My Dragon Saga, 2008

[gerrman]

I am a big reader of snow west (only posted once?) and now I must pass on my experience this past half season with my snow checked 2008 D8 155. Yes it arrived late, Jan 2, 2008. First ride, 40 miles. I was excited, what a different feel coming off a 2004 800 159 RMK. Now the problems/issues start. Second through fifth rides, iced up drivers. Polaris know about this problem in early Jan. Only fix was to remove the center driver. As well, the mid range bog shows up. I live in Terrace BC and we ride at 2500-5500 feet. Bog did dissappear at about 2800 feet, but what a pain in the neck. It has been there through all three reflashes. Only with a Polaris test ECU box in April did it finally dissappear. Have to get the new box next Nov. The need for a tight track is also a concern. Driver noise going down hill and the vibration. Another pain in the neck. I saved the best for last, I took the motor out at 605 miles. Both pistons (one with a burn hole just below the ring), both cylinders (therefore the mono-block) and the crank. Thank god for warranty.
Put the sled away for the season with only 750 miles on it.

Now for the good news. This is not a complaining thread, but simply info on what has happened to me. I did for a very short moment at the end of the season consider trading, but throught the money would be better spent on fixing what perhaps are first year gemlins. I love the sled and the handling, but it is down on power (at least here in the Terrace riding area, unique weather, lower altitude, high humidity and varying snow conditions). Therefore here is what changes I have made and are going to make. Any input/comments would be appreciated.

Have done the following during the season:
Gearing 39/42, Helix 64-42/44-.46, Belly Buster 64, Stock primary and secondary spring, Delrin rings, SLP air kit and vents, Fabcraft air chambers for front shocks @ 210 lbs. Pulls 8150-8250 rpm.

Summer projects:
Install Avid Extrovert drivers 2.52 pitch, change track to a 159 Camoplast series 4-2.125" 2.52 pitch (I now have both), set the rear skid back 1.25 inchs to accomodate the new track and cut the rails a little.This should free up some horsepower (5-8 hopefully) SLP or HPS can?? Not sure which one.

Thanks for any positve input.

 

[Makaveli_Rev]

I'll race you on my pretty much stock XP when your done

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

I am a big reader of snow west (only posted once?) and now I must pass on my experience this past half season with my snow checked 2008 D8 155. Yes it arrived late, Jan 2, 2008. First ride, 40 miles. I was excited, what a different feel coming off a 2004 800 159 RMK. Now the problems/issues start. Second through fifth rides, iced up drivers. Polaris know about this problem in early Jan. Only fix was to remove the center driver. As well, the mid range bog shows up. I live in Terrace BC and we ride at 2500-5500 feet. Bog did dissappear at about 2800 feet, but what a pain in the neck. It has been there through all three reflashes. Only with a Polaris test ECU box in April did it finally dissappear. Have to get the new box next Nov. The need for a tight track is also a concern. Driver noise going down hill and the vibration. Another pain in the neck. I saved the best for last, I took the motor out at 605 miles. Both pistons (one with a burn hole just below the ring), both cylinders (therefore the mono-block) and the crank. Thank god for warranty.
Put the sled away for the season with only 750 miles on it.

Now for the good news. This is not a complaining thread, but simply info on what has happened to me. I did for a very short moment at the end of the season consider trading, but throught the money would be better spent on fixing what perhaps are first year gemlins. I love the sled and the handling, but it is down on power (at least here in the Terrace riding area, unique weather, lower altitude, high humidity and varying snow conditions). Therefore here is what changes I have made and are going to make. Any input/comments would be appreciated.

Have done the following during the season:
Gearing 39/42, Helix 64-42/44-.46, Belly Buster 64, Stock primary and secondary spring, Delrin rings, SLP air kit and vents, Fabcraft air chambers for front shocks @ 210 lbs.

Summer projects:
Install Avid Extrovert drivers 2.52 pitch, change track to a 159 Challenger series 4-2.125" 2.52 pitch (I now have both), set the rear skid back 1.25 inchs to accomodate the new track. Gain some? attack angle. This should free up some horsepower (5-8 hopefully) SLP or HPS can?? Not sure which one.

This should fix the tight track issue, get closer to the claimed 154 HP, climb better and further without powering out.

This is my story and I look forward to a much anticipated and early start to next season.

My gut feeling is thats too much helix on start out..mine wont pull that much in deep powder(rpm's inconsistant), talk to your dealer..see if he will let you run the slp single..it is a big improvement over stock...I run 62/42/.46..venting helps alot as well....according to my dealer the current reflashes have improved the high alt guys but didnt do much for us low alt guys..but polaris has a low alt reflash(sounds like your test box) coming this fall and it is really gonna help....

 

[Ollie]

I'll race you on my pretty much stock XP when your done

Bring 10 spare belts.

