark plugs-- properly gapped? Carbon build up under spark plug caps?

Front i can change compression on front shock, front shock (clickers in all way -1) preload is set to most preload, rear shock is set to least preload, rear shock is soft (clickers out all way, in 1 click) as possible.

I will have to check again next snowstorm on RPM. i THINK thats what its dropping to.
100/305 lbs new dalton spring, 66 gram EPI (carls sold me) weights that are actually 66.5 grams. 10,000 ft elevation, 30F air.
New REDLINE GATES belt. Had to adjust deflection once I got home as it was too loose. Was tight & brand new at start of the day.
I have a new OEM poo belt i can try next time.
700 miles on engine. I cleaned clutch and checked rollers and weights are brand new. could reclean sheaves and belt and such.
Belt to sheave clearance when i got home was 0.025. Kinda at the limit but should i tighten it up?

New plugs the day before to load it. Can check them pretty easily I suppose. Compression on the ol' chinese gauge was 115/115 give or take a couple.

I guess I need to call carls and check my front strap. I'm pretty sure the strap is all the way out but cant hurt to check again.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

I am of no help to you in request of spring information…I can only say that often riding in the initial dump of wet snow for the year is misleading on setup. The snow doesn’t have any bonded layers to push off of. It simply doesn’t act the same as it does after there is some better depth. So although that may not be your issue, it might be contributing.

Ill second this.

Being an early season, low snow rider myself I can confirm, your going to get 0 transfer in that kind of snow. the sled pops the skis up right now as there is a moment of traction but then is instantly spinning on the dirt and as that 165 is pushing on a flat dirt surface, not suprising, the skis aren't flying off the ground. They will handle much like how a sled does just ripping across a grass field.

Wait until there is some proper snow depth to make suspension setting changes for your needs. The 165 Khaos is nowhere near as wiley as the 155s but still will float and carry the skis above the snow when on the gas when there is actual traction.

I will say your on the right track for all your adjustments, just tuning for conditions that aren't even really 'conditions'.

 

[Jaynelson]

As others have said - a) very much chasing your tail in 18" of October snow - b) a 165 Khaos is a notably different animal than a 155" Khaos, IF that is your basis of comparison

 

[chickenstixx]

I will say your on the right track for all your adjustments, just tuning for conditions that aren't even really 'conditions'.

ok thanks.

3rd year snowmobiling and while i understand the theory behind this stuff i haven't had the experience yet.

 

[Ultramagnus]

chikenstixx, did you figure you’re setup out? I just picked up a 2021 Khaos 165 for my girlfriend.

We took it out for a first ride. Snow was heavy and wet and we mostly road trail to a cabin and back. A couple meadow’s along the way.

Pretty similar experience to yours. Sled felt pretty soft off the bottom. Didn’t want to lift the ski’s very much. Initiating carves the sled felt heavy.

I was riding my 18 mountain cat, it felt light and nimble in comparison. Could pick the ski’s up with ease in the same conditions and way snappier off the bottom. Felt light and twitchy in comparison to the Khaos.

We hopped back and forth and my Girlfriend said she liked the Kitty Cat better.

I’m pretty surprised by the way this was marketed, and all the reviews. I was expecting a steep learning curve. Over riding the sled and lifting the ski’s with ease.

I checked the factory settings. Adjusted the clickers before the ride and during. By the end of the ride I had it full soft high and low on the IFS and the rear. Front clicked all the way high. Made some difference but nothing huge.

Tried adjusting the belt deflection tighter to make it snappier, but the bolt sheared clean off when I went to loosen it! I should also mention this Khaos came with a head. Shocked by how soft the bottom end is.

I had a 2018 Summit 850 with a SLP
Stage 2 before the Cat. It made the cat feel soft. Now the cat makes the Poo feel weak.

Got it home and backed the preload off the IFS as far as possible, RTS the same. Tightened up the FTS a turn. Haven’t got a chance to go back out yet.

Just wondering if it will take a bit of seat time to get comfortable or if I’m missing something on the setup. Any help would be appreciated.

Just trying to make this thing fun and playful. I will say it felt pretty stable and predictable while on edge. Also felt good in the bumps and whoops on the trail. But we bought this sled trying to make it easy for my lady to play around.

Cheers

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

chikenstixx, did you figure you’re setup out? I just picked up a 2021 Khaos 165 for my girlfriend.

We took it out for a first ride. Snow was heavy and wet and we mostly road trail to a cabin and back. A couple meadow’s along the way.

Pretty similar experience to yours. Sled felt pretty soft off the bottom. Didn’t want to lift the ski’s very much. Initiating carves the sled felt heavy.

I was riding my 18 mountain cat, it felt light and nimble in comparison. Could pick the ski’s up with ease in the same conditions and way snappier off the bottom. Felt light and twitchy in comparison to the Khaos.

We hopped back and forth and my Girlfriend said she liked the Kitty Cat better.

I’m pretty surprised by the way this was marketed, and all the reviews. I was expecting a steep learning curve. Over riding the sled and lifting the ski’s with ease.

I checked the factory settings. Adjusted the clickers before the ride and during. By the end of the ride I had it full soft high and low on the IFS and the rear. Front clicked all the way high. Made some difference but nothing huge.

Tried adjusting the belt deflection tighter to make it snappier, but the bolt sheared clean off when I went to loosen it! I should also mention this Khaos came with a head. Shocked by how soft the bottom end is.

I had a 2018 Summit 850 with a SLP
Stage 2 before the Cat. It made the cat feel soft. Now the cat makes the Poo feel weak.

Got it home and backed the preload off the IFS as far as possible, RTS the same. Tightened up the FTS a turn. Haven’t got a chance to go back out yet.

Just wondering if it will take a bit of seat time to get comfortable or if I’m missing something on the setup. Any help would be appreciated.

Just trying to make this thing fun and playful. I will say it felt pretty stable and predictable while on edge. Also felt good in the bumps and whoops on the trail. But we bought this sled trying to make it easy for my lady to play around.

Cheers

Sounds like the previous owner might have it setup poorly. (Clutching and loose belt deflection)