 

[RMK935VA]

Hey Doo guys, find your own thread and talk about burned down motors, busted cranks, short belt life and all of the problems that you are having or know of others who are having or have had those problems. I will take the race with the XP on my mostly stock Dragon any day too!

As far as the issues mentioned above, a really good dealer who knows how to set the sled up is critical. I have had very few problems with my Dragon! It has over 1300 miles on it. I am probably going to do a Carl's 860 BB kit this fall and put SLP Powder Pros on it and a Camoplast Challenger Extreme track which is going to be available in 2.86 pitch this fall. I may put the 2009 sway bar system on it too. It is supposed to be an improvement.

My biggest complaint is the stock skis but every manufacturer has that problem IMO. Power has never been a problem. I pulled a stock XP on the lake by a long ways and I could pull a stock Ski Doo 1000 too. The XP is a hell of a good mountain sled but I prefer the way the Dragon handles. Everybody has their favorites.

 

[Makaveli_Rev]

Yeah shi, my sled is blowing belts and motors left and right

 

[RMK935VA]

Maybe you guys in Utah have something we don't. Oh yeah, that is right, you have bad beer! Our holy water has more kick than Utah beer! Go somewhere else like the Doo site.

 

[Makaveli_Rev]

Ski-Doo forum?! I'm a polaris guy, i just got to give props to ski-doo, when i totalled my dragon late in the season, i picked up a xp for dirt cheap to ride for the rest of the year, and i love the sled, its one heck of a climber in the stock form. A XP on a lake RMK935? haha, i have got pulled by a 600 HO polaris on a road on my xp, Steep and deep of utah is where it is at! Thats a whole dif story then a freakin lake.

My cousin (ride with every time and spend alot of time on his sleds) has this sled and i had an 07 RMK and here is what we found, i won't be much help but i will give you all i can.

HPS can over SLP, no question about it. Couple that with an SLP pipe for best results

I ran all different combo's of springs, weights, helix's, etc, and had the most consistant and best results with stock. Cousin runs a SLP spring, pink and blue i think, and has messed with the weights, and there was an improvement there

Boss Nos works like crap on the CFI and on the HO polaris motors, A shot of bondockers would give you what you needed to crest the xp's, it did for my cousin atleast.

As far as ski's i like the stock ones. I need new ones now though because mine are bent in from being towed out 3 times, i will prob go with sly dogs, or USI's.

Reeds worked well on the 07, i don't know about the 08, but on the 700 CFI they actually make a difference, surprisingly.

Last off, vent it, and DO the Tri-City Baja Bumper, I would still be riding my dragon if i woulda bought that, instead my dragon is totalled. I'm sure there will be alot of more useful info poppin up, just thought i'd share my experience with the sled, fun chassis!

 

[sledhead ut]

Makaveli: You need to design a Kevlar hood. Oh and watch out for overhead flying objects.
I wish my wife could have raced you before seasons end. Would have been fun to watch you get beat by a girl.

 

[Makaveli_Rev]

haha i know! Why do you think i was laying low during late april?! your wife is killer dude, same with her sled!

 

[RMK935VA]

I have the vents and the TCP bumper. I have Fox Floats on the front and Zero Pros on the rear. I have the SLP pipe, can and airbox mods, V Force reeds, Carl's clutching and additional intake venting in various places. I just bought a set of Powder Pros. I am going to put one of the new 2.86 Camoplast Challenger Extreme tracks on it and either the Carl's 860 BB kit or porting and twins. It will run really good then.

One of my friends has an XP and that sled was a hell of a mountain climber right out of the box. However, the PTO end of the crankshaft sheared off down in a deep hole at about 9,300 feet in the Sawtooths. It was a serious pain in the *** to get it out of there but we did it. He had a 2007 that blew up three times and had other problems as well. The XP is incredibly light! I am jealous of that. I also wish that Polaris had the 16" wide track. I think that the track width makes a pretty big difference.

I am not going to grief you anymore about being on the wrong site. However, Utah beer still sucks!

 

[R J]

Well sorry for your problems but I would take all that garbage off it and put it back to stock and you will be better off that is for sure. Most people mod these things and it ends up turning out worse. True the mods you did had nothing to do with the bog or pistons but seriously, how you can tell about power when you put all that crap on?

I have been around long enough to know most mods, maybe 95% of them are pure junk. You just have to know how to weed out the good from the bad IMO.

 

[sledhead ut]

Well sorry for your problems but I would take all that garbage off it and put it back to stock and you will be better off that is for sure. Most people mod these things and it ends up turning out worse. True the mods you did had nothing to do with the bog or pistons but seriously, how you can tell about power when you put all that crap on?

I have been around long enough to know most mods, maybe 95% of them are pure junk. You just have to know how to weed out the good from the bad IMO.

Well R.J. you need to come out west and watch some of our garbage run circles around stock sleds. Oh, they climb pretty good too. No offense but todays bolt on mods are getting pretty sweet and reliable. Just my opinion.

 

[R J]

Very true, but the majority of them are nothing but wasted money and the only reason they keep selling is because people brag about the stuff to support their decesion.

If someone uses this site, they can figure out what works and what doesn't very quickly and it seems the first guys mods weren't that popular from what I have read.

 

[winter brew]

Very true, but the majority of them are nothing but wasted money and the only reason they keep selling is because people brag about the stuff to support their decesion.

If someone uses this site, they can figure out what works and what doesn't very quickly and it seems the first guys mods weren't that popular from what I have read.

Alot of truth to your first sentence RJ.

 

[gerrman]

Was hoping for positive responses. Not interested in brand bashing or bragging. We have six D8`s in our area and all six have three common unresolved problems: Mid Range Bog, Track/Driver issues and the 800 motors are DOWN on POWER. Changes to my machine are positive and not without thought and input from others including knowledgable individuals on these threads. (more helix work next season, ran out of time this season).
Another question through, what is wrong with installing Avid drivers to help loosen up the track. The new track is a consequence of the drivers and not wanting to cut the rails to much. Please, lets get some positive feedback, ideas, suggestions. Thanks.

 

[Nelson]

so what your saying is there was nothing wrong with your track your just switching due to the drivers? 159 your not really gaining to much and moving the skid seems like it would be a lot of work why would you not just keep the track or upgrade to the 163? you have to cut the rails no matter what and avid can make the drivers for that track which is a 2.86 pitch i think while adding anti-stab wheels you won't have to worry about stabbing the track that is what i did to my dragon.

 

[Ron]

Was hoping for positive responses. Not interested in brand bashing or bragging. We have six D8`s in our area and all six have three common unresolved problems: Mid Range Bog, Track/Driver issues and the 800 motors are DOWN on POWER. Changes to my machine are positive and not without thought and input from others including knowledgable individuals on these threads. (more helix work next season, ran out of time this season).
Another question through, what is wrong with installing Avid drivers to help loosen up the track. The new track is a consequence of the drivers and not wanting to cut the rails to much. Please, lets get some positive feedback, ideas, suggestions. Thanks.

I know this will start an argument as it always does but here goes anyway....Polaris installed the center extro on the 163 Dragons vs involute extro's like the Avid's or Summit's because of loss of performance with extro's. The extro will hit the rails so you cut the rail or move the suspension back to make them work. The need for anti-stabs when you do this is your first clue to the problem. As you move the rails back you create a void between the driver & the rail...track follows the driver creating a small distortion/loop in the track. This reduces performance and the only way to measure the loss is by bench mark testing with two identical sleds before & after.
Somewhat the same issue for running the track too loose. A tight track is always faster than a loose one unless you have inadequate lubrication for your speed & that may confuse some as hyfax heat is diagnosed as the "track is too tight". A loose track grows rounder at speed & that costs performance. It's possible to get your track too tight but that results in rolling resistance that was easy to detect on older sleds. The engine braking in the clutching makes rolling resistance harder to detect. I set my track tension in the snow by tighting til I encounter rolling resistance & then back off a turn or two.
A track may seem tight in the shop but remember that when you sit on your sled the rear axle drops reducing track tension. As you change preload on rear suspension springs you also change track tension.
I'm lucky to have a dealer that has tested, I wonder how many consumers test. I think most just make the assumption that looser is better because it seems logical.

Other issues you mention:
The icing problem with the center extro on the 163 Dragons is strange. I hope that Polaris figures something out for 09. It wasn't a problem for many of us so it must be related to unique snow conditions.
Ratcheting track is too loose.
Down on power may be related to the fuel mapping. SLP & Carl's have some mods available for more HP.

Hate to see you go to the trouble & expense of adding extro's if it will reduce your performance. Before spending your money on extro's give Carl's Cycle a call & see what they recommend.

 

[RMK935VA]

RJ, have you ever rode a Carl's mod sled before? I suggest that you do it before passing judgment on mod sleds and how they run. I can assure you that everything they do (100%) makes the sled better than it was before. It is not cheap but it works and is reliable. I have had several 800s (Gen 2 and Edge) that were modified by Carl's. All of them were significant improvements over stock. The 935 was incredible, almost beyond belief. It impressed everyone who rode it or watched it in action. My Dragon 800 with light modifications, so far, is light years better than a stock sled. I don't think you know of what you speak.

 

[AndrettiDog]

I'll race you on my pretty much stock XP when your done

Doorknob. The guy comes on for ideas about his Dragon and you show up wanting to race him